Ten reasons why it should be nuked: Tastes Like Dirt

1) It's reundant with Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy

2) Describtion claims that this is always bad trope unless invoked. Tropes Are Not Bad. And Rated M for Manly is not invocation of this trope, that just simply makes no sense - if it was, all the examples of it would automatically fall under this trope too.

3) It's a poorly made snowclone of Tastes Like Diabetes and we don't need tropes being made just to produce counterbalance for another trope, when there are already other tropes that serve the same purpose.

4) Trope describtion of Darker and Edgier covers this.

5) Most of examples just describes how dark the title is, not why it's a bad thing.

6) Some examples are put there with no explanation at all.

7) Some of things of the lists are dark because that's the point. I doubt there is any sense of saying that things like Berserk or Warhammer40000 are so dark it's not even entertaining, when the existence of many people who are into them for how dark they are proves otherwise.

8) This trope is writen in a way that basically insults everybody who likes dark things. It tells you that if you like Now And Then Here And There or Spawn, then there is something wrong with you and doesn't even explain why.

9) Many of the examples are questionable. Horrors are listed for the near-universal Downer Ending, which is stupid, when you consider that most of the listed movies don't end on a downers. This example just reads like "Horrors are bad. Except those two that I like".

10) Why is music there? How can music be so dark it's not entertaining? And Slipknot's example doesn't make sense - it's disgusting because it's like Marlyn Mason and Korn? Why aren't those bands on the list then?

I'm for nuking thi trope to the oblivion. We don't need it, it's badly described and serves as a poorly disguised excuse to Complaining About Shows You Dont Like.

And how I'm supposed to tell when more that 25% of the movie is dark? I'm supposed to measure darkness now? How? is there some device that's supposed to tell me when something is safely only 24% dark and when it's more?

edited 16th Feb '12 4:27:05 PM by PrimoVictoria

I agree completely. I especially agree with point number seven. Let's cut this bullshit and be done with it.

I don't think I've ever seen such a solid case against a page.

Here's what the descriptions seem to say the difference is between Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy and Tastes Like Dirt:

• Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy is when everyone in the story, protagonist and villains alike, is either evil or such a Jerkass that you can't sympathize with any of the conflicts. Will The Hero beat the Big Bad? I don't care, because The Hero being in charge wouldn't make things any better.

• Tastes Like Dirt is when everything that happens in the story is so grim and depressing that it just becomes unwatchable. Will The Hero successfully be able to amputate his frost bitten legs after being left out in the wilderness by his evil drugged-up mother? I don't care, because even if he does, something even worse will probably happen to him in the next episode.

I haven't checked yet to see if the examples match the descriptions, but they seem like 2 different tropes to me. A story with Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy doesn't have to be depressing grim - it could be an fast-paced action movie. It would just have to be an action movie where the protagonist is such an anti-hero Jerkass that he isn't fun to watch.

I wouldn't mind changing the name to something like No One To Root For.

edited 16th Feb '12 11:27:09 PM by abk0100

Oh, and can we cut Tastes Like An Index along with it?

(Search generated index linking unconnected concepts.)

Once again, Search Generated Index specifically allows for this sort of index.

I'm going to give a to Victoria for the argumentation. I agree. Cut it with lightsaber chainsaws that are on fire and coated with acid.

edited 16th Feb '12 11:20:47 PM by Feather7603

First: Another to the OP for a wonderfully summarized argument.

However, I think I agree with abk at post 4. There seems to be a necessary trope here, though the name probably doesn't fit and the examples might not either. It would also be a YMMV audience reaction.

To people saying that these are the same tropes, compare the descriptions:

"Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy occurs when there is no meaningful conflict in the first place because all sides are abhorrently, equally evil- or at least, far enough gone that any difference between the two is splitting hairs."

"If it Tastes Like Dirt, then it's so dark and edgy it seems over-the-top and not even entertaining."

How is that the same thing?

edited 16th Feb '12 11:34:05 PM by abk0100

Well, at most I can see it as The Same But More Specific of So Bad, It's Horrible.

I still think it should be cut, though, due to the examples and description being more about complaining than the actual trope.

edited 17th Feb '12 12:12:32 AM by Feather7603

Also, what the hell is up with that "25% of the tropes must be dark" bit? I mean, what, somebody has to look at the page, count the number of tropes and how many are dark?

The parts of Tastes Like Dirt that are distinct from Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy are covered by Darker and Edgier. It is completely redundant to those two tropes. And there are 8 other good reasons it sucks. Cut.

edited 17th Feb '12 12:17:58 AM by rodneyAnonymous

Darker and Edgier is a Tone Shift this does not have to be a Tone Shift at all going to jump in with abk 0100 on this.

edited 17th Feb '12 12:27:37 AM by Raso

Ok.

Next: While there may be something tropey buried somewhere in there, examples can't help but decay into Complaining About Shows You Dont Like.

edited 17th Feb '12 12:47:09 AM by rodneyAnonymous

Whether this is different from Darkness Induced Apathy or Darker and Edgier is irrelevant. This isn't a trope at all, it's just Complaining About Dark Fiction You Dont Like. Obviously, there are many, many people who like dark fiction. The inclusion of Warhammer 40,000 is especially absurd, since that fandom is huge. How about Cormac McCarthy's The Road or Blood Meridian? Two of the best and most acclaimed recent American novels, and they're both incredibly dark with very few to no happy moments.

This "trope" is just a product of people who fail to understand dark fiction, or don't like it because it makes them feel bad.

The guy who has to amputate his leg to get out of the trap his mother got him into sounds like something I might want to read.

Wow. The Fanfiction folder is written as Fan Fanfiction.

Kill It with Fire.

edited 17th Feb '12 5:22:32 AM by lu127

I'd support a redirecting to a better trope, if only to catch the 68 inbounds.

I agree with everyone else. The description is negative, and most of the examples sound whiny (when they're not Zero Context Examples).

Agree with cutting this page. It's completely redundant.

Cut. While in theory it'd be an interesting fan reaction trope, as is it's broken and unsalvagable.

My understanding is that this trope is, or should be, to Crapsack World as Tastes Like Diabetes is to Sugar Bowl.

Tastes Like Diabetes is a good analogy: it's not much of a trope either. But it's not so prone to complaining.

"Work is grimdark" is not a trope, and neither is "work is so grimdark it sucks".

I'm suggesting cuting it and starting new YKTTW for replacement that only limits examples to things that are universally hated for how dark they are (like FATAL or The Unfunnies).

Again, what do we do with the inbounds?

I honestly don't think we should worry about the inbounds, since they aren't that many, but if you insist, someone can YKTTW the proper trope and after it's launched, we redirect this mess there.

Also, the new trope should be more neutral. Tastes Like Diabetes even says it's not necessarily a bad thing, but this one basically says: "HOW DARE YOU LIKE DARK STORIES, THAT'S A BAD THING!"