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Please read the rules below before posting. We're taking turns to post text, and text posted out of turn will be hollered.

The discussion over at the "Is being Troperiffic a Bad Thing?" thread got a few of us seriously talking about starting a full-fledged, free for all dedicated ConCrit thread. Thanks go to your friendly neighborhood Herald, Chihuahua0, for giving this the go-ahead smile

This is how it's going to work:

  • This thread is for helping people improve as writers. Please stay away from needlessly gushing or needlessly being mean when handing out criticism.
  • No mentioning your own work when giving out criticism. This is to prevent "Let's talk about ME" derails.
  • Feedback will be given to one person at a time. We're taking a deliberately slow pace; a person's turn to get feedback is generally supposed to last a week, but we're not ending someone's turn until they get feedback from at least five different people. On the other hand, the person getting feedback can end their own turn if they figure they're done.
  • When a turn ends, we wait 12 hours to see if anyone of the people who have just given feedback wants to be up next. If they don't, we pick the person up next from the feedback request list.
  • Yes, it's okay to point out spelling and grammar errors made by the person you're giving feedback to.
  • If you're unfamiliar with the original verse of a piece of Fan Fiction up for feedback, pretend it's a piece of original fiction and criticize accordingly.
  • If and when you step up to receive feedback:
    • Post actual writing (not world-building, concepts, layouts, character lists and so on).
    • Be specific in what you are looking for, or at least mention what is troubling you the most.
    • Fan Fiction is fine, but take into account that anyone not familiar with the source material will judge your piece "blind", essentially by the same standards as original fiction. This means you might get called out on flaws that fan fiction usually gets away with in practice, perhaps even justifiably so. Just like any other kind of criticism, consider it or ignore at at your discretion.
    • Be ready to hear some things you probably didn't want to hear. This should go without saying, but, please: No being bitter, being sarcastic, calling people out for "going too far" or otherwise expressing disapproval of the criticism given to you. If you think people are being unfair to your writing, make your case civilly.

With that said, I suppose we can begin and see whether this goes anywhere. The first person to respond with a post to the extent of "I'll go first" will go first.

edited 17th Feb '12 5:07:01 PM by TripleElation

Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1176: Oct 21st 2016 at 7:24:28 AM

Take as much time as you need.

I took the time to remove the lines you crossed out on the document, by the way.

Ryoko.
CrystalGlacia from at least we're not detroit Since: May, 2009
#1177: Oct 21st 2016 at 10:06:24 AM

Yeah, as a note for the future, Inigo, I'd recommend just copying the text of the story into a read-only GDoc with anyone-can-view permissions and commenting that up, if commenting and striking up a doc is how you prefer to critique. I'm using a Chromebook and there's no PDF extensions that can view your comments, and there's also no Acrobat for Linux. Plus, commented-up GDocs don't require anybody to download anything.

Speaking as someone who used to watch anime heavily and is a fan of the western fantasy genre, I'd be careful about aiming this at people who like fantasy and people who like anime. The shonen anime/manga feel is very overpowering (which is very easy to do) to the extent that this reads less like something that could appeal to people who like fantasy and people who like shonen anime/manga, and more like a shonen anime/manga novelization that happens to have a fantastical setting.

This doesn't necessarily mean the story is bad, just that you may have aimed it at the wrong audience. If anime and manga-style stuff is your jam as a writer, aim the story at people who also like anime and manga. If you really, really want the fantasy lit crowd to like it, too, maybe check out some modern fantasy lit for inspiration. Some feel that The Kingkiller Chronicle would lend itself well to the anime format, because it's paced and structured like an anime.

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1178: Oct 21st 2016 at 1:13:52 PM

So what you're saying is if I can't effectively appeal to both demographics I should try to focus on just one of them?

Because if that's the case then I'll just aim this towards Shonen fans than fantasy fans considering I have more experience watching Shonen than reading/watching fantasy.

Ryoko.
CrystalGlacia from at least we're not detroit Since: May, 2009
#1179: Oct 21st 2016 at 3:48:30 PM

The thing with making works Animesque is that for most people who aren't into anime, such works are usually Animesque first and their genre second. When people (in the western world, at least) call themselves fantasy fans or romance fans or [insert genre] fans with no other modifiers, they often mean they're fans of the western variety of that genre. It's just something you'll have to deal with as long as you write Animesque stuff.

