The Constructive Criticism Thread

After reading what War and Fridge had to say about Seilaan's characterization, I don't think I should be trying to tell you how she comes across in the text. It's entirely possible that I've been interacting with her for so damn long the best descriptor I can come up with for her overall personality is 'just Seilaan'.

But I can tell you some kind-of meta-stuff about how Seilaan comes across to me in particular, because it's something I've been thinking about ever since the first time I heard you ask us over in the CDTs how she came across.

The 'moody average teen' descriptor does make a lot of sense. Like, so much sense I feel kind of dumb for not noticing it after five frickin' years. But that might just be typical for YA protagonists. I don't like reading about moody teens in general because I think they're a boring character type and I just plain don't empathize with them (mostly because I find them whiny), but interacting with Seilaan over the course of five years may have not only desensitized me to her particular brand of teenage moodiness, but also kept me from forming a big-picture overall view of her characterization. I suppose I've been watching her characterization drift so gradually over the last five years that I don't really know what she's supposed to be anymore, or what kind of character you're aiming for.

That may be the heart of the issue- you weren't sure what you wanted her to be until recently. But it seems that two blind critiques have already converged on the overall descriptor of 'moody teen'.

"informed trait of being a scientist, they are more of a jock"

Those two aren't mutually exclusive...

No, they aren't but I am definitely getting more of a Seelie Booth than a Temperance Brennan

Dang, a lot happened while I was offline working on class projects. Long post, hold on tight.

So we have some more votes for the "excerpts bad" side. I'm kind of leaning towards getting rid of them myself at this point in time, but because a lot of people do like them, part of me still has hope that they'll work out better if I choose more compelling/ useful information to reveal. Probably going to hold off a bit on making the final decision.

CG:

I have heard variations of this from so many different people on an older draft and I'm this close to tearing my hair out because apparently I still don't know how to fix it. I think it might be clumsy exposition. After a few more of those comments piled up last year, I went through Chapter Two again, which features a different narrator in an entirely different part of the setting. Exposition seems better integrated, and there might be a little less of it as well. No one has had these concerns about Chapter Two's narrator. Following that, I completely scrapped that version of Chapter One and tried out this one instead with an entirely new opening scene so I could have a more fresh approach, I guess, with all those things in mind. So it looks like I either misidentified the cause of the problem or didn't fix it well enough. Because this is the first chapter, I do feel inclined to be more exposition-y than usual because I tend to confuse people, so that might be part of it.

To help me get a better handle on this, do you think you'd be able to pick out passages that exemplify this issue? It's okay if you can't. I have asked this of people before and they would just shrug and say "it's just kind of a feeling I got."

Yes, it is my intention for the reader to be thrown off a little at first, but I'm hoping that as people keep reading, they will get used to it and not having this information won't feel like a big deal. But I'm afraid the fact that I have narrators from other cultures who do assume genders might be detrimental to that goal.

I don't know how that's supposed to make me feel.

Yeeeeah, sorry about the errors. I go blind to small things like that if I've been reading something over too much. They just turn invisible.

Those are definitely some questions I was hoping to leave readers with at the end of the chapter, but I may need to describe the setting a bit more. Don't have much to say to anything else you said. Your description of Seilaan contains things that I wanted to convey, but not all of them.

You confused me a lot. Please bear with me.

What do you mean by "obtuse" description?

I guess within the chapter I should communicate that Renesians have different ideas about—

Uhm... okay? It almost feels like you forgot to complete this thought. I really don't know what you're trying to tell me here.

I kind of explained the general goal of these excerpts (which precede every chapter) in my initial post. Do you have more specific questions?

I have never seen Bones, so those references don't mean anything to me. I do think I can find a way to integrate her using more of her science/ magic knowledge in this chapter, at any rate.

Yes, there are three narrators in this book. Two more will be added even later.

She doesn't have a crush on them.

