Needs a re-name: Yangire

We're trying to split off something that isn't in the examples or the definition and I'm not sure what it is or why. I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just mentioning that all the initial calls for a split were people trying to split off something that they could call Yangire if you read the thread. That's as per the reasons people stated for wanting a split initially.

edited 6th Sep '11 12:13:51 PM by shimaspawn

I'm agreeing with Shimaspawn here. I don't think the faked personality part of this trope is distinct from The Fake Cutie or Stepford Smiler.

The Fake Cutie is basically brand-new, so it doesn't have any...what's the word? Implications? Anyway, maybe that's right, and Psycho All Along could be The Fake Cutie pretty easily. I really think Stepford Smiler has a much different feel to it, though.

So if the agreement is to merge the examples that would fit into Psycho All Along into The Fake Cutie, then we just need to get the name for the genuine cute/crazy trope (I'm liking the Saccharine Psycho suggestion), and then start a Special Efforts thread to sort everything. Do we need more crowners?

The Fake Cutie is not brand new. It just got a rename to something clearer. The trope has been around for years.

I meant it's not well-used throughout the wiki. I know we didn't just identify it a month ago or whenever the rename happened.

Regardless, do we need a crowner to ask "Is Psycho All Along covered by The Fake Cutie?" Or is that settled, and we need to restart the name crowner for Cute and Psycho with a clearer header (again, that was my fault)?

That's because it was being misused and we're still cleaning up and moving bad wiks.

I think it's settled that it covers Psycho All Along. The crowner does need a fresh reboot with a clearer definition. This one was launched before we had time to clarify what we were looking for.

edited 6th Sep '11 12:33:27 PM by shimaspawn

A new crowner might be a good idea. I really don't think this is distinct from The Fake Cutie other than the fact it might be a hair narrower.

edited 6th Sep '11 12:36:27 PM by Arha

I know that. And I'm asking if the "Psycho All Along" Yangire examples fit there, or do we need an entirely new trope. It has already been determined that Psycho All Along is different from Cute And Crazy. I'm just trying to figure out whether we need new tropes or not.

Ninja'ed

edited 6th Sep '11 12:35:04 PM by Discar

Were they not paying attention to the part where it was determined that Yangire shouldn't be retained as anything but a redirect?

I think you're right, by the way. I also think its why someone fruitlessly added Yangire to the Crowner: in an attempt to retain the word as the actual Trope title.

I'm actually pretty sure thats just considered proper trope-manners(I'm not sure but it might be in the rename rules). Wasn't me though I just added the Psycho instead of Crazy ones.

edited 6th Sep '11 1:34:05 PM by Vyctorian

Yangire was added by Shark33.

Also fake cutie seems similar but that feels more just Psychopathic Man Child but female and less Psycho All Along.

As for the The Fake Cutie being around for years this is my first time ever hearing of it, and it's history only goes back to last month.

edited 6th Sep '11 1:55:55 PM by Vyctorian

It was called The Cutie before.

So it was split. Ahh that makes more sense.

edited 6th Sep '11 1:59:14 PM by Vyctorian

No, it was not a split. It's the same trope and the same definition with a new name. What's currently at The Cutie is a brand new trope.

I just checked the TRS on it, they even say it's a split, also the new cutie page doesn't seem all that different from the old cutie page just more focused.

Considering that the old cutie page was copied and pasted into The Fake Cutie and the new cutie page was written from scratch, I'd say that's your mind playing tricks on you. Most people seemed to think that what's on The Cutie was the page but they were incorrect.

But that's off topic. We're focusing on if and how we should split this.

edited 6th Sep '11 3:40:31 PM by shimaspawn

The Fake Cutie does have an offhand mention that the cute facade can hide insane jealousy and then potholes Yandere, so...I dunno, I say add a line about a Cute Facade Hiding Crazy type to The Fake Cutie and be done with that part.

The rest of the Genuinely Both Cute And Crazy trope I say don't split, I guess.

Oh so many things to say.

1. I added Yangire to the crowner becuase we never made a crowner to decide if we shouldn't use it at all, plus it is a pre-existing term and all of that that I've repeated like four times in this thread already, and since there was no proven misuse and no possible way to confirm the supposed underuse, it should be considered to be the name of the trope. If it loses in the crowner, then it loses and we use the winning option.
2. The main difference between Psycho All Along and Crazy And Psycho is if the cute part is just a facade or if it's a part of the character's true personality(with the other part being the psycho). The "switching" was just brought up to accentuate the fact that the second type could be either cute or psycho at anytime and not just when it's more convinient to them. The genuinely cute and psycho type shouldn't be split further, though.
3. The crowner already decided that there were two tropes, now we only need to decide if Psycho All Along is covered by any other trope.
4. We still need to figure out what to do with Yangire, the large number of inbounds is a problem since we can't be sure what type was being linked to, so making it a redirect of either one would make some inbounds incorrect, so I think we should give it the Pettanko treatment and make it an example-less fanspeak term/disambiguation page.
5. I would support another crowner, maybe this time we can add Cute and Psycho, which I don't understand how we missed it, since it's what everyone have been using to refer to this type.

^ On point 5, you can still add it to the current crowner.

@419 I just want to say that I agree on points 2-5, especially the part about an example-less fanspeak/disambiguation page.

<hands Shark a medal rather than cookies> Thanks for that.

@ Shark, actually, Yangire has been ruled out as being the trope name by word of Admin. It's got nothing to do with misuse, but underuse and obscurity. It's a word from one specific anime fandom and we are not going to be using it. We are not allowed to use it as anything other than a redirect.

Also, what you're calling Psycho All Along is all ready a trope. It's called The Fake Cutie. It has nothing to do with the content of this page or the examples on this page.

edited 6th Sep '11 6:34:46 PM by shimaspawn

Which means even if a hundred thousand people voted yea for Yangire, its not getting used. All adding it to the crowner did was split votes that would have gone to one of the trope titles we can use.

edited 6th Sep '11 7:28:53 PM by Worldmaker

Not really. It's not one-troper-one-vote. You can vote up or down on every single option.