But, yes, that's basically what I'm saying. The choice is ultimately yours to make, but if you don't feel compelled to look into a genre and see how different it can be from your other big influence, probably don't aim your story at that genre's fans.

I'm not your intended audience, but that's all I wanted to say.

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
InigoMontoya Virile Member from C:∖Windows∖System32∖ Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Virile Member
#1181: Oct 22nd 2016 at 11:41:41 AM

[up][up][up][up] Windows or bust! evil grin
Seriously, though, I'll take that into account the next time, thanks for the heads-up. Also, I won't buy a Chromebook[lol]

edited 22nd Oct '16 11:42:58 AM by InigoMontoya

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."
Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1182: Oct 24th 2016 at 10:30:08 AM

Found a computer! I'll respond to your comments in order.

1. INFODUMP ALERT! Let the reader put the pieces together gradually instead of having him say "I am locked in a giant glass bubble"

In a previous version I tried to be more vague, but the constructive critics over at Absolute Writing told me I was driving the reader away. Guess I'll have to find a middle ground somewhere.

2. Ditto. There's no hurry, take the time to give us some backstory, for example, an incident with the use of his power that led to his confinement.

I wanted to leave that as a Noodle Incident, but if elaborating will make it work better then I have no problem explaining.

3. Tense

It looks grammatically correct to me...

4. Good. You don't tell us immediately what "yesterday" was about.

See 2.

5. I'd delete that last sentence. Suggestion: "That will definitely help with your release, genius."

I'll try to see if I can make that suggestion a bit more suave to fit his character. (That suggestion as it is sounds more like another snarky character that's introduced in Chapter 4.)

6. scare quotes are enough

Re-reading the manuscript, there's a lot of things I felt like weren't really necessary.

7. have

Fixed

8. Very sad that Tedrick seems to lack proper appreciation for sarcasm :D

Well, not everybody can. grin

9. That usually doesn't stop people!

Are you saying that in response to Tedrick saying he can't hate Inazuma and Denko because they're family?

10. Tense

Again. I don't see the error.

11. Normal usage is to not use quote marks for internal monologues, I think

Makes sense. Fixed.

12. How is that? Has he caused hundreds of injuries?

Ted has a Hair-Trigger Temper. He's hurt several dragons over the years.

13. INFODUMP ALERT!

Cut.

14. A more meaningful reaction would be nice (as spoken dialogue or other).

Not sure how to make it more meaningful... I'd be pretty excited too if I was allowed to leave the house after 16 years.

15. I don't know much about the world you created, but didn't she previously refer to his "*fellow* dragons"

She meant it in a honorary sense. Ted's a Dragon Child, a human raised by dragons and considered a dragon themselves.

16. Tense!

Fixed.

17. The comment next to "Where do you think you're going?" is blank. Any reason?

18. Always? What happens on the day she does the laundry? :p

I know that was most likely a joke, but I'm gonna answer anyway. Eve wears her green dress most often. Not always.

19. Another blank comment.

20. This requires a comment explaining or remarking on the fact that if Lady Inazuma wants to see you, that can't possibly a good thing or something.

I'll see what I can do.

21. See my post in the CC thread.

22. describe

Describing is my weakness alongside tenses. That why I try to make the narrative as simplistic as possible; so I don't end up with Purple Prose.

23. You mean technologically

Yeah. Fixed.

24. Needs more wit

Thought so. I'll see what I can do.

25. Come on! It's clearly an insult!

Well, if the idiocy in question is endearing, it's hard to say if it's a good thing or bad thing. To me anyway.

26. italics

Oversight. Fixed.

27. BECAUSE THROWING THUNDERBOLTS IS COOL!

That it is. But would you if it meant killing people?

28. poor phrasing

That's what happens when you write by the seat of your pants; you're bound to get lackluster lines. I'll see what I can do.

29. very poor phrasing

See 28.

30. How would he?

Denko assumed she must've told him at some point. She had 16 years, after all.

31. I would expect more sophistication from a 16 year old

I assumed being locked in a confined space for the majority of your childhood wouldn't help your maturity much.

32. phrasing!

See 28.