You say "three" without specifying who the third person is, so I'm guessing you're talking about Colonel Xue. They're not close family. Jin's adoptive parents, Colonel Xue, and one of Seilaan's parents are all childhood friends, so Jin, Seilaan, and Colonel Xue know each other very well.

Within a few chapters, it's revealed that Seilaan's parents sent her to this base for her first solo inspection to test how she would act in public around their closest family friends. Colonel Xue was supposed to tell them if Seilaan did well or not. There is actually a reason for Jin being at this particular base, but that's not discussed until way, way later.

The phrase "valley girl speak" makes me think of very specific and distinctive speech patterns and tone. I'm curious about why you would describe her that way.

I'm assuming you're referring to her informed interest in science, but the phrasing here makes it sound like Seilaan herself is consciously faking an interest in science.

Everything else is about right, but I'm not sure where "socially unaware" is coming from or what exactly you mean by it. Could you point out the moments that gave you that impression?

I'll give that a shot.

This "moody average teen" evaluation is extremely worrying to me. I mean, yeah, she's depressed and has PTSD. Some moodiness is unavoidable. It'd be an insult to real people with depression and PTSD if it wasn't a big enough presence in her life. But that can't be all she is, and the use of the word average is what makes me worry that the moodiness is taking over and turning her into a stereotype, and that's an insult to real people with these struggles, too. I guess it doesn't help that she sees Angelus in this chapter and has that bit of "I'm such a failure" introspection at the end.

Here is a non-exhaustive list of things I wanted Seilaan to be like in this chapter. Non-exhaustive because as usual, I feel like I'm forgetting something. And these aren't all of the facets of her character by any means, just what I wanted to put here.

She knows what she's supposed to do, as a public official in training, is eager to please her parents, but she still has a long way to go before she becomes smooth and charismatic. She tries to cultivate a friendly, approachable persona for her subjects. She considers asking for help to be a show of weakness. She's somewhat anxious, with a perfectionist streak, and this causes her to overthink things sometimes. How many of these things actually showed?

Was this at all enjoyable overall? Would you keep reading?

Jin is going to be a major character by the end of Part I so it might be nice to hear some thoughts on them, but I suspect that there wasn't enough of them in this chapter for anyone to form much of an opinion.

Darnit! I used the word obtuse. I definitely meant to use the word obscure. I get them confused. I will read over the rest of your post later.

obscure: adjective. Subject to a process of obfuscation. Made unclear, difficult to parse.

But like I said, early on I had difficulty reading the text, as if it was obfuscated. But I do not think that is actually the case.

...And I still got the word wrong. I meant abstruse. :/

Okay, I'm back. Completing the thought. Yep, I forgot to do that.

But what you were saying is pretty much that. New readers are going to expect certain things from a monarch in training. You will need to communicate that this is totally different. You are communicating that this is totally different to a degree. But slowly.

I think the word use may be key. Possibly downgrade the royalty to nobility. The kingdom to independent fiefdom or territory. Communicate that this is a ceremonial role and not a traditional role if this is the case. Communicate first, that this is more like a republic, or maybe a meritocracy, then after that that it has a king, or people are going to apply the model of a kingdom to your island nation and then be shocked to learn their mental image is way off.

When I sad I agree, I was attempting to highlight the fact that you should not be making the character more prince(ss)ly, based on what I read. But you then need to explain how the character fits the setting.

I have seen these kinds of excerpts before. They are a modified version of the Epigraph. But the way you did them, it felt like a cross between Epigraph and Vignette. They might work if innovated upon a bit.

They feel like they don't really serve a purpose. Now, if you go more opening quote, this is good. They usually end up feeling like fluff that serves no more purpose than to sound important and set the mood. But if you want to swing toward the Myst style random snippets of journals, you will need to do it differently. Go in the opposite direction. Make them longer, and more subtle.

You are correct about the third. The coincidence that three childhood friends end up on the same military base in this way is going to feel coincidental to some of your audience.

And they really do come across as crushing on Jin.

When I say 'Valley girl speak' what I mean is a very specific variety of casual language that I confuse with the former very specific variety of casual language. Again, sorry. This was me using the wrong words.

