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MLP: FiM Subpages Cleanup: get usage counts

 1 Kenny Man 666, Sun, 11th Mar '12 6:44:20 AM from the frigid northlands
Viking
What to do, what to do.

This isn't actually about the main page, it's about the subpages, but I couldn't link to all of them in the title (and since I'm apparently not allowed to write my own title now, deal with it). We fixed Ensemble Darkhorse, Nightmare Fuel was somewhat fixed, but they're far from the only subpages that were utter atrocities. The other pages we are going to talk about today are the ones on moments of funny, heartwarming, awesome and tear jerker.

Because this is why those pages have problems.

Nightmare Fuel: Alright, this one was already cleaned up a bit, which was good. But it probably needs more work. The fact that Iron Will is actually listed as being Nightmare Fuel should be proof enough of that. Though what to do about the trope Nightmare Fuel in general seems to be a current discussion, so we should probably wait until that is all done until we can really fix this one.

Funny: Lists practically everything that doesn't go on the other pages, and in some cases, things that are on the other pages too. So, everything. In every episode. Because it's a cartoon that is meant to be funny.

Heartwarming: Lists anything even remotely possible to interpret as heartwarming. Also, any time one character is nice to another character. In a show where a central theme is friendship.

Awesome: Lists any accomplishment by any character.

Tear Jerker: Lists anything that could be interpreted as sad or otherwise touching in any way.

Yes, we got rid of the "Crowning" part of these trope names long ago, but I'm seeing a problem when, just how the Ensemble Darkhorse page once listed pretty much every single goddamned character in the show including unnamed background characters, the Moment pages together list essentially every single goddamned scene in the entire show. That seriously can't be what they're intended for. I'm not saying there's no legit examples in there, I saw a few I'd agree has a place on their respective pages.

But there's serious fixing needed here. For starters, my idea for the Awesome page is to list by character rather than episode, and keep the number reasonably low. Main characters get a few more than secondary characters, and one-episode characters should, if they get any at all, really not have more than one (oh, the bitching about Daring Do I'm going to unleash by suggesting that...) per character. That's not quite applicable to the other moment pages, though.

In general, like with the Ensemble Darkhorse page, things need comparing with each other, not just "this is a moment" and "this is also a moment". I'd find examples of what I mean but the Heartwarming page makes my head hurt. All these pages do but when the first entry is "Any time Apple Bloom says anything", my brain just sort of gave up on trying to find anything meaningful on the page. It's the listing per episode that needs to go in general, I think - episode listings just makes people find the one or two or three or more moments per episode that you could potentially call a moment of foo, comparing them to that episode only (if they even do that much critical thinking when listing things), when what we need to do is compare all moments to all other moments in the whole series.

So let's talk about this and try to figure out what we in general can do to make these pages suck less.

(And, just to note, since I noticed I was briefly accused of it in the main Fi M thread back when I wanted to destroy the Ensemble Darkhorse subpage: No, I'm not a pony hater. I'm doing this because I'm a pony fan. If I didn't like the show, I wouldn't want to touch any of these pages with a ten foot pole.)

edited 11th Mar '12 6:44:44 AM by KennyMan666

Fly & High!!
 3 Septimus Heap, Sun, 11th Mar '12 7:31:57 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Whew. The pony pages seem to become a chronic maintenance issue. I'm starting to think that maybe we'll need a central Pony Clean-Up thread in Special Efforts, since there are so many pages to fix and it doesn't really look like TRS work.

To start with Nightmare Fuel: we no longer have a trope called "nightmare fuel." Nightmare Fuel is a disambiguation page pointing to High Octane Nightmare Fuel and Accidental Nightmare Fuel. We voted to rename the Nightmare Fuel subpages to Accidental Nightmare Fuel. None of the examples on My Little Pony's Nightmare Fuel page are Accidental Nightmare Fuel.

edited 11th Mar '12 8:12:09 AM by Routerie

Cure Candy
[up] Flat "What.".... Auto-replace blue links had their fun there....

edited 11th Mar '12 8:12:17 AM by Raso

How have we not killed that auto-replace? We made NF into a disambiguation page like a month ago!

 7 Septimus Heap, Sun, 11th Mar '12 8:14:18 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
These custom titles are buggy as hell. You can only wait and see.

