needs a rewrite: Buxom Is Better

Alright, second attempt.

Ok, so this trope gets misused frequently on the wicks. Tropers are simply using this trope to point out or gush about a character with large breasts, neither of which are any sort of trope.

I don't think page is helping things. It's not really explain what this trope is, it's all over the place, and I don't really understand how exactly this trope so frequent and pervasive that we don't allow straight examples on the page, whatever straight example for this trope are because I can't parse what they would be from the trope description.

edited 17th Aug '11 6:01:16 PM by captainpat

I think the description is pretty clear. A girl clearly and obviously benefits from having either (1)unusually large breasts, or (2)larger breasts than other girls.

I agree, though, that with this strict definition, there doesn't seem to be any particular reason not to list straight examples on the trope page.

"Clearly and obviously," I can get behind. Actually, I thought that's what we were supposed to do. Some people are suggesting that this trope requires actual verbal recognition, which I think is a silly restriction.

Yea, that's kinda what I thought the trope was. It's not really a concept should result in the description being as obtuse, or perhaps meandering is the right word, as it is and not allowing straight examples.

How is this trope separated into realistic big breasts and absurdly big breasts?

edited 17th Aug '11 7:12:30 PM by captainpat

If I were to guess, I'd say the separation is probably just meant to underscore the fact that it doesn't matter if the breasts are or aren't realistic in size; the trope applies to both kinds.

I say nuke that part. It's a large part of the problem; it implies that this is just about characters with large breasts, and that the trope is about both realistic and absurd sizes. That's not what this is at all.

Ok, another issue is one of the requirements

Ok so A girl clearly and obviously benefits from having either (1)unusually large breasts, or (2)larger breasts than other girls..

Wouldn't that mean that both "Bigger Breasts = Hotter girl (benefiting from having larger breasts than the rest of the females) and "Big Breasts = Hot Girl" (benefiting from having large breasts) are both part of the trope? I'm not seeing how a female character being attractive within the show because of her large breasts is just Author Appeal or Fetish Fuel.

edited 17th Aug '11 9:49:09 PM by captainpat

Problem.

'Big breasts = Hot girl' doesn't communicate the betterness of buxomness as explicitly on the work level as how the trope is defined now (requiring verbal recognition or other explicit underlining of the trope) — big breasts being the key ingredient to hot girls is most often, I dare claim, Author Appeal or Fanservice, and that communicates the trope on the IRL level. But TV Tropes doesn't want IRL level trope examples here.

IRL level trope examples would look like this:

• A, B and C are artists who always draw big-racked women because they like big racks, being "boob persons".
• D, E and F are sequential art where nearly all adequately aged females have big racks, because the publisher enforces "wider attraction scope", which is to say, they want to make sure teenage boys buy the stuff even if the stories aren't so great in each issue
• G, H and I are musicians whose racks have appeared first on some magazine's Top Hundres Best Boobs list
• J, K and L are video game characters I find hot, they have such great racks
• also, This Troper is a rack-developed female, and has such an easy time hitchhiking compared to her less endowed friends.

The problem basically is how to keep the trope defined as correctly a possible, while keeping the IRL level out of the page.

edited 18th Aug '11 12:54:05 AM by peccantis

What, that just sound like a bunch of speculation, and assumptions. This trope should deal to cases where a character is attractive to other characters within the story because of her large breasts. It has nothing with assumptions or speculations about why the creator decided to give said character large breasts.

When someone draws a character with Big breasts and has them wearing something revealing its always for Fanservice it is Buxom Is Better because Breasts sell. (Sometimes with a side big breasts played for comedy aka Gag Boobs.)