Now, neither of these casual language styles is a perfect fit for your character. But I am getting a surprisingly strong casual language flavour from them, even considering their age.

Do I think she is faking an interest in science? No. But I think this because you have said they are not. If I was reading this on my own, I would not be surprised if it turned out later that they were not really a fan of the technical arts. This is one of the things I think a chapter or two of exposure would clear up. I get it mainly from their word use and language choice. They are not precise.

Socially unaware is a sense I got from their fashion faux pas, their smiling as they bowed, their internal thoughts as they were examining the messenger, the details they noticed and internal thoughts during the interrogation, and the details they noticed and internal thoughts during the dinner. And probably most shockingly, their lack of prescience concerning the likely certainty that everyone already 'knows' they and Jin are doing it behind closed doors.

...You refer to her as a she. I think you may have run into the problem of The All-Concealing "I". Which you definitely need to keep an eye on, considering. Is she not one of these people?

Did you communicate these things? She knows what she's supposed to do (mostly), as a public official in training (yes), is eager to please her parents (not really), but she still has a long way to go before she becomes smooth and charismatic (she comes off as young, if that is what you mean). She tries to cultivate a friendly, approachable persona for her subjects (She comes off as naturally friendly, no trace of cultivation). She considers asking for help to be a show of weakness (not clear either way). She's somewhat anxious (mostly), with a perfectionist streak (not clear either way), and this causes her to overthink things sometimes (not clear either way).

As I said, I thought the second half was well put together. The plot was perfect. The setting was perfect.

Jin comes off as careful and socially aware, with a crush on the viewpoint character. Due to limited screen time, I cannot say much more.

It may be a mix of the present tense, the lack of dynamic language, and Seilaan herself that's doing it for me. I feel like I'm some kind of invisible ghost following her around that spontaneously came into existence in the story the moment Seilaan's part starts. She's the only one who knows that I'm there and that I don't know what's going on, so she stops after most lines of dialogue and actions to telepathically give me context. The present tense places a lot of attention on the action of telling the story, since nobody describes what is happening right now in real-time with anywhere near the level of detail that she does, and with all the context. I don't feel like I'm actually 'experiencing' the story the way most other novels make me feel- I feel like she's just describing the events of the story in real-time rather than fully telling a story. Except it doesn't actually feel real-time because almost every time, it feels like she's stopped the story to give me background, while I'm just floating there in invisible ghost-form trying to look over her shoulder and see if she's making me miss something.

I'm sorry if the above doesn't make much sense, but when I went back to see if I could mark anything in particular, it turned out to be an overall thing, and that's the sense I got. It's especially prevalent during the part of the chapter that comes before Seilaan and Jin's duel is prematurely ended. She forgets about ghost-me for the most part, save for a few bits in particular that I marked, and really starts showing the story more once Angelus crash-lands and the plot gets moving.

The heart of the issue is that I don't exactly know what you're aiming for. I may just be projecting problems I've had with my own writing that reflect in how I handle and give critique, but that's the heart of what I was trying to say.

Not knowing what I'm intending to do when I write has been a problem plaguing my writing (both in the CDTs and solo) pretty much since I started, and I always wonder, when I read other writers' reactions to their critique, how much they have this problem, too. I've read a lot of critiques on other people's writing, and the writers usually don't say much in response other than 'yep, thanks, I'll think about it', compared to my monster-responses that run through my thought process and intentions a page or two back in this thread. It may be that most other writers just don't talk about their writing the way I do when I get critique, or people aren't public about this problem and generally work through it by themselves if they even have it, or I'm just weird and projecting my insecurities. This is just what goes through my head whenever I critique anybody's writing.

I marked this on the doc, but I'll say it again- the last two paragraphs absolutely do not read like standard teenage moodiness. The stuff she brings up are made to read like legit issues way bigger than her that anybody would be within their right to be worried about.