33. see main thread

34. This piling up of one incredulous exclamation after another is becoming tiring

Figured. Fixed.

35. ''Good idea, you should probably use that more (and more consistently). Again, though, the phrasing. A puppy gets kicked every time you write something like "I didn't know it, but..."''

I'm getting mixed messages. You're saying I should use more lines like that but different?

36. cheesy

See 28.

37. tense

Fixed.

38. Can't it be both?

Maybe. Not sure how to make that work in that scene though.

39. This begs for a "Where have I already heard that?"

You mean a Call-Back to when Denko let him out? I'll see what I can do.

40. This sentence makes no sense. Rest of the soliloquy is pretty good, though.

He was pointing out how Inazuma adopted a human despite believing that they're inherently evil. Thinking about it now, I can see how she would think Ted would have no problem killing people.

41. That's not how it works

It's not that Denko wanted to be enemies. He was just stating the facts; Ted's a traitor now and Denko isn't. So they're enemies.

42. Then we should have known from the start this was a flashback. Nothing wrong with those, it just needs to be framed better

Noted.

43. Brave? Or is referencing Shakespeare/Aldous Huxley not kosher in a Japan-centric work?

I just wrote what I thought best fitted the scene. No reference intended.

44. DUN DUN DUN DUN! Seriously, don't.

See 28.

edited 24th Oct '16 2:48:07 PM by Sugarp1e1

Ryoko.
InigoMontoya Virile Member from C:∖Windows∖System32∖ Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Virile Member
#1183: Oct 26th 2016 at 1:05:21 PM

I'll be replying tonight or tomorrow morning. Thanks for your patience and sorry for the wait.

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."
Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
InigoMontoya Virile Member from C:∖Windows∖System32∖ Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Virile Member
#1185: Oct 27th 2016 at 12:06:16 PM

Okay, we'll pretend you're in the US and it's still morning there.
Morning again in America?grin
1. I completely sympathise with your plight here. Contradictory feedback is a bitch. Ultimately, the decision is yours to make.
2. Given the importance, I think it would be better to elaborate a bit.
3. Yes, on reflection it is grammatically correct, though a past tense would sound better (to me, at least).
9. Yes! Especially a teenage boy and his mother!
10. Yes, it's a statement that's always true so you can use the present. See point 3.
14. Yes, exactly. "Really?! I can really leave?!" is not intense enough given the magnitude of what's happening. He'd been confined for quite a long time, hadn't he?
15. You need to tell the reader that, otherwise it's confusing.
17. Just me being clumsy ;)
18. So I expect she doesn't know she's being targeted, otherwise, given how little Tedrick knows about her appearance, ditching the dress would make her much more difficult to find.
22. If you need inspiration, you can start with the countless pictures (of varying quality) you can find on the Internet of what a wormhole would look like...
NB: not describing it at all is okay if you want to convey that he's used to this mode of transportation. In that case, though, you probably need a name for it.
27. I assume inanimate objects can be targeted too.
30. The lines immediately before strongly suggest that he doesn't know, so the reader may be getting the impression that Denko is playing dumb. That's something you don't want.
31. Could go either way (he's also had more time to read). In any case, this is an interesting point, and you should try to slip one or two observation about the psychological effects of his confinement.
35. Poor phrasing on my part, sorry. I meant, it's a good idea to narrate retrospectively from a point in time when he knows more, and tell the reader about it, it's just that "I didn't know it, but..." is clunky.
38. I mean, is there a contradiction between the two? I don't see it.
39. No. "I was only following orders", or words to that effect usually invite references to a certain mustachioed Austrian from the first half of the 20th century...
40. All right, I see it now but it's mightily obscure as written. Needs clarification.
41. Officially, yes. But if Denko isn't willing to attack him that's meaningless. He could still help him covertly. That's what I meant. Maybe you should have him tell Tedrick that he's officially a personna non grata and they won't be able to meet out in the open in the future.

All the best,

IM

edited 27th Oct '16 12:08:37 PM by InigoMontoya

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."
Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1186: Oct 27th 2016 at 7:47:05 PM

2. Done.

3. Well, I think if he were to use past tense in that context it would imply Denkō died at some point.

9. Would it help if I mention that Ted's an All-Loving Hero?

10. Considering he already disowned them at the time he's narrating this, using past tense makes more sense in this context.

