The Masquerade: tired cliche or inevitable reality?

I feel like masquerades kind of increase in implausibility relative to how many people are involved. I mean, if the world has taught me anything is that large groups of people generally don't agree 100% on any topic. So if there are tons and tons of people involved in upholding this secret, what if a decent proportion just go "I think it would be more fun to *insert masquerade-destroying interaction with the normal people here*" ??? (And some people are just really big on "share the knowledge" and that sort of thing) >_> Well, I guess depending on the skills of the people involved, you could lock them up somewhere, kill them, or brainwash them to agree with upholding the masquerade, but what if someone gets away? What if killing the people who don't want the masquerade anymore makes them a martyr so now even more people want to get involved in masquerade breaking?

Though writing an Unmasqued World, I find writing law really troublesome. The only thing I was sure of right off the bat was that vampires are counted by chronological age so all the 100-year-old vamps that look like teenagers aren't allowed to bang teenagers and the vampires are slowly starting to sound like undocumented illegal aliens because they've been counted dead and have been using Fake I Ds from back when the masquerade was in place.

edited 9th Apr '12 7:17:26 PM by Kaxen

What about in cases where The Masquerade is kept secret via parallel world ala Digimon? That's usually what I think of when I think of a Masquerade.

I suppose those aren't as implausible depending on the accessibility of going to a parallel world.

...though didn't that secret come out because the villain made the sky all funky? And the digi-world and the real world kind of smash into each other in other instances, if I recall correctly.

This needs qualification. If one out of every ten people could break the laws of physics, things might change, but as pointed out earlier, the third of Americans that believe in ghosts don't live radically different existences because of it.

I agree that the "parallel world" idea tends to make much more sense in theory, though I can't think of many works where I've encountered it that aren't just straight Trapped in Another World/Summon Everyman Hero type things.

Feo: Yes, there are cases where strong, consistent world-building isn't necessary and the best thing to do is give a big Hand Wave and say "Screw it, I know it wouldn't really work but this is how I want it to go." (I love how in Charlie And The Chocolate Factory, whenever anyone raises an objection, Willy Wonka pretends he's deaf.

So a masquerade that just says "meh, of course IRL people would know but this is fiction" I can fully respect. One that bothers detailing out an explanation, but it's a half-assed one with a bunch of obvious holes, I don't respect.

I have an idea on how it may work

what if as a rule whenever a mage dares to reveal or is discovered by a human s/he is intantly Brought Down to Normal?

That way no mage would dare to break the masquerade and if they are discovered by accident by a human and becoming muggles they would lose any proof.

Ex.Mage: I had magic really! I could levitate objects.

Press:... Yeah right, you watch too much tv kid.

No need of memory stuff or people being dumb

edited 10th Apr '12 11:20:13 AM by FallenLegend

Does no one else spot the irony of this discussion happening on TV Tropes?

What do you mean? People argue about how silly and/or played-out and/or hard-to-use various tropes and clichés here all the time.

Unless you're referring to the site's origins, in which case I disagree even more strongly.

@Hussar: Oh, I spotted the irony long ago. I just figured it was so obvious it didn't need mentioning.

I honestly don't see the irony either, although I have thought that this discussion might fit better on Trope Talk.

In a sense it's a form of historical irony: We're talking about the non-viability of The Masquerade as a trope on a site that was founded around a series that was built on that very trope.

Yet, as I said, it's not so much ironic as inevitable: All criticism turns inward eventually.

I'm not sure that can really be considered ironic (in any sense of that much-abused word) anyway - this isn't remotely a Buffy fan site anymore. I've never watched it - or anything else by Whedon, for that matter - and I'd bet large sums of money I'm not the only person here that's true for.

I, too, am a Whedon heretic...but that's because I think Buffy, specifically early Buffy, was the only good work he's participated in.

I must disagree solely on the grounds that Firefly was fantastic, but... yes, he's kind of overrated, especially hereabouts. (Or, at least, he used to be.)

Precisely my point.

In fact, I didn't actually know that the site began as Buffy-based until two or three months after I found it. I knew Whedon-works tended to be Trope Overdosed, but I figured that was just because he happened to be one of the preferred writers here.

Fair enough. That doesn't make this entire derail any less stupid or pointless, however.

Hey, I didn't know that until this thread, and I've been here years.

Fo' serious?

Really, I thought that it was common knowledge that Eddie, Gus and Janitor were all Buffistas regulars...

^ Used to be... That shows more the site's age than the popularity of the source material anymore.

Plus, Buffy practically had it as a running gag.

True point. People forget that.

Or we, you know, haven't ever seen it.

edited 11th Apr '12 2:02:40 PM by nrjxll

Not every statement made in this forum applies to you.

I didn't mean to imply that they did.

Not sure where this thread is going anymore, really...

Been meaning to resurrect this for a while, in order to pitch in on a couple of themes I feel have become egregious. Namely, the notion that people are deluded or ignorant of the supernatural and in general the world is not ready; and that, particularly in urban fantasy, the setting is a bit too, well, urban. I've found that the former element tends to be heavily employed whenever the latter is used as a basis for the story, along with such wonderful and original ideas as seemingly ordinary people (naturally including the protagonist) born with special powers or otherwise a cut above the rest, or a super secret ages-old war between supernatural forces that has little if any effect on ordinary society.

To contrast, know how much classical myths, legends, ghost stories, vampire tales and even alien abduction records take place in rural or deserted areas, far from the trappings of heavily populated civilization? All of them. There's simply no need for a masquerade, because they are low key enough not to impact the world at large, and keep things Like Reality, Unless Noted. The reason that our monsters are different in modern fiction is that, in classical legend, they aren't particularly involved in worldly affairs. Yet, ironically, local societies are fully aware of their existence and nature - Dracula's peasants, for instance. They simply have better things to do than get killed.

In effect, a sadly mythtaken writer who for some reason wanted the fair folk (destroyed by iron) to function in a modern city (all but made of the stuff), not to mention gave them highly visible supernatural power, has to continually shill their operations staying secret by increasingly ridiculous plot devices, from willful ignorance to them outright being Invisible to Normals.

Now, I could go all literary analyst / armchair psychologist and say it's a hack way to have "special" protagonists where they otherwise wouldn't be (really, how many real-life conflicts have been singlehandedly resolved by teenage wannabe magicians) and have the audience project itself to it, but I feel the greater failing is that the special world hidden by the masquerade really isn't. Instead, it mirrors societies that are only too mundane, whether it be the stuffy British aristocracy, the gritty American underworld or the even grittier Russian espionage theater - at least the workings of latter two are justifiably hidden out of sight, as criminals and spies are in real life.

However, this approach does take away a lot of the genuinely supernatural out of the story; a lot of the mystery and appreciation of the supremely sublime phenomena that fuel ancient myths and even modern urban legends. Asserting that normal society can't or won't see it goes precisely against what these myths and legends stand for - to showcase, in wondrous ways, the fabulous realities that we do see. Instead, there is great irony in claiming unique and special insight, all while literally never venturing out of town.

The tl;dr - most fantasy or even sci-fi employing the masquerade isn't really all that fantastic, in more than one sense. Keep calm and take example from Hellboy for some real supernatural stories, without bothering with a masquerade to begin with.

edited 21st May '14 7:22:38 AM by indiana404