The moodiness is, again, a sense that I really get more strongly before her duel is ended, and whenever her mind wanders away from her duties (like when she zones out during dinner) and sort of in an overall sense with her focusing repeatedly on all of the stuff she's not allowed to do here and would rather be doing. What could be happening is that she's reading like an average teen with the associated moodiness at certain times, and at other times like a young woman and politician with some real legit problems in her life that anybody would feel bothered about.

Slightly, but only now that you've mentioned it. I think the stuff I describe in the first section of my post, the overall feeling that she's just describing the events obscures a lot of her personality.

I don't think she's shown interacting too much, or in a very meaningful way with any subjects that aren't also friends of her own or of her family, and all of her worrying about not seeming too friendly with them gives the overall impression that she's afraid to seem friendly in general, to a reader who doesn't know that she's aiming to do the opposite.

Her dislike for asking for help is maybe implied at most, rather than outright shown. Looking back, it looks like it's implied a bit when they're leaving the interrogation room and Xue tells Seilaan that she's always there if she wants to talk. It didn't read like Seilaan declined for any particular reason, other than maybe that she simply didn't want to recount those events.

I'm not going to comment on the anxiety, perfectionism, and overthinking because I think my perception of how she shows those things may have been colored by the CDTs.

edited 11th Jun '16 3:48:00 PM by CrystalGlacia

I'm sorry if these questions are annoying, but I'd rather beat a dead horse than risk wildly misunderstanding something or jumping to the wrong conclusions. Thank you for your patience with my processing issues.

If I don't quote/ explicitly address something just assume that I've noted it and don't need further clarification.

War:

I think the source of a lot of my confusion is that you're very economical with words, but it may be coming at the cost of clarity. When I finish reading your posts I feel like I have more questions than answers. It's also possible that this has more to do with my sucky reading comprehension, but that's why I ask questions.

I decided to throw the reader straight into a scenario where Seilaan is doing her job so the reader could draw their own conclusions about Renesian nobility in that way. Would it work better if I have her try to recall things she observed her parents doing on these visits and why they do it, making it clearer that she has an established standard in mind?

I can't downgrade royalty to nobility when it was nobility to begin with, so I'm guessing you mean that I should be keeping the reader from incorrectly assuming that it's royalty.

What do each of these bolded pronouns refer to?

Would it help if I established early on that Seliaan's parents sent her there on purpose?

I guess I was laying it on too thick with Seilaan impulsively teasing them and having her thoughts drift to them when they're in the vicinity. I thought it would be natural to some degree because besides Jin and Colonel Xue, the base is full of strangers. I could also note that since Seilaan hasn't seen them in a very long time, she's curious about how they're doing/ what they're like now.

So if I'm reading this right, you're saying her voice isn't compatible with the notion that she has interest in science? Could you elaborate/ clarify?

I asked you what you meant by "socially unaware" and you didn't specify, unless I missed it. Is it unprofessional conduct?

Based on your other comments, the first two things gave you this impression because the fact that she could choose her own clothes and her friendliness went against your expectations of nobility, but I'm planning to fix that by sooner establishing what Renesian nobility is like.

Which messenger, the one that told her that Colonel Xue wanted her to identify Angelus? What was "socially unaware" about that moment and the interrogation? I think I know a few of the things from the dinner that you're referring to, but could you list those as well to be sure?

I looked up the word "prescience" and I'm still not confident that I can read that sentence correctly. Could you reword it?

Considering what, exactly?

The way she handles gender identity is slightly unusual for Renesians and the reasons are discussed later, but the takeaway is she will accept she/ her or they/ them in languages that have gendered pronouns.

I looked at the comments on the doc and I think I get the ghost thing now. It'll take some careful editing and slapping myself on the wrist if I notice myself falling back into it, but that problem will hopefully be going away soon.

I feel that I could actually tell you, if the question were broken down into more specific bits. Is it something that you think I should be making clear in the writing itself?

Man, I fucked up. I thought "moody teen" meant she was coming off like she was in the middle of an emo phase.