14. Maybe something like the scene in Hotel Transylvania when Mavis finally gets to leave?

15. Done.

17. Okay.

18. She doesn't know the dress is a dead giveaway. Besides, the eggshell necklace is more proof than the dress, hence why she almost never wears it. There's also a third piece of evidence which I won't spoil.

22. Dragons can hop between dimensions but if it's not the Life Dimension they won't be able to survive in it for long. Ted's seen Denkō open portals before.

27. True.

30. I'll see what I can do.

31. I think you just gave me an idea for Ted's Hidden Depths.

35. Okay, now I get it.

38. I'll see what I can do.

39. I knew who you were talking about but I still Googled "orders are orders" at the time I was typing this just to make sure. Now I get what you were trying to say: I made a historical parallel and didn't even notice! grin

40. Done.

41. So a Friendly Enemy kind of scenario? That's what I was going for anyway. I'll see what I can do.

edited 27th Oct '16 7:53:09 PM by Sugarp1e1

Ryoko.
InigoMontoya Virile Member from C:∖Windows∖System32∖ Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Virile Member
#1187: Oct 28th 2016 at 1:25:14 AM

Re: the tense question, I'm really starting to doubt the answer I gave you. As I've mentioned before, while I like to think I have a good command of English, it isn't my mother tongue.

Could other readers please chime in? When do you think it's acceptable to write descriptions in the present tense when the narration is in the past? And when does using the past tense imply that the person is dead or that the statement is no longer true?

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
#1188: Oct 28th 2016 at 4:53:01 PM

I cant see the comments on my phone, can you give me a page/paragraph refdrence?

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1189: Oct 28th 2016 at 7:00:27 PM

I already edited the story on Google Docs. Check the link above if you want to see the revision.

As for the comments, I listed them according to their order (marked in blue on Inigo's document.)

Ryoko.
Cid Campeador Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Campeador
#1190: Oct 31st 2016 at 1:40:47 PM

Oh noes! Today is the last day to review Sugarp1e 1's work, right? Damn, I though I had more time.

Well, expect at least my thoughts on at least the Prologue later today. sad

InigoMontoya Virile Member from C:∖Windows∖System32∖ Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Virile Member
#1191: Oct 31st 2016 at 3:20:36 PM

It's a minimum, I think. I do hope that we will continue a bit longer in this case.

@De Marquis: I'm sorry I didn't see your comment earliersad I suppose it's moot at this point...

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."
Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1192: Oct 31st 2016 at 3:54:48 PM

I agree with Inigo; I've already edited the document.

Ryoko.
Cid Campeador Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Campeador
#1193: Oct 31st 2016 at 6:00:27 PM

Well, these are my thoughts on the prologue. Hope it helps somewhat.

1) In the first two paragraphs, Tedrick hasn't seen his family for about four months and the text implies he's not home. However, starting with the fifth paragraph, he's still locked up in his home with his mom. Which is it?

2) Is the prologue supposed to be a flashback? I think we need something to mark the transition between the present day events and the flashback itself, otherwise the beginning looks very confusing.

First, she was stricter than you can ever imagine...

Ever heard of the Bishonen trope?

3) Is the narrator addressing the audience? I don't have a problem with this (well, I do, but I admit it could be done right), but you seem to forget about this little gimmick after the opening paragraphs. I'd suggest to either add more instances of the narrator addressing the reader or remove them altogether. Either way, be consistent.

I'm not a kid anymore. I thought. I'm sixteen, damn it! I'm no prisoner!

4) The "I thought" tag is redundant. We're already inside Tedrick's head; we don't need him to inform us when he is thinking what we're already seeing.

To make it work as a thought inside the flashback (if it is a flashback), change the tense of the verbs. I.e. "I wasn't a kid anymore. I was sixteen, damn it! I was no prisoner!"

"Hey! Are you still asleep? Get up!"

5) The beginning of a fantasy work where the protagonist is waking up? Really?

He's this lean guy, about twice my age and a little too pretty for his own good.

6) The "about twice my age" line doesn't tell us much considering we don't know anything about the narrator at this point.

Ever heard of the Bishonen trope?

