Duplicate Image: Replacement Scrappy

It also appears on WesternAnimation.The Fantastic Four. I think this could have also gone under, "Just a Face and a Caption," since the picture doesn't show any of HERBIE's unlikeable qualities.

edited 8th Apr '12 2:56:38 PM by dsneybuf

I would think that replacing the Human Torch with a robot would understandably piss off fans.

Well, you have to know who he's replacing to understand that.

But the thing is that someone unfamiliar with the Fantastic 4 wouldn't even know that someone was replaced from just looking at the picture. And even then, the caption doesn't even make clear who got cut out. EDIT: Freaking ninjas...

Maybe a picture with the actual team above the current one could work.

edited 8th Apr '12 3:26:25 PM by Elbruno

I think we can assume a certain degree of literacy in the audience of TV Tropes. Most critics do when making their reviews and commentaries. We shouldn't assume our Viewers Are Morons.

How about we add a picture of the normal FF, so that the two images together show the replacement part of the trope?

Knowing about a franchise or not, is not a measure of intelligence.

edited 8th Apr '12 4:25:44 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm not talking about intellect but familiarity with pop culture. For instance, movie reviewers will make references to other movies and assume their readers know what they're talking about. Likewise, doctors use the names of people when describing diseases (Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc) - and their target audience is the entire population. As such, I think we can assume that most people will recognise who the Fantastic Four (being a popular comic and relatively recent movie franchise) are. And if they don't, let those individuals raise the issue themselves rather than trying to accommodate people who may or may not exist.

Remember: are demographic is already biased. People checking the site are the kind of people people who are already savvy on the subject of recognising different shows/movies/comics/etc.

edited 8th Apr '12 4:36:27 PM by peasant

That still doesn't mean thinking Viewers Are Morons for not knowing about the Fantastic Four. In fact we have Fan Myopia for assuming people must know about a show.

edited 8th Apr '12 4:37:58 PM by DragonQuestZ

Fan Myopia is for assuming a work is more popular than it actually is. It does not include works that actually are hugely popular. For instance, I think it's fair to assume that most people here would have a working knowledge of the Star Wars movies (not the Expanded Universe), the ability to recognise the faces of the more popular superheroes in Marvel (e.g. Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, the Fantastic Four, Wolverine, etc) and DC (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc), have heard of Twilight and Doctor Who, etc.

It does not, of course, say they have to have in-depth knowledge of these works or of niched works (e.g. Nostalgia Critic, virtually all mangas, etc); just some level of understanding of what's 'mainstream'.

edited 8th Apr '12 4:48:17 PM by peasant

The image should demonstrate a trope without requiring any actual knowledge of a work. This image does not do that. The popularity of the work is unrelated.

"It does not include works that actually are hugely popular."

Actually, it does, because for one thing, we can't all agree on what is hugely popular.

Fan Myopia explicitly does include works that one believes are hugely popular, because by definition a Fan Myopic person will think a work is "hugely popular" when in fact it isn't.

For example, European tropers will likely be unfamiliar with Captain America, for obvious reasons.

Yet, a lot of trope pages feature pics that require knowledge of the work in question; many of which the higher-ups have deemed untouchable. For instance, Evil Twin requires the reader to recognise The Muppets, Streisand Effect to recognise Barbra Streisand's house, etc etc etc. Then, there are trope names such as The Kirk, The Spock and The McCoy, which require the reader to be familiar with the group dynamic in Star Trek.

Speaking of Captain America, I would argue that Europeans ARE aware of him, especially in light of the recent movie.

edited 8th Apr '12 5:10:48 PM by peasant

Those are admin-fiat. They are there because Fast Eddie says so. They do not apply in this argument.

I don't think citing examples that explicitly violate normal guidelines helps a case for defining normal guidelines.

Also, "this other thing is also bad" is not a point in favor of the first thing.

(1) that's really not a lot of pages, (2) just because the "higher-ups" can make such a decision doesn't mean that you can, and (3) most of the pages you note should indeed get an Image Pickin' thread to improve their image.

edited 8th Apr '12 5:12:09 PM by Spark9

Well what about just putting up a Fantastic Four image with the standard 4 then the current one. I mean getting replaced with a robot.... that cant be liked at all, period.

I dont even read the comic and that rubs me the wrong way. (Its not even a Robot Girl.)

edited 8th Apr '12 5:18:39 PM by Raso

Yes.

Agree with pairing the actual FF with the current...is there another image of that cartoon that could work as well for the work page?

A comparison would probably be the only choice.

Fantastic Four may be popular, but I can with certainty name two of them (though I would be able to pick them all out from a list), an that's only because of TV Tropes. They're not famous enough to avoid JAFAAC.

I replaced the image on the cartoon's page...turns out there's actually DVD collections of it.

Current page image doesn't show who was replaced with whom, that the character replaced was even gone at all, why this replacement was a scrappy, or even that there is a role being filled. Yes it's the Fantastic Four, but someone unfamiliar with the four might not know which 3 characters were originally there, especially as the Thing doesn't wear a shirt.

I suggest this page goes imageless. I can't really think of a good way to convey the trope in an image, and don't see it as particularly useful.

Totally disagree. You can get by pretty easily with some compare-and-contrast, frankly. Besides, we're trying to avoid cutting images if there's a meager chance they can be redeemed.

Speaking of redeeming with a comparison, here's a stab at it.

Ba-dump-ump bump