This is the sticky thread for questions related to the namespacing of works. As in, "which is the right namespace for this work?"
Ideally, questions already answered are covered on the Namespace Map. If you know a namespacing issue has already been resolved, but it is not yet documented on the Map, please update the Map.
If you want to suggest a new namespace, don't post here, but in Suggesting New Namespaces
instead.
For easier reference, I've numbered my questions:
- #1: Where do animated films go? They seem to be distributed rather inconsistenly over Film/ (Puss In Boots, Whats Opera Doc), WesternAnimation/ (Disneys Anne Frank, Snow White), Anime/ (Princess Mononoke) and Disney/ (Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs, Der Fuehrers Face).
- #2: There are a few songs which have their own pages ("Pirate Jenny"). Where do they go – to Music/ or to Literature/ ?
- #3: Where do composers go – to Music/ , or are they to be treated like other creators, which hitherto stay on Main/ ?
- #4: Where do Talk Shows, Game Shows and News Broadcasts go? I guess you could call these formats Live-Action TV but they're not really "TV series", as in Series/.
- #5: Am I right in assuming that Puppet Shows go to Series/ ?
- #6: What about “hybrid shows”, i.e. segment shows that incorporate both live action and animation? (e.g. Die Sendung Mit Der Maus)
- #7: Where to put picture books? I am thinking of books like Der Struwwelpeter and Max and Moritz — books that are really not complete without their illustrations. They are not (yet) ComicBook/s, but to sort them under Literature/ feels a little unsatisfactory too.
- #8: The rule is to put works into the namespace of their original medium. However, once in a while there is a work which is little known in its original medium, and almost exclusively known by its adaptation. I’m thinking of Das Boot, for example: there's a novel, but it is almost exclusively known by the Petersen movie.
- #9: Should One Book Authors who are invariably tied to a single work be treated as a creator or a work page rather?— Currently, we have Samuel Pepys and Herodotus, but shouldn't these pages be at Literature/The Diary of Samuel Pepys and Literature/The Histories rather?
- #10: There are cases where I’m unsure whether to use the English or the original title. Is there are hard rule that determines whether Der Ring Des Nibelungen goes to Theatre/Der Ring des Nibelungen or Theatre/The Ring of the Nibelung? Even Wikipedia uses the original title.
I'd be grateful for input.
Edited by SeptimusHeap on Nov 9th 2023 at 8:15:08 PM
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edited 23rd Jul '17 2:22:47 PM by Jicragg
Lost in Space
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The difference is cosmetic; both Creator and Work use the same style settings, as far as I know. However, a band is a Creator, not a work — we aren't (hopefully) writing articles for each song, album, or video.
Put it this way: Tom Clancy is a creator; The Hunt For Red October is a work. However, we put tropes for Clancy's work on his Creator page because they are general to his books and to cover those books for which individual articles have not been written.
If we have Music.Paul Mc Cartney, that's fine. He is a musician first and foremost. I probably used a bad example there.
edited 22nd Mar '12 8:52:23 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Here's something I'm wondering about, from YMMV.Pantera:
- Tear Jerker:
- "Cemetery Gates," "Floods," and "Hollow."
- Darrell's murder definitely qualifies.
- Shortly after Darrell's murder, Anselmo (with whom Darrell and his family were not on speaking terms immediately before his death) released a video apology for the things he had said about Darrell, and offering his condolences for his family. During the video, Anselmo, who is well known for being perhaps the living embodiment of Rated M for Manly and Testosterone Poisoning, breaks down and weeps for his murdered friend.
The first sub-bullet point mentions songs Pantera did that could be considered tearjerkers - and that, I know, is fine. However, the other two mention moments from the lives of the Pantera members themselves that can be tearjerkers for Pantera fans. Is it fine to also include those, or should only the first be included?
I'm guessing that Creator.Miley Cyrus is probably necessary, though - since she's an actress, as well as a singer.
Lost in Space
I would say definitely cut out those last two items. They are about Real Life and therefore not on-mission. By contrast, if some of their songs reference or were inspired by real events, that's pertinent information.