7) I would advise against mentioning tropes and using other pop culture references in your work. What happens when the reader doesn't know what Bishōnen is? It might break the immersion.

"Shut up." I said.

8) There are some rules you've got to follow when using dialogue tags:

  • When the dialogue tag is before the dialogue, you:
    • Use a comma after the dialogue tag,
    • Capitalise the first letter if the dialogue is the beginning of a sentence.
    • End the dialogue with the appropriate punctuation, but keep it inside the quotation marks (if you're using American English).
  • When the dialogue tag is after the dialogue, you:
    • Still keep the proper punctuation inside the quotation marks.
    • Do not capitalise the first letter of the tag unless it begins with a proper noun.
    • End the dialogue tag with appropriate punctuation.
  • When the tag is in the middle of the dialogue, you:
    • Use a comma before the dialogue tag and put it inside the quotation marks.
    • Do not capitalise the first letter of the tag unless it begins with a proper noun.
    • Use a comma after the dialogue tag, OUTSIDE of quotation marks, to reintroduce the dialogue.
    • End the dialogue with the appropriate punctuation.

9) If the prologue is a flashback, then everything in the narration and the dialogue tags (not the dialogue itself) has to be in the past tense. There are several instances where the tags are in the present tense and then the normal narration in the past, and vice versa.

"Even so…" She continues. "Your performance yesterday proves to me that you are ready."

"Humans are foolish," Mom tells me. "but they're surprisingly intelligent. They're technologically more advanced than us dragons."

"But I'd like to see them use magic." Denko added.

"Good luck, Tedrick." Mom says.

"What's the matter, Ted?" He tells me. "Can't fly? Oh right, you don't have wings. What a shame."

My body goes numb and I fall to the ground.

10)We know little about the place beyond having yellow bricks adorned with garnets. What else is there? How does the place affect how the narrator is feeling? Is there nothing remarkable about the place besides the yellow bricks?

To be blunt, while the dialogue is engaging, the rest of the narration seems a little bland. I'm a firm believer than in fantasy is acceptable to stop the action somewhat to set the mood and, well, the setting. Things don't have to have to happen in white, featureless rooms. Adding descriptions about the world itself is like the spices you add when preparing food: too little makes the food bland; too much makes it inedible.

My mom was sitting in her throne right in front of us. She was in her human form, wearing her usual yellow dress with cream trims. Her round, soft face makes it look like she’s in her late twenties or early thirties but she's much much older. Her dragon form fits her better; no smoke and mirrors, just a hundred tons of yellow, scaly reality.

11) You change from past tense to present midway through this paragraph. While it could be correct (first you're describing where she was in the past and then you're describing how she looks in the present), it's somewhat confusing and it could be distracting for your readers.

12)"…in her late twenties or early thirties" tells us little about her appearance. I'd suggest being more specific so we can get a better picture of what she looks like (no wrinkles, glowing face, rosy cheeks, whatever). Or just keep it at "she looked really young" if you want simplicity.

"Okay!" I nodded eagerly and immediately ran to the door, but she steps in front of me, her wings unfurled. "What the—"

13)Does she have wings on her human form or did she transform sometime during the conversation? Whatever it is, I think we deserve to know.

"...Projecting much?" His words were snarky, as always, but his tone was quiet. Broken even. "You're not coming back, are you?" I shook my head and the lump dissolved as my eyes teared up. He laughed as a sad smile appeared on his face. "Doing what you want without a care. Just like lightning itself." His smile fell. "I can't keep this from your mother. Are sure about this?" I nodded. "Fine. I'll let you go this time. But as of this moment, we're enemies. Remember that next time we meet. Until then..." Denko turned around, his back facing me, and stared at the full moon. "...Take care of yourself, Tedrick." He unfurled his wings and, with large, strong flaps, disappeared back into the Lightning Dimension.

14) This paragraph is a mess. The action and description tags are getting lost amidst all that dialogue. Either break it off in smaller dialogue paragraphs either by using a single apostrophe to denote a character is still talking or by putting the action in separate paragraphs and returning to the dialogue with a "he continued".

15) Finally, I feel you missed an opportunity to describe what it feels for Ted to fly during the second half of the prologue. While his interactions with Denko are good and entertaining, I would add more description of what he's seeing or an internal monologue describing what he's feeling at the moment.. But that's just something I like to see in the genre. You can disregard it completely if it's not your style.