That aside, that duality isn't totally off the mark of what I was hoping to do with her character. She's a young person who's been put into an adult role that she hasn't grown into yet, so I think it makes sense for her not to fully read as one or the other. But your description makes it sound like those two things are noticeably disjointed, like they're two entirely different people, which I don't want.

I am also worried about how I portray her in the threads (actually, I feel like I write everyone very inconsistently in the threads, but Seilaan being so slippery doesn't help) so your input on this would be valuable, but maybe we should save this particular discussion for whenever Dream ends.

edited 12th Jun '16 3:16:01 AM by SnowyFoxes

CrystalGlacia gives me an alternate theory for why I had difficulty reading the first bits of her narration in post #1007. The first person present combined with a lack of dynamic language and exposition in place of description kept me from engaging with the story right away.

I have always been economical with words. This is probably the primary factor that led to the loss of my ability to write for many years.

In that case, I think the solution is surprisingly simple. Neglect to mention that she is a princess.

The role she fills is not accurately described by that word. So instead, continue to do what you are doing. Show the world and her role in it. Then later, tell the audience that her role is princess.

Yes.

They feel like they don't really serve a purpose. Now, if you go more opening quote, feeling like it doesn't serve a purpose is good. Opening Quotes usually end up feeling like fluff that serves no more purpose than to sound important and set the mood.

In this case, do nothing about my criticism. If something in your narrative is strange, but is explained later, it becomes a clue to a mystery. Don't delete.

You did not convey the impression that they haven't seen each other in a long time.

I could try. We are leaving the world of facts, though, and heading into opinion, so feel free to disregard this.

A science lover is technical. They look at specific things. An art lover is non-technical. They look at specific other things.

There is absolutely no technical person I have met who did not come across as choosing their words carefully.

A technical person will look at a fight differently. They will note the movements and gestures used. A non-technical person will feel the fight and respond on instinct.

A technical person will review specific passages of a speech while walking. A non-technical person will review the body language and delivery of the speech.

A technical person will notice the architecture. A non-technical person will notice the people.

A technical person will measure the pros and cons of a decision by assigning a weight to each, then adding them together. A non-technical person will feel the answer.

A technical person will think of how everything they see can be used. A non-technical person will think of how everything they see looks and feels.

No, to be socially unaware is to not have a strong handle on how to behave in a social situation AND to not know what other people are thinking and feeling.

It went against my expectations of royalty.

What I saw was she communicated that she had managed to overdress, and smiling is a weird thing to do while bowing.

Yes.

I felt she noticed the wrong things about the way the messenger behaved.

The interrogation was the same way. She didn't look at the expressions on the guard's faces, and she shouted impossible.

I could give more specific details, but I would have to reread the passages. Remind me to do so later.

And probably most surprisingly, her lack of foresight that everyone probably already thinks that her and Jin are an item. <— But I think this might have been a misread of the situation on my part. If they were away from each other for a long time, it is more likely that her ideas are strange, and less likely that others think this.

Considering that you have nonstandard gender identities and language in play.

edited 12th Jun '16 7:01:02 AM by war877

It may just be that I have that weird Aspie mechanical thinking thing going on, since the impression I get from the aggregate of other writers' critique responses is that they just don't do what I do at all. When I write (solo), I have to- a bit more consciously than most -break down the exact purpose of every line of every scene so that I know what exactly needs to come next, what 'mini-mysteries' are developing, at what point they are in their development, and where they're being 'solved'. And because I'm insecure, when someone criticizes a particular line in my stuff, I write out a full breakdown of my thought process of what that line does and where it leads to so we can check and make sure there isn't something wrong in the system. This is a really methodical and probably newbie-esque approach to writing that I know for a fact doesn't fit the way most other people write, but it keeps me on track. Sometimes, however, it is worth it to stop and just think about what you're trying to do, exactly, if there's a line or scene that's giving you trouble.