Agreed, as long as the articles cross-wick each other. I might even go so far as to make the one page Music.Hannah Montana and the other Creator.Miley Cyrus.
Edit: Bah, I looked at the Miley Cyrus page and it's kind of complicated, as she apparently has a music career as both herself and her stage name. I'd put her music career all on one page and have it be a redirect from the other potential names. Her acting career can be documented as Creator.Miley Cyrus.
edited 22nd Mar '12 9:31:12 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Yes, other namespaces can be added as redirects. Redirects from other namespaces that count should be added.
BTW, what is supposed to be included in the Awesome/ namespace for musicians? I know awesome songs are supposed to go in the AwesomeMusic/ namespace (which, BTW, should really have the Sugar Wiki template). If I recall correctly, I think the Awesome/ namespace was supposed to be reserved for concert performances - but some people use them to include awesome things that the musicians themselves have done.
Awesome things that happen in the songs, I guess? Maybe in the last verse Batman swings in and beats up some bad guys and it's really awesome, I dunno.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
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edited 23rd Jul '17 2:22:03 PM by Jicragg
I'm sorry to keep bringing this up, but I really think the AwesomeMusic/ namespace needs to have the Sugar Wiki colour scheme. The index for Awesome Music has it - and the CrowningMusic/ namespace had it, until it was overruled in favour of the AwesomeMusic/ namespace. Consistency, and all.
BTW, I did mention it in Tech Wishlist - but nobody ever responded to it.
I've written up Sandbox.Creator Pages as a tentative set of guidelines for what belongs and doesn't belong on creator pages. How's it look?
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Looking good so far. Can't really think of a suggestion though... maybe add something below the Creator Bashing about extreme opinions on the other end or something...
edited 22nd Mar '12 8:14:21 PM by EarlOfSandvich
I now go by Graf von Tirol.
Hi
Looking good so far.
Okay, if that's enough ratification and peer review, I'll go ahead and move it over to Administrivia.Creator Page Guidelines.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Not An Avatar
Would it be a good idea to link to the Creator Page Guidelines at the top of Creators and the various pages referred to in the first line? It's a good place to explain the purpose of creator pages and how to use them.
We're not just men of science, we're men of TROPE!
Personally, I'd be in favour of it.
Added note on Creators.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Tsundere pet.
I'm not sure where to ask this, so I'll try here; if I wanted to make a works page for a 14th century illustrated handscroll set, would that go under Literature? The majority of the scrolls are taken up by pictures, but the story is told through text, so I'm assuming it should be treated like a very heavily illustrated book.
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edited 23rd Jul '17 2:02:37 PM by Jicragg
@Lebrel:
In post 3 of this thread (question #7) Fast Eddie said that picture books should go to Literature/ (see the Dr Seuss books or Struwwelpeter). I think this is an analogous case.
I see the Awesomeness.
Networks should go under creator I believe, they count as producers.
Fight smart, not fair.
Regarding Disney/: The way I saw it in the Namespace page, that is where the Disney Animated Canon goes. I also saw a few works not in the DAC using that namespace. Just trying to clear it up about whether Disney/ is exclusively meant for the DAC movies.
edited 1st Apr '12 1:32:58 AM by EarlOfSandvich
I now go by Graf von Tirol.
I think the reason for the /Disney/ namespace is that Disney works keep colliding with other works if you try to namespace them somewhere else.
On a related note, should this be pinned?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Good point. I actually was kind of confused about that, especially since we were even going as far as to excise that stuff from the YMMV pages. In that case, should creator pages just contain a description and a list of their works? With Paul McCartney, though, he has also recorded music as a solo artist - but since he also had Wings and various other collaborations, he could use a Creator/ page. Musicians who are also actors would also be examples, I guess.
What I'm wondering, though, is if the recording artists on the Music/ namespace should be changed from "creator" page type to "works" page type? Especially if they are supposed to be primarily about the music itself.
edited 22nd Mar '12 8:48:31 AM by movie007