Anyway, I'm sorry I couldn't be more specific. My day was more chaotic than what I expected. waii

edited 31st Oct '16 6:23:56 PM by Cid

Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1194: Nov 1st 2016 at 5:58:29 AM

1. The first paragraph is in the present day. All of the paragraphs afterwards up until end are in a flashback.

2. See above.

3. I wrote this imagining that Tedrick was writing a memoir.

4. If a line of narration is in italics, it's Tedrick inner monologue during the scene. I can see that it can be confusing in this scene so I'll cut it.

5. Well, Tropes Are Tools, right? It was either that or Tedrick reading something, and that's pretty overdone too. Besides, I can't think of anything he could be reading besides propaganda (which might clue him in that the dragons are evil) or a real life manga (which would a pop-culture reference.)

6. Tedrick mentions near the beginning that he's sixteen. That would make Denkō around thirty-two. I'm afraid to describe further; don't want to end up with Purple Prose.

7. Noted. Cut.

8. Thanks for that! smile

9. Tenses are my greatest weakness. Fixed.

10. Again, I'm afraid I'll end up with Purple Prose. The first half of the Prolouge is in Inazuma's castle so we don't see what's outside. While I imagine the Lightning Dimension being just like the Life Dimension except with no technology and with a yellowish tint on everything, I also imagine Tedrick wouldn't know the former isn't "normal" considering he's never left the dimension.

11. Fixed. I made it all past tense.

12. I went with simplicity.

13. That was left over from the previous version when I had Tedrick explain the difference between himself, a human, and a dragon. I'll re-add it but in Inazuma's description.

14. I knew something was wrong. Fixed.

15. I'll go for an inner monologue. But I noticed that you were critiquing the previous version of that scene (Denkō doesn't call Tedrick his enemy in the new version, among other differences). You don't have to, but I think it'll be better if you read the new version.

I'll repost the link once I apply the changes. Thanks for all that! smile

Ryoko.
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
#1195: Nov 1st 2016 at 10:22:12 AM

Looks like Sugar is getting plenty of useful feedback, so lets not sweat it.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Cid Campeador Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Campeador
#1196: Nov 1st 2016 at 5:53:47 PM

I'll check Chapters 1 and 2 next.

It happened on a Friday, March 11, 2016.

1) This is a decent opening line, even better than the one in the prologue, but it has the potential to be better. You can try to be a little bit more descriptive to make us want to read more, but still vague enough to not spoil the rest of the story.

I met her on a Friday...

Friday, March 11, 2016, was a very... interesting day. Yeah, let's go with that.

My four months among the humans were rather boring, but everything changed when the fire nation attacked on a Friday...

2) In the second paragraph, your description of the place sounds like a grocery list. Try to get rid of the passive voice and worry less about describing what Ted sees and focus instead on describing how he feels based on what he is seeing. Is the diner cosy? Does he think the decoration is tacky? Boring perhaps?

Maybe have him compare the decorations to what he was used to seeing in the castle.

... on your right hand when as you walk in...

... door that leads led to the kitchen...

... waitresses there wear wore blue dresses..

... I have had yet to see one waiter.

3) I see you've got some trouble with keeping your tenses consistent. Have you considered dropping the Framing Device (the memoir you mentioned) and instead stick to present tense narration? It seems that "present" is the default for you, considering you keep coming back to it. This has worked for other authors I worked with in the past, so it might work for you.

It was still a bit early, probably like seven or something.

4) Besides the passive voice at the start of the sentence, I've got to ask, is it seven in the morning or in the afternoon? A little clarification could help set up the rest of the scene.

...there was only about 6 other people there.

5) Passive voice again. Also, I'd suggest to write the numbers down: six instead of 6; ten instead of 10, etc.

I'm a regular there and come there for breakfast every Friday.

6) If you keep it as another flashback of sorts then it should be: "I was a regular at <name of the diner>note ; I had my breakfast there every Friday, no exceptions."

If you keep it in present tense then it could go something like: "I'm a regular here and come for breakfast every Friday." Do note that there doesn't work if the narration is immediate, and the second "here" note  looks redundant.