And why would all the stuff on NightmareFuel.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic be not accidentally scary?!

Cure Candy
[up][up]No we didn't that is one of the big issues with the HONF and ANF pages that were we talking about in the thread about it.

And the reason we had the crowner going but everything got shot down IIRC.

edited 11th Mar '12 8:15:34 AM by Raso

 9 Septimus Heap, Sun, 11th Mar '12 8:17:21 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
OK, question: Is this really a TRS topic or something that should go to Special Efforts?

[up][up][up]Check the page. The description, quote and image all refer to horror without even mentioning accidental horror. Now look at the examples. It's unsurprising that none cover accidental horror.

edited 11th Mar '12 8:22:57 AM by Routerie

 11 Septimus Heap, Sun, 11th Mar '12 8:25:39 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
So, they would go to HighOctaneNightmareFuel.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic then? They are horror after all.

On second thought, why would such a show have HONF?

Cure Candy
The series can give its share of Scary Moments... Not always Defanged Horrors.
Really, they should just form a single entry on Defanged Horrors. Parents let their children/bronies watch the show though it contains scary scenes because they're mildly scary and appropriate for the young target audience. (We don't collect Defanged Horror Moments.)

 14 shimaspawn, Sun, 11th Mar '12 8:39:27 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Defanged Horrors is the proper trope for them really. If they're not there, then they're HONF. Thing that were intended to be scary, and were in fact, scary.

edited 11th Mar '12 8:40:37 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 15 Septimus Heap, Sun, 11th Mar '12 8:42:44 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
I think that the MLP:FIM HONF page was cut because...why?

Also, I've a question here: Is this sort of multipage cleanup the job that usually TRS does, or something for Special Efforts?*

 16 shimaspawn, Sun, 11th Mar '12 8:46:36 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I think because the fans didn't like the term. >_<
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Cure Candy
[up][up][up] Scary moments are still scary moments, the fact that it's a kids show does not disqualify it from the HONF page.

The HF vs ANF vs HONF really needs to be freaken fixed damnit.

edited 11th Mar '12 8:50:58 AM by Raso

If anyone could find them scary, they're High Octane Nightmare Fuel, even if the show is designed for kids

If the horror is mild, in a show targeted to kids, so that they won't be too scared, it's Defanged Horrors.

We do not have a Scary Moments page. Some have suggested converting High Octane Nightmare Fuel to one, but we voted against it.

 19 Septimus Heap, Sun, 11th Mar '12 8:55:55 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
The NF/ANF/HONF thread is here, along with a suggestion for dealing with TRS cleanup efforts (in the link).

Returning to NF.MLPFIM page, is the problem there that some stuff should be in HONF?

Cure Candy
[up][up]HONF is already Scary Moments in every way but the name... Scary Moments is just easier to type out than that trope.. Sorry.

[up]The whole page should be moved over there not one is ANF... People keep thinking HONF is just Same But More of NF.

edited 11th Mar '12 8:59:05 AM by Raso

[up][up]None of it belongs on Nightmare Fuel. But moving them doesn't address the OP's point: these subpages list every (unsettling, amusing, nice) moment rather than extreme examples.

[up]Almost. Right now it purports to be a Very Scary Moments page evil grin.

edited 11th Mar '12 8:59:36 AM by Routerie

 22 Septimus Heap, Sun, 11th Mar '12 9:02:14 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
And again, if the issue is cleanup, is that really a job for TRS (I can only think of the need for standards as a reason to stay in TRS) or for Special Efforts?

The issue with MLP:FIM, as far as I can see, is that this show has a huge editor-dom, meaning that a lot of entries come in for subjective tropes/Audience Reactions.

Cure Candy
[up] Obsessed fans are hard to deal with in subjective tropes, it's more lets them have their fun... Start imputing special rules for them it will piss people off and making it a general rule will ruin everyone's fun.

It's subjective for a reason so we should leave it.
This seems to be a cleanup issue rather than a repair issue; doesn't look like any sort of consensus is needed here, just man-hours to sweep the pages.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Apart from the YMMV pages, the actual character pages and stuff also have some pretty clear shoehorning going on.

Total posts: 191
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