The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

@JHM: Hm, they're a tad gushy, and the "Rie Kugimiya point" natter is completely unnecessary, but I don't think this is a P5 issue.

edited 30th May '12 11:37:59 AM by Komodin

I have to admit, there's nothing that will convince me that Komodin's not a blue cartoon hedgehog.

As for Shana Clone, most of the 'relationships' in that page even if they are romantic tend to be rather chaste and never get more than a hug and maybe a kiss and tends to get more play as violent than sexualized. The character type also rarely actually acts like children.

On the internet, everyone thinks you're a hedgehog. I think Shana Clone is OK, as the examples look clean.

& Yeah, that's why I didn't flag it outright, but I still think that a bit of clean-up may be necessary, and I don't think that I have the expertise necessary to do so.

edited 30th May '12 11:43:14 AM by JHM

Re: Sky Girls Ep. 17

This will ultimately be the deciding factor, at least for the TV anime. Let's see how bad things get. So far, verdict rests at giving this the same treatment as Strike Witches, but I'd rather not wind up screwing myself by overlooking something.

The OVA will be treated separately.

Update the first: OK, little girl in a skintight bodysuit (see @4111 for image-she's the short one) is not kosher. Also boding ill is a crash-landing onto a tropical island.

Update the final: Doesn't seem like any significant difference between amt of fanservice between Strike Witches and Sky Girls. The damning thing here is the source. Wheras SW had most of the fanservice coming from the older-looking girls, here it seems like the balance is reversed. Particularly damning was a bath scene featuring the grade-school looking one that, as far as I could tell, served no real purpose (other than, you know, fanservice). To their credit, it was fairly mild, but, still, served no purpose as far as story goes.

Side note: The little brat does stuff that should have gotten her in serious shit for insubordination. Also, for a military unit, they are rather lacking in basic survival skills.

Verdict to follow after OVA.

Re: Sky Girls OVA:

Ok, seriously? Opening with a blatant ass shot? Goddamnitsomuch.

Update the first: Fanservice is ratcheted up a couple notches. At least the little brat ain't around. Art style is as questionable as ever. Much of fanservice is still focused on the younger-looking girls.

Update the second: Now they are blatantly looking up her skirt-jacket-thing. Really, have some decency, JC Staff.

Update the final: More blatant fanservice via suspect camera angles, overly-long lingering on breasts, ass, crotch, etc.

Verdict: Borderline at best

Recommended course of action: Definitely clean and put a ban on discussing the OVA on the page, whatever else happens. Possibly lock or stublock.

Reasoning:

Pro:

• Definitely not porn
• Comparable level of fanservice to Strike Witches, which was a clean-and-keep
• TV anime was just borderline
• Grade-school looking girl was minimally sexualized

Con:

• Art style makes the girls who are sexualized look dubiously-of-age, including at least one scene featuring a grade-school-looking girl
• Unlike SW, majority of fanservice seems to come from the younger-looking cast members
• Seinen demographic Disclaimer
  While disputed, other works from same magazine leads me to believe Wikipedia's listing as seinen (Wolfs Rain in particular). See also post 4137 below

As has been stated before (both in this thread and elsewhere) actual age is irrelevant. Apparent age is what matters. Not that that bath scene being relatively mild excuses the skintight body suit and suspect camera angles.

See here, here, here, and here for thought process.

Apologies for the Wall of Text

edited 30th May '12 9:30:20 PM by tdgoodrich1

Particularly damning was a bath scene featuring the grade-school looking one that, as far as I could tell, served no real purpose (other than, you know, fanservice). To their credit, it was fairly mild, but, still, served no purpose as far as story goes.

What's the character's actual age?

(Also, if it's mild, should we be cutting a work based on it? I mean, Token Mini-Moe generally implies a mild sexualization, but we don't cut works for that.)

Hi everyone I've been a TV Tropes user since '08, I never been really active in the forum and I only usually updated tiny bits and pieces and correct grammar errors so I think I missed this whole Google content thingy and I just knew it when I tried to look up Fifty Shadesof Gray.

I'm deeply disturbed by this new protocol, I always thought that TV Tropes is an informal community about cataloging tropes just for fun but suddenly we've became "Stop Having Fun" Guys with all these protocols and reviews. I never really understand the power structure and the revenue system of this site so I'm sorry for my naivety and by no means I'm trying to start a Flame War but I just want to ask was there a backlash from the community when this initiative was launched? I don't have time to look up and read all 166 pages,

Thank you very much, please don't ban me again I'm not trying to start a Flame War I'm just asking questions

Particularly damning was a bath scene featuring the grade-school looking one that

I once watched an American made documentary on Japan I picked up at my library that featured a nude bath scene with children.

