... In what feasible situation would that come up?
DM: Roll your Bluff check!
Player: Oh man, nothing but 1s.
DM: *consults chart* You shit a tiger.
Official Tesladyne Employee TM
Is there also an entry for 'trip on invisible dead turtle'?
You are dazzled by my array of very legal documents.
Is there an Immovable Rod on that tabl- *clang* What the fuck was that!
Street Writing Man
To bring this thread back a bit...anyone else notice the egregious potential for abuse inherent in a good many of the old Werewolf gifts? As a storyteller, I saw more than a few.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
Oh, man. There was abuse all over the oWoD. I still remember the Garou Tribal Slayer someone built who did something like twenty d10 aggravated damage with each hand, and attacked twice a round. Ridiculous.
Street Writing Man
I was thinking more "ridiculous abuse" rather than straight munchkin behavior.
Example; I watched the Elder Bone Gnawer Gift: Gluttony used to capture and restrain a vampire.
I still laugh when I remember the line, "Now presenting...The Prince of Seattle! (hork)"
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
Official Tesladyne Employee TM
Hopefully W20's Gifts will be a bit more balanced. I'm assuming that all those years working on Exalted (and especially that time working on errata for Exalted) have taught Holden Shearer to triple-check kewl powerz before they make it to print.
You are dazzled by my array of very legal documents.
Any thoughts about the alternate cosmology for Werewolf: The Apocalypse I suggested on page 3?
Well the "evil Weaver" concept always seemed to me a reflection of the oWoD's "logic/reason/science is bad" vibes rather than a justified idea, a story where all three players only try to perform their respective roles and remain faithful to it even as they get locked in a conflict as they try to accostume themselves to a quickly changing world, makes for a more interesting set up.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
True. I especially like that it highlights their nature as Eldritch Abominations by showing that not only are they unable to devise long-term solutions to problems, but that their programmed natures made this conflict inevitable from the start. It also raises questions about what force, if any, created them.
One thing I always thought was weird was how the Dreamspeakers were tied to the Mayans, Aztecs, and other American empires, as opposed to the Verbena. These empires were the equivalents of the Greeks and Romans, with writing, agriculture, stonemasonry, and organized religion, and yet they're tossed into the hodgepodge of Magical Negroes and Magical Native Americans. In fact, all of the Traditions suffer from such problems: the Verbena are tied to Wiccans even though their beliefs violate the Wiccan Rede (blood sacrifice is BAAAAD), the Euthanatos are serial killers, the Akashic Brotherhood represents the whole of China even though its occult history is just as varied as Europe's... so the traditions are obviously poor representations of human populations. On the downside, the Virtual Adepts now strike me as sad... virtual reality has come and gone like the fad it was, and now the internet exists for mindless consumerism and illegal filesharing and porn, not the bastion of freethinking the Adepts wanted it to be.
EDIT: Oh, and Facebook is destroying privacy and other Bad Stuff™.
So it's mighty good that we got Mage: The Dirty Version
, which overhauls Ascension into what I feel it was supposed to have been.
EDIT: Zombie: The Coil is pretty interesting, if you can get past the fact that the Designated Heroes literally eat people alive, while the Designated Villains eat days-old corpses. Since it embodies nWoD sensibilities I think it would be great for a conversion. I've even managed to figure out how to reconcile it with the default Our Zombies Are Different: Feos come in many different varieties (some of which don't eat or die after 24 hours, etc), but the likelihood they'll become capital-Z Zombies is generally dependent on their livespan and their connection to their augur (whether that's a mambo, a demiurge, or a ghost/spirit with the "create zombie" numen).
edited 30th Mar '12 3:16:37 PM by Zenoseiya
The Traditions actually didn't bother me too much because I always assumed that the various groupings came about because of people's choices- not so much the magic they practiced as *who* was doing it. Thus, the Dreamspeakers are a weird hodge-podge, as are the Verbena, because that's who the people running it thought should be in their group, rather than it being some cosmic law handed down.
(I know the mechanics don't support this, but I always thought of that as either 1.) Training or 2.) Belief shaping reality so that what they thought was true now is true.)
I always assumed racism is pretty much the only logical explanation, both by the fictional characters and the authors.