... what better way to start the weekend off than with breakfast at a place with food that looks 10 times better than the place?

7) That sentence looks odd. Try instead: is there a better way to start the weekend off than with breakfast at a place where the food looks ten times better than the place itself?

8) Is there a point to the next 11 paragraphs after point 7? The conversation between Ted and the waitress seems rather boring if not outright pointless. (More on this later).

Fluffy yellow scrambled eggs, four large strips of crispy dark red bacon, toasty golden brown hash browns and and a medium glass of orange juice. They were all so rich and flavourful I had scarfed them down before I even knew what happened.

9) If you can describe food so vividly, I don't see why you can't describe people or places in a similar manner. Don't get me wrong, this description is pretty good. I'm just wondering why you seem so averse at describing stuff.

I know you said you want to avoid Purple Prose, but I'm not asking you to describe every brick in every building like Lovecraft, or to dedicate a paragraph per tree as if you were Tolkien. Just be more descriptive. You don't even have to use big words to describe things, you can also use simple language and keep it from becoming all flowery and stuff.

If I can't convince you that Purple Prose is not the worst thing ever, then look at this line from its opposite trope:

It's witty when effective. Otherwise, it's dull. Use it carefully.

The waitress' cheerful demeanour quickly turned dark.

10) Passive voice. Try "The waitress lost her cheerful demeanour before I could finish the sentence."

She went into the kitchen again.

11) This should go into another paragraph. It is not part of the previous lines of dialogue.

He said venomously.

12) Adverbs are evil. Okay, not really, but here's some homework for you. Whenever you find yourself using an adverb, mark it and then try to replace it with something more descriptive. Instead of "venomously" try "He spat the words at me."

"What?!" I just had said I can't 'couldn't pay!

13) Watch! Your! Tenses! Also, as a rule, you're only allowed to use one exclamation point every ten thousand words.

I could hear someone approaching behind me.

14) I've noticed you use "could + verb" too much. It would sound better and with more strength if you change it for the simple past tense form of the verb. Instead of "could hear" try "heard". It's more immediate and, though subtle, it changes the way the text is read.

15) Ted has super speed. There's no mention of this before now. I want to warn you to be very careful when revealing powers. It's easy to fall into the trap of giving new powers to the hero when things go bad for him. I'd suggest to either reveal it all at once or limit what kind of powers he has and instead use them in creative ways.

I could continue with my point by point analysis of Chapter 2 but I'm feeling kind of lazy. Day of the Dead and all that.

Besides my general laziness, there's also the fact that the only "problems" I saw in Chapter 2 it's the same I've pointed out before: abuse of the passive voice, some dialogue tags are in the present tense when the narration is in past tense (and vice-versa), and the use of adverbs when a few more words would work better ("Aw! I saw that! You did do this!" He said playfully.).

edited 1st Nov '16 9:45:40 PM by Cid

Cid Campeador Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Campeador
#1197: Nov 1st 2016 at 11:02:03 PM

Okay, after rewriting this six tims, I finally figured out why I had so much trouble with my critique: you're not writing a fantasy novel, you're writing a fantasy anime. Having established that, I think I can now give proper criticism.

You're a good author and you've got strengths and weaknesses. The secret here is to use your strengths to cover your weaknesses.

First off, your biggest strength is that you excel at writing engaging dialogues and creating fun, fast-paced action scenes. As for your weaknesses, I'd say it's your use and misuse of tenses (you go from past to present on a whim), your lack of descriptions of anything outside action sequences (part of what made the fight in Chapter 2 so good was the livid descriptions), and your weak beginning.

Let's go one by one:

Tenses: This one is easy to solve. I'd suggest to drop the framing device and pick a tense, either past or present. You are Tedrick now and you're telling me the story. Are you telling the story as it happened ("I was there, I kicked butts, I won") or as it's happening ("I walk there, I kick your butt, so I win")? Since you excel at action sequences, I'd suggest you pick the present tense narration and never look back. Since it's more immediate, it'll give you the sense of urgency at which you excel and you won't have to delve too much into descriptions, since the narrator doesn't seem like the kind of guy who stops to smell the flowers. I also get the impression that present tense is the more natural to you.