Hm, so it was sexualizing the girl in question...?

There was a backlash, but it was mostly paranoia fueled. It's cooled now.

@Catbert That's relevant how exactly? These statements are all within context of Sky Girls. Besides, a documentary and work of fiction are two very different beasts. Apples and oranges, pal.

Really? Thanks, Kuro. I'll add a note to my Wall of Text's disclaimer

edited 30th May '12 1:49:56 PM by tdgoodrich1

About Sky Girl's demographic; the manga was in Monthly Magazine Z, I also think is probably Seinen, but I think it's more of a younger Seinen, if that makes sense, since it also ran the Metroid manga, which had furigana readings for the kanji, something Shounen and Shojo manga do. But it also ran manga like Wolfs Rain and FLCL and scans I found of a Gigantor manga it recently ran didn't have furigana.

Nevermind.

edited 30th May '12 1:48:45 PM by FinalStarman

I think the question is: Was said girl in the bath sexualized and used as fanservice, or was it more innocent and not fansevice-y?

Okay, so we should roll with it being in the Seinen demographic, yes?

For Sky Girls, yes. For Sky Girls, prolly not due to [1] and [2]

edited 30th May '12 2:00:03 PM by SeptimusHeap

Yes, it's harder sometimes to figure out the demographic for anime. Mostly you have to go off the time it aired and the manga or novel demographic.

Honestly, it's questionable, but from what I've heard (and the pictures I looked up regarding it), Sky Girls is questionable in the same sense as Strike Witches, so I say we just leave it alone.

In fact, on that note, I have to admit TV Tropes has been getting a lot less fun and gotten a far heavier "Stop Having Fun" Guys atmosphere, upon reflection.

Ironically, if we're trying to avoid porn, I think we're shooting ourselves in the foot, because it's basically all we talk about now.

edited 30th May '12 1:55:03 PM by Rpgingmaster

@Kuro Bara Hime 4139:

I'm inclined to believe fanservice, since as I noted, it served no real purpose. Then again, I tend to fall on a more conservative side than others, so take this statement with a grain of salt.

<off-topic>Agreed. While I hadn't been terribly active prior to the P5 and cleanup threads, I can say this is a hell of a lot more interesting to me than, say, moving wicks and the like. </off-topic>

edited 30th May '12 2:02:31 PM by tdgoodrich1

Well, perhaps it's just my love for getting shit done, but, for me, this site has gotten more fun since the establishment of the content policy.

@Rpgingmaster: Well, this is the Content Violations subforum. There's plenty of non-porn discussion on other subforums of this wiki.

I hope you'll forgive me if I respectfully disagree, but if you feel the change is for the better, more power to you.

Anyway, on that very note, ever since watching the latest episode of Nyarko San, I've toyed with the idea of making an H-Game page for True Love 95, which got a shout out in the latest episode, but the frankly draconian rules we have now have me terrified it'll be cut despite the fact said game is actually pretty complex and fairly tasteful, especially given the genre, not to mention a Cult Classic.

edited 30th May '12 2:04:56 PM by Rpgingmaster

@4130: It might depend on how you're defining your terms, but I'm pretty sure I've seen an example where a character whose apparent age was adult, but who was mentally immature was given as a reason to cut something. So I'm not sure you can call actual age irrelevant, just that it's not an automatic defense.

^^ I don't believe True Love would be a problem. Nobody there is underaged, though one girl is treated like she is.

Regardless, the rules are so draconian I've decided against making the page, so thanks for the endorsement, but I'm not risking it winding up on the Content Violation Page regardless how clean I or anyone else keeps the work page.

In fact, I'm not comfortable with the new censorship policies, and I never was. I believe they are, at absolute best, a necessary evil I abide by because those are the rules, but they do not address in any meaningful way preventing the incident that triggered this recent change's genesis.

Regardless, I'm a team player, so I'll follow the new policies, so since the new policies are not conducive to making a page on any type of H-Game, I'd rather not watch my hard work burn on the funeral pyre of the Content Violations Report with three devil heads.

edited 30th May '12 2:12:25 PM by Rpgingmaster