However, I cannot fault Mark Rein*Hagen or Phil Brucato or whoever thought Gypsies was a good idea. They were not being deliberately racist or misogynistic or homophobic or whatever it was this week in 1995, they were just really, really ignorant. Intentional racism would be FATAL or Ra Ho Wa. The White Wolf writers just had a fetish for katana-wielding fox-headed Japanese schoolgirls with d-cups.
I mean, just last week an RPG newsletter got flack for using the phrase "Magical Negro" when explaining the Noble Savage archetype, completely ignoring the fact that the Noble Savage is an inherently racist concept or that the example Noble Savage was George Of The Jungle, who is actually a parody of Mighty Whitey, not a Noble Savage.
edited 2nd Apr '12 5:37:23 PM by Zenoseiya
Wow, umm, wow.
Eh, tabletop gaming is kind of a white person's thing. I hate to say that so baldly, but it's really evolved into "this is what white male nerds do". Are there exceptions? Yes. Do note the word exception, however.
So I can see where the offense and the ignorance come from. White males making stuff for other white males. You get the various nerd influences and stupidities.
Official Tesladyne Employee TM
Oddly enough, the Archetype of the Week stuff that caused the problem was actually from Hex Games, not written originally by the staff of the newsletter. Their apology basically reads "it was included to remind everyone how racist the noble-savage trope could be, but the guy writing it didn't explain that part clearly, or for that matter at all".
Hilariously, it actually links to our very own Magical Negro page.
edited 2nd Apr '12 8:00:23 PM by CountDorku
You are dazzled by my array of very legal documents.
Street Writing Man
@Zeno: Uh, dude, you just described every RPG writer ever. Show me one that didn't make use of one stereotype or other. because I'd be real curious to see it.
We're all geeks, and we've all got a hard-on for shit most people think is silly. Those who claim to be "different" are also known as dirty stinking liars.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
The difference is that we don't have to use a stereotype to be racist, which is a different problem.
Street Writing Man
I'm not sure how racism is different from any of the other "isms" flying around, but OTC is thattaway.
Official Tesladyne Employee TM
So...World of Darkness.
Quick, everyone! List your favourite Hunter The Vigil compact or conspiracy and why, or vampires will destroy the entire Earth and lead to the extinction of the spotted owl HAHAHA.
For me? Null Mysteriis. Science, bitches.
You are dazzled by my array of very legal documents.
Aegis Kai Doru. You know they've got all the cool toys.
That said, if I did a NWoD campaign, I'd like Ashwood Abbey as an antagonist, just for the idea of a bunch of would-be hunters getting in over their head, and then justice getting served, supernatural-style.
Did anyone ever try out Wraith The Arising? I mean, one of the most common complaints about Wraith The Oblivion was that characters couldn't interact with the living without the Embody Arcanos at higher levels. Arising fixes that by allowing a beginning Wraith to manifest a weak physical body and pretend to be human (albeit a dead one), while the Embody Arcanos becomes an all-purpose "ghostly manifestation" power.
They actually fixed the issue way back with Orpheus (yay Vitality manifestation!), but that's nice to see. If only it were official; much as I liked Geist and the whole Perky Goth thing, it didn't really capture the dread feelings and nightmares as well Wraith: The Oblivion did.
Arising takes some cues directly from Orpheus and Exalted: The Abyssals, such as Manifestations, Symptoms (stains), and Grave Goods (items buried with dead people develop ghostly doubles). It may not be official, but it was written by a professional writer and Wraith fan, and has many unique aspects that set it apart from the official games. The author deliberately tried to distance himself from the world of Oblivion while retaining the core of what made Wraith good, and I enjoyed the streamlining of the original systems and the new features that were introduced.
I'm going to start doing a part-by-part review of Arising. Here is the first part:
Wraith: The Arising, Front Page
This page lists the authors and artists. Here, it is explained that WtAr (as it shall be known in acronym) is supposed to be a reimagining of Wraith: The Oblivion, the most depressing game of all time. It expands on the ghost rules from the World of Darkness rulebook, and takes cues from Orpheus and Exalted: The Abyssals (this will be explained later in the review).
Wraith: The Arising, Statement of Intent
The Statement opens up with a quote. Many quotes are spaced out throughout the Statement, intending to set the mood.
The Word was Light - The Light was Life.
The Gods found them Good and Gold.
Nothing Good and Gold can stay.