Descriptions: In animated works, japanese or otherwise, the creator has the advantage of using a visual medium to tell their story. They can show places and set the mood through lighting and filters (e.g. a blue background is melancholic), they can also show what the characters look like and show emotions through their movements and facial expressions.

In literature, we don't have those tools. We rely on nothing but words to show everything we wish to show. As I said in my previous post, you don't have to go all Lovecraft or Tolkien, but you lose nothing by using every tool (as limited as they may seem) at your disposal. If you're having trouble, start by describing everything in a simple manner, even if it looks like a grocery list. Then, after you finish your first draft, go back and cut what doesn't work. In other words, say everything and don't worry about how it looks; as you gain more experience you'll eventually find the right words to say what you want to say.

Weak beginnings: To be blunt, the Prologue and Chapter 1 are dull. My advice would be to remove them entirely. Start your novel with the second chapter and work from there. Personally, I felt that Chapter 2 is where the story starts gaining strength and where your writing begins to shine.

As for the information found in those first two chapters, I believe it can be included into the text later on as it becomes relevant (and in small doses) without changing much.

Another reason why I suggest doing this it's because you seem to be stuck trying to polish these few chapters when you haven't even finished a first draft. To be a little bit melodramatic, they're holding you back.


Finally, I recommend you to read web novels, especially those in the superhero genre, to get an idea about how you should write the kind of work you want to write. Read the good ones and the bad ones and learn how they describe things, how they write their action sequences, how they manage their character development and how they deal with the slowers parts of the narrative.

The episodic format of these works will also help you understand how those authors deal with the fact that they only have one chance to engage their potential readers.

That'd be, I believe, one of the closest mediums and genres closer to what you want to write.

Good luck!

Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1198: Nov 2nd 2016 at 11:14:30 AM

I cut the Prolouge and Chapter 1 like you suggested, but now I'm afraid the lack of context about what happened beforehand might confuse the reader.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-F7tuQcAfkdH0l3ioq6oFxHn3xtzVTbjc9L1_I3Zx8A

Ryoko.
Cid Campeador Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Campeador
#1199: Nov 2nd 2016 at 12:46:38 PM

I agree it can look somewhat confusing now. Let's see if we can fix it with some minor edits.

I am in the middle of nowhere, with nothing but pines trees extending around me, feeling breathless and exhausted. I'd just released all that pent up anger that'd consumed me but minutes ago and now I feel... how do I feel?

Though I can't move yet, I my body is still trembling as if the lightning was still flowing through me. And I still feel like I am one with the lightning, like I can take on anybody. Mom, Denko or even that crazy man who wanted to call the cops on me just because I couldn't pay five dollars. Five freaking dollars!

Okay, now that sensation is slowly fading away and leaving just exhaustion, sadness and relief. Yet I also feel... happy? Yeah, happy is the right word.

I mean, I'm not hurt. Before, when I'd use my powers to try to escape my cell at Mom's, I'd strain my muscles until the pain became unbearable. But this time I only feel like the wind has been knocked out of me... and that's about it. Was I getting better at this?

I wonder if Denko would be impressed if he saw me like this. Nah, he'd probably do that smug smile of his like—

"Are you okay?"

I look up to find a boy arund my age and height with gray hair and metal mask. His outfit is silvery gray and form fitting, so much that I'm somewhat disturbed by how built he is for his age. The mask covers most of his face except for his left eye. I can see that it's a brown eye. I can also see he's looking at me suspiciously.

I'd thought I was alone. In fact, I had looked for a place away from the humans, not an easy task here in New york, in fact. Where had he come from? Well, good thing my strength was returning to me. Just in case, of course.

"I'm fine," I tell him. "Who are you again?"

Ahem. This is just very basic idea of how you could write this new beginning. Just look at the text you've got now and try to answer the questions that pop up as you read it.

For me it was: "where is he?" "why is he kneeling and out of breath?" "why does he mention not being hurt?" "what does he mean by "escape"? Etc.

You don't even have to give concrete answers. Vague ones and small hints also work. Just... uhmm... practice and see what works and what doesn't.cool

edited 2nd Nov '16 12:48:38 PM by Cid

ewolf2015 MIA from south Carolina Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
MIA
#1200: Nov 2nd 2016 at 1:15:57 PM

hey, can i post two works to review or not?

MIA

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