And after sleeping on it, I think the lack of clarity on what you're trying to do with the text may just be a problem confined to, again, before the duel with Jin is ended. There's so much exposition (description of stuff that isn't actually happening right now) that should probably be cut down, or replaced with something that engages better. I get the sense that you're trying to use this opener to get some characterization across, but there's not enough of it. The tip I mentioned on the doc of making sure there's always something the reader wants to know the answer to should help here.

Maybe cutting down on the exposition will help a bit. She drifts between the two, and we may just need more data. She's already in a situation where she can't really be herself.

She reads very differently in Dream from her portrayal here. The CDTs just aren't that effective for some types of characters, particularly very intricate ones that you haven't practiced writing solo and gotten a basic handle on (hi, Vince and Tsadro), due to the time crunch everything kind of takes place under, among other factors that I didn't understand until I started getting into solo writing.

War:

How much later would you suggest doing so?

I know. That's why I floated the idea that making a note of it, where there is currently none, would help her behavior make more sense.

I'm a university student, and a humanities major, but I'm friends with and interact with a lot of science majors. We're all around Seilaan's age. Your descriptions are not consistent with how my friends and acquaintances behave unless they're specifically talking about science or doing science-related things.

Why were they wrong?

Is there anything else she should have observed during the interrogation? I was actually thinking about shifting the focus even more to Angelus when I rewrite because he's the main cause of her PTSD and also the main plot thing in that scene.

I think I get what you're saying about your writing process, but it describes my editing process a lot better than my writing process. I'm also on the autistic spectrum, so...

Also curious about the differences between her in Dream and here.

edited 12th Jun '16 12:38:36 PM by SnowyFoxes

I would see if I could fit in a mention of her official title or that her role is inherited in the second half of the chapter.

I think it would make sense for her to be thinking about how long it was since she saw her friends. It is not particularly normal to see someone from long ago and not have it affect your thoughts noticeably.

Great. On reflection, I have to walk back my statements a fair ways. It depends on the type of scientist. My descriptions, which were how I detect technical aptitude in prose, won't apply to medical professionals. Who usually do not display technical aptitude this way. They are only likely to apply to those in technology, engineering, or math.

As to why your friends do not display these characteristics, the stuff I listed is for story narration. I wasn't thinking about other modes of communication, so it might not work for other modes of communication.

Argh, dissecting a person's various personality traits based on the limited evidence provided by the text is hard. I am going to change my statement about the messenger in the hallway scene. It was not what she noticed.

It was everything she didn't. She didn't notice the hall. She didn't have any internal thoughts at all while saying "Please continue." and "Who do you think this person is?" She might have had internal thoughts here, but without them, my inference replaces evidence. She also didn't pay any attention to her guards, or what the soldier was wearing. She didn't notice the soldier after giving the command. She does not spend any time analysing her own thoughts here, either.

It is all mixed together. Some of that makes me think socially unaware and some of that makes me think non-technical.

And for the interrogation scene. I am not suggesting you draw focus off the prisoner. In fact, I think giving the prisoner more time is a great idea. I think the whole scene will need to be lengthened with sufficient description.

She did not notice the inside of the cell. Was it small, dark, sterile, barren? Was there a table? Were the soldiers present smiling, frowning? Were their backs to her? Was there papers on the table? Was Xue leaning over it, or standing a ways back? Was Xue in control of the interrogation? Were the other guards there to intimidate the prisoner or because he is that good of a mage he could escape at any moment?

How does Xue say "That's enough?" Does she turn around to address Ren? Is there compassion, or seriousness on her face? Why does Ren look to the doorway?

(time skip)

Again, not noticing details about Xue as she points the pistol. Minimal details of Angelus' face or voice. Few during the following exchange.

The missing details imply that the character did not notice them. Why? Either they lack social awareness in the case of details about how people are feeling or acting, or technical awareness in capturing a space they enter or the details of how a person is acting.

Also on the autistic spectrum.

