Page Restoration Petitions

How many times am I gonna have to say this? Provide a reason as to why, and then we'll talk.

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop "I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen

Because the main article was restored.

edited 27th Aug '12 12:43:04 PM by Ramidel

Nevermind.

edited 27th Aug '12 12:49:35 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

It's the principle of the thing really. If I remember correctly, the original subpage entry had nothing objectionable (and if it did I can just fix it).

And I kind of asked about it awhile ago, and my post was pretty much ignored.

Sorry if my post disrupted something.

edited 27th Aug '12 12:59:05 PM by universalperson

Concerning Naughty Tentacles, I think [1] is a good argument.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

"So at the very least Tentacle Rope is a Super-Trope to Naughty Tentacles?"

Eh, not really. It's quite possible for tentacles to be 'naughty' without restraining or binding anything. (I seem to recall a fair number of non-porn invocations involving them not even being used for -anything-, just being an ominous presence.)

"So... the time has come for you to meet your demise..."

More like Sister Trope that can overlap.

Yeah, you don't have to have the tentacles actually binding any part of the victim's body/limbs in order to be "naughty" — they could be just slithering all over it without actually impeding the victim's movement (well, beyond blocking any route to escape, or at least get way from said tentacles' reach) — especially if the tentacles end with huge sucker-mouths.

edited 28th Aug '12 5:49:23 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

^This discussion seems to be more appropriate for Trope Talk than here. It's about a trope's definition, not the restoration.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

How about we take it to trope talk, work out a definition that clearly points out that it is not necessarily pornographic or even particularly explicit, get it a new name (though I hate to do so) and then bring it back here for the P5 to judge?

Sounds like a plan to me.

EDIT: "Lord Shiva, Savior of Cookies"?

edited 28th Aug '12 4:04:27 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Okay, then I'll take it over there.

And of course. What else?

Edit: Trope Talk thread for those who wish to discuss the restoration.

edited 29th Aug '12 4:48:43 PM by Arha

I wish to request that the Gor page be unlocked, or at least have its examples restored.

Let's state the obvious. The Gor series is loaded with Author Appeal and some of its readers read it mainly for that purpose. However, that also describes many more mainstream works. By that same criteria, the Twilight saga should be locked.

On this thread, Bobby G states, 'By porn, we do in fact mean porn - not "explicit" or "NSFW", but "porn"'.

I've only read the first five books in the series, and I've heard it gets worse as it goes on, but the books I've read are not pornographic. Yes, the infamous female slavery appears, but as far as I remember there are no graphic depictions of sex. For all the slave-girls he encounters, the protagonist is practically a Chaste Hero. As I said, the Author Appeal does exist, but the books belong in the Planetary Romance genre, not the porn genre.

I'm not going to spend too much time defending the literary merit of the books, but there's more to them than Fetish Fuel. The third book had one of the better thought-out depictions of an alien race with a different society and psychology that I've seen. The world-building in general is not terrible. Some people may disagree, but either way the quality of the writing is not what's on trial here.

Now, maybe the later books in the series belong in the porn genre, I haven't read them, so I don't know. Still, I think there's still much to be discussed about the tropes that appear in the first few definitely non-pornographic books. I find it ironic that the moderation has stripped out all the discussion of the plot that existed in the examples, and left only the description that focuses on the fetishism. It's understandable that people exaggerate the slavery aspect, because that's what critics tend to emphasize, but if you read them you'll find that the plot is the main focus, and gets much more screen time.

So, in summary, I feel that this series, whatever you may feel about the quality of the writing or the author's view on women, is not pornographic and has many fine examples of tropes to offer.

edited 3rd Sep '12 10:00:56 AM by Topazan

The first five or so aren't bad. The next five are starting to toe the line. But there's a point in that particular series where the narrative crumbles and it just becomes porn. It's a slow decline, yes, but there's a reason that later books never wound up on bookstore shelves like the first ones did.

I personally think it should have tropes but be locked and moderated, but that's just me.

edited 3rd Sep '12 10:43:28 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

We could employ a Rance solution there: make the Gor page only include tropes on the ten-ish non-porn books, and leave an editing note not to add tropes from "Porny Book 11" on.

On the basis of the arguments earlier in this thread, I have to agree with the "examples restored but enduring lock". That work is infamous for its treatment of sexuality, and while it isn't porn at the start, we don't need to let the commentary on the sexuality take over the page.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Looking at the history of that page, I don't see anything particularly objectionable in the tropes that existed prior to the lock. Almost all the tropes concerned the plot. In what way do you predict that commentary on sexuality will take over the page?

Restricting examples to the first X books in the series sounds fair enough to me. Do we know at which point bookstores stopped displaying the books?

I'm not entirely certain honestly. I didn't read that far in the series. It's not very good.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Then where did you get your information? Maybe we can ask that person.

The problem with Gor is not so much the books themselves as the associated fandom that's obsessed with the sexuality of the works. We have lots of pages that are locked because of fandoms (or hatedoms). I think leaving Gor locked is definitely the best plan. It's not like you can't just go ask for edits, like with any other locked page.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Most of the people aren't asking for it to be unlocked, just the examples restored.

Personally, I'm thinking about it, but I'm going to watch and wait a bit longer before making a decision. Busy day anyway (labor day and such).

I think I would be okay with an example restoration, as long as it remains locked after clean-up of any overly prurient examples necessary.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!

Of course I would consider that better than nothing, but why does it need to be locked? Prior to the lock, the examples did NOT contain an excess of commentary on the sexuality, in fact it contained less than the description that was kept. As far as I know, the fandom did NOT cause any trouble, nor did the hatedom. If one of these things happens in the future, we can deal with it at that point. Innocent until proven guilty.

This series has a large hatedom for understandable reasons, but this wiki should try to stay objective. Until we hear from someone who has read through the series, or at least up to the point where it allegedly crosses the line, we need to take what we hear with a grain of salt.

But, if it is locked, who do we ask when we want to add examples to it?

You'd go here.

I'd support restoring examples, as long as they stay clean AND the page remains under lock.

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop "I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen

... Eh, what Meeble and Goodrich said applies to me, too.

Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.