Something has to give: Yaoi Guys

Does it matter? If it's primarily used in anime, it will have abundant anime examples. There's no sense in crippling the other sections by saying it's in anime/manga in the description.

This

Do those western examples use the Seme / Uke dynamic?

Who cares if they use that dynamic? Keep that dynamic to the Seme/Uke pages. The core of the trope is 'gay guys for fanservice.'

What about Guy on Guy Is Hot? There seems to be quite a lot of overlap. Making that one in-universe only seems like a solution, but I guess that would have to be decided in a separate thread.

I think that's the supertrope, but I'm not sure.

Guy on Guy Is Hot appears to be in-universe only right now. At least the examples are, and if that's how the article should be, the intro needs some work.

Guy on Guy Is Hot probably needs some help. I think people mainly prefer to use Yaoi Fangirl instead.

Perhaps, but they can get over it. Guy on Guy Is Hot has the benefit of a) being easy to understand and b) not depending on being a fan of a particular medium to find it so.

Yes, I know. I'm not even sure if I knew whether Guy on Guy Is Hot existed. I suspect a lot of tropers don't use it for similar reasons, and thus it needs some help it getting wicks as appropriate. That's a thread we should probably open when this issue has been settled and the TRS is opened again.

I would like to mention that Guy on Guy Is Hot should probably be restricted to those who aren't outright Yaoi Fangirls, which sounds like a subtrope.

edited 6th Oct '11 4:58:49 PM by Arha

I thought Guy on Guy Is Hot was a redirect to Girl on Girl Is Hot, actually. Not sure why they aren't the same page, really - the basic concept is the same, and to the best of my knowledge the fact that the latter is used far more often in Western works really comes from other things more then it does any inherent difference between the tropes themselves.

This is getting somewhat off topic, though. Perhaps another Special Efforts thread is needed for these tropes as a whole, but as for this trope, is anything still wrong with it, or can we lock this up?

I just swapped the descriptions, so that's done.

Before we lock it up we should probably get one thing in the clear: do we want Yaoi Guys to stay a disambiguation page with the examples only in the subtropes, or do we allow examples on the page? If it's the latter, there really probably should be some kind of rename. The misuse suggests that the current title is misleading.

(Also, if anyone wants to help with fixing wicks, that would be fabulous ).

No one has done any wick checks, though.

I don't really see how this has subtropes. There aren't other tropes for gay men as fanservice. There are tropes for people finding it hot in universe, but those aren't the same thing at all.

This has no subtropes, and I don't see how the name is contributing to any misuse - not that it's a good name, but the incoherent description was probably far more to blame: with no clear definition as to what the trope was, it's hard to say what was misuse. I say we do anything else that needs to be done immediately, lock the thread, and if this is still having problems in six months, give some thought to the rename.

A run-through to eliminate wicks that don't have to do with the current definition sounds good, though.

Is there a reason to keep the old title as anything other than a redirect?

May or may not be good enough, but those seem like good inbounds to me.

Edit: I would have no strong objections to making a rename crowner and letting "the people" decide, though.

edited 6th Oct '11 9:37:08 PM by nrjxll

The problem with putting up a rename crowner is that drive by voters think "This title is broken, is it good enough to keep anyway?", which influences the votes. I'm not going to raise a stink over it, but I really think we just ought to lock this up, then start a special efforts thread for the related tropes, and fix wicks once we get them all untangled.

A shitty, too-narrow, medium specific, unintelligible, opaque, confusing name with a lot of wicks is still a shitty, too-narrow, medium specific, unintelligible, opaque, confusing name, and still needs to be changed on the basis of being a shitty, too-narrow, medium specific, unintelligible, opaque, confusing name.

I think that the description was the issue, so why not keep the new description (if one is there now), wait a bit and then check back?

^^Agreed. We need to sort out how the tropes are all related and then decide if they need new names.

edited 7th Oct '11 7:08:54 PM by RocketDude

I've been looking at a lot of the pages this trope is linked to, and in a lot of cases the phrase is being used to indicate the appearance of any gay men at all, regardless of whether they are being used as fanservice.

The day before this thread was created, I had made a similar posting about the Yaoi Guys page in Trope Talk because that page is a serious mess. Of the few yaoi/BL stuff I've ever seen or read,it made sense. However, there were tons of examples from other games and series I'm familiar with that definitely didn't apply. Seems it had a lot of "wishful thinking" to me as two males being best friends were being listed as "yaoi guys" where it really should be something like "Bromance". Almost 2 months later and that page is still a mess.

So, what is that status on this?

Looks like someone cleaned out the bad BL examples, but there's probably a lot of wicks that need cleaning up still.