—The Book of Old Times, first Stanza —
As you can see, it's quite depressing.
The author spends the first couple paragraphs discussing the release of the new World of Darkness (as this was written back in 2004), and praises it for its emphasis on the night-to-night existences of characters.
The next quote is this:
Save The Lost — Destroy The Damned
Wake Not The Sleepers
Await the Day of Dominion
— The Injunction —
The next couple paragraphs repeat the explanation on the front page. What follows is the distinction between the ghosts in the rulebook and Wraiths: ghosts are your standard ghost, doomed to mindlessly haunt places and people and things that were important to them in life. Wraiths, however, are ghosts who have regained their self-awareness, known as, dun dun, the Arising!
The next quote is the Arising process from a first-person perspective:
Then I realized that it wasn't the air that was heavy and wet. I was caught up in that something, and found it repellent, like an unwanted hand on my shoulder. So I sought to tear it from myself as quickly as I could.
My Shroud came apart as easily as tissue paper, and fell to my feet in tatters. I felt the cold, night air on my face, and saw no trace of the man who'd been killing me all those years. I saw bright park lights that hadn't been there just moments ago, and a new set of benches, right on the way to the trees...
And I knew, at long last, that I was dead.
In the next few paragraphs the author argues for his decision to remake Wraith, explaining his wish to incorporate revisions, as well as new conceptions of ghosts from popular movies like "The Ring" (this in particular will be mentioned again later on).
The author then briefly discusses the new World of Darkness and Orpheus.
Another quote:
They say they're guardian angels, indeed. And they spend their afterlives looking after people, yes they do. The helpless, the hopeless and the aimless, folks like that, they are. Just trying to keep them alive, the Messengers say, yes they do.
Or so they say. So they say!
Me, now, I've got my own ideas.
You, I bet you notice how those people they watch always die. Those stories never have a happy ending, no they don't. One day the angel isn't there, and that's when it happens, yes it does.
The little boy falls down the well, yes he does. The junkie takes the fall, yes he does. The kid eats the gun, yes he does.
And they always become ghosts, yes they do. Isn't it funny, that is? Always always always ghosts. Always, yes I say!
And when they wake up... they always become Messengers.
Yes they do.
Creepy...
Now the author presents his personal goals for the netbook:
- To present Wraiths in much the same way that they were before.
- To simplify some matters, both in keeping with the new rules and on reflection of the old.
- To change the previous backdrop of the game.
- To bring in a renewed sense of mystery, danger and dread.
- To keep the angle of passion and horror that made the Wraith: the Oblivion the great game it was, and still is.
- To keep the Shadow, in spite of all the changes.
- To keep the hope!!!
I can understand how some people might disagree.
Another quote:
(WE INVOKE THEE)
Vanth, I hold your torch which lights the darkness.
Vanth, I hold your key which opens the door.
Vanth, I am your serpent, holding the key and the torch.
(WE ARE THE DEAD, CRUSHED UNDERFOOT)
From the darkness of the Underworld, Vanth, I call thee.
Thou who sees all that is, all that was, all that is yet to come, Vanth, I abjure thee.
Thou who art the healer of life and the taker of it, Vanth, I supplicate myself before thee.
(WE AWAIT THY WORD, THY CALL, THY COMMAND)
Come to us from beyond the Barrier, noble Goddess.
Heed the words of thy true servants.
Show us your favor on this, your day.
(AND WE AWAIT THY APPROACH ON THE DARK DAY TO COME)
— Prayer of The Order to the Herald of Death —
Here the author launches into a tirade about how playing Wraith isn't supposed to make you want to kill yourself, but to make to re-examine your own life and gain a better appreciation for it.
The author states this is the reason Wraith is his favorite game, even if it's not economical.
edited 6th Apr '12 10:55:05 AM by Zenoseiya
Indeed...I actually know Mr. Tremlett well. I actually contributed to the dearly missed Wraith Project here and there before it became inactive, mostly with Orpheus and parts of Victorian Age Wraith. He's always been a fantastic writer when it comes to those games...a pity more of his stuff wasn't official.
edited 6th Apr '12 11:30:42 PM by Doryna
I was going to say stranger things have happened in the World of Darkness. But crapping out tigers...
I think we're going to have to add that to the critical fail chart somehow.