Oh, I see now. I have issues with sufficient description across the board, so I don't think it's characteriztion problem, just one of my more general flaws. I have a tendency to be in the middle of a scene and realize that my characters are basically hanging out in totally featureless rooms.

edited 12th Jun '16 10:11:02 PM by SnowyFoxes

I tend to edit at the same time as when I write. Jesus, I feel like everyone and their mother's somewhere on the spectrum around here.

But in Dream, she seems/seemed overly preoccupied with saying the 'perfect' things when she was conversing with Vince and during the (maybe two?) post cycles she's had with Min. But I think what's happening over there is that she's been placed in a dramatically different social situation than anything she's a part of in this chapter.

Dream has had her conversing with people for whom her political status doesn't mean anything to them, and she's not totally sure what to do or what she should say to these people. When she converses in her home setting, the station of the people she's talking to in relation to her own is probably never far from her mind, or from the minds of others. But over in CDT-land, status ceases to be a thing. The way that she acts around adults who probably don't care about who she is in the CDTs kind of reminds me of how a politician might learn how to act at a fancy politicians' party, which is to say that she kind of drifted back into politician-mode as if to be safe rather than sorry. So she ends up coming across to Vince in particular (who has a pretty low opinion of high-level politics) as though her parents let her be consumed by politics and being a politician.

In that respect, she almost reminds me of Tsadro, on a basic level. It's possible that she's just one of those people who doesn't really be herself unless she's alone with people she's very close to. It's why Tsadro's never coming back to the CDTs (if I decide he should ever come back) without someone like his husband, or a friend.

With how she acts around Min, it's too early to say, but that's best saved until the end of the thread. With that, I'm going to stop talking about the CDTs over here. We can continue in PMs, if you want.

edited 12th Jun '16 3:25:41 PM by CrystalGlacia

Well, if the evidence fits the hypothesis, no reason to go against it.

But keep in mind, establishing a character is something done over the entire length of the book. When the character is focused on early on, most of that time will be establishing the character. When the character is focused on later on, most of that time will be spend developing that character. But it is definitely not something that you need to do in a single chapter.

edited 12th Jun '16 3:39:48 PM by war877

All right guys, I think I finally have a full understanding of what you've told me and have a clear idea of how to edit. I hope you didn't take all these questions as me being resistant to criticism and trying to dodge it. I wanted to be sure that I got it. Thank you so much for reading and all the feedback.

Alright, then!

Up next is Legonut 031. (S)He's writing a fantasy story and looking for "plots that work" according to the feedback list.

I've already P Med him/her. If (S)He doesn't respond, then I'm up next.

edited 13th Jun '16 1:23:53 PM by Sugarp1e1

Not kosure. A turn is supposed to last a week, max two. (I thought the rules had been changed to reflect this.)

It has been six days. I don't think a turn should be allowed to end early without explicit consent from the turn holder.

Hey, got the PM. I'm forfeiting my turn for Sugarp1e 1 first, I still haven't finished converting my writing to a digital format. Thank you though, for P Ming. I'm a male, though. Don't refer to me by 'she', alright?

Lets give Snowyfoxes one last opportunity to ask questions or make comments, and then move on.

I got nothing. Go ahead.

EDIT: WOAH HEY somebody's on the Google Doc now and I didn't realize it so I guess I'll use up my last day talking to them.

edited 13th Jun '16 7:24:31 PM by SnowyFoxes

I think he ended his turn with his last post. (That was the impression I got, anyway.)

I was planning to let it expire on its own, but I did want to thank the people who'd given me feedback so far and patiently endured my follow-up questions. Looking back, it definitely reads like I was ending it early, sorry.

@Legonut 031 Well, I didn't know so I just put a parenthesis around the "s". I'm not very fond of using "they" to refer to one person.

@Snowy Foxes So you're going to let your turn expire?

edited 14th Jun '16 6:41:30 AM by Sugarp1e1

I said I was closing it last night, but immediately after I sent that post, I got an automated email from Google Docs showing that someone was leaving comments on my document. But since my turn is so close to expiring anyway maybe I should just keep it closed and talk to that person via PM instead, assuming that they do have anything to say to me.