Ok and we have tropes like Male Gaze and Stripperiffic for that. This is strictly about breast size, not what there wearing.

edited 18th Aug '11 5:17:03 AM by captainpat

Those are far far too broad and don't even have to be used (especially the latter.) We need a Super-Trope to really cover it so that this trope can actually have a chance to be used correctly (the way it's written)

The misuse isn't going to stop hell Most Common Superpower is still getting used for the way it was before the Nazi medium specific redefine. (and we were suppose to stop medium specific tropes....)

edited 18th Aug '11 7:16:21 AM by Raso

Well most of the misusage for Most Common Superpower has been cut and it isn't medium specific, it's limited to works in the western superhero genre. A genre is not a medium. Works like Tiger And Bunny and the Witchblade anime where are also using that trope. I think that's been repeat on a couple of TRS threads for that trope

As the misusage is concerned, that will stop when tropers read the trope descriptions and use the trope properly. Not having a trope is not a good excuse to misuse another trope. If there's a trope we are missing then it should be proposed in the YKTTW.

I removed the part about "realistic" and "absurd" proportions.

Also, we need to revive that "Proposal to reformat buxom tropes" thread. There was some talk about making a Buxom Babe trope, which would siphon off a lot of misuse. Of course, there was argument if that's actually a trope, but that's something for the other thread.

The problem seems to be that tropers are actively trying to find a trope for women with big breasts, putting every character that fills their fetishes in said nonexistent page.

Unfortunately, this is a process that is doomed to repeat itself, no matter what limitations we enforce, until we get fed up with it and nuke all these tropes.

edited 18th Aug '11 8:32:21 AM by Torquey

You're being overly cynical/pessimistic, IMO. Just because a portion of the troper community does not believe that breasts (let alone big breasts) can have their own tropes doesn't mean that they're right.

This. Hopefully I can set aside sometime today and tomorrow to go about leafing through that thread and summarize the arguments of each side, per Madrugada's request in the same thread.

It shouldn't be genre specific it's used in Panty Fighter s too.... Which is a point no one will listen too but oh well with more bounciness and clothing damage..... Anyway that one is still getting misused for non-genre specific seen more than a few forum potholes and a few wicks referring to not superheroes but Panty Fighter s.

Oh Tiger And Bunny is NOT an example one is a Pettanko and Blue Rose uses padding (as well as not even making a C cup with the padding) so the genre doesn't all use them

Little too off topic I am just saying that we really need to redefine this a bit to match the misuse or make supertrope for girls who have big breasts and show it off via various tropes, index the various big breast tropes like what Buxom Is Better is doing right now. and index the various ways that she can show them off... Although most are not specific.

Then fix up the trope.

edited 18th Aug '11 8:48:25 AM by Raso

That's pretty much the extent of the misusage, "This Character Has Big Boobs" or Most Common Super Power or Buxom Is Better with One Word Example. People are pretty much using it as a descriptor to point out a character has big breasts, which again, Not A Trope. It would be like if I used Tomboyish Ponytail to point out every female with a ponytail regardless of whether they were a Tomboy or The Lad-ette.

Now I don't think we need to nuked our breast tropes, most of them get used correctly, even ones involved large breasts like Big Breasts Big Deal and Gag Boobs have a good amount of correct usage, but Buxom Is Better, and Boobs Of Steel do not.

Superheroes who pad are also part of that trope. They're subversions of the trope.

edited 18th Aug '11 8:56:50 AM by captainpat

Gag Boobs has it's own misuse problem it's treated as characters with absurd large boobs when it's only Boobs Played for Comedy. Breast jokes, snark from the A Cup Agnst etc

My original idea was a Drawn Busty trope specifically for well drawn works because it's a design choice to make them like that and for only one reason fan service. (The misuse is all from animated works from what I have seen) and give that character an extra edge or fit into Most Common Superpower in a Panty Fighter etc.

edited 18th Aug '11 9:20:55 AM by Raso

Every trope has a misusage problem but, from my perspective, Gag Boobs doesn't have it as bad as other tropes.

As far as Drawn Busty is concerned, if you think it's legit then why not propose it in the YKTTW? There's not much we can do for the misusage of Buxom Is Better, since it's not being used in a way that's tropable.

edited 18th Aug '11 9:48:30 AM by captainpat

Well we were kicking it around in the other thread and there was debate on what we would do to it till it died.

One big thing to help out Buxom Is Better is define Gag Boobs better as literal Boobs (any size really) Played for Comedy some of the misuse I have seen could fit there as any boob joke really puts them there most are usually the targets of the Pettanko with A Cup Agnst or other comedy.

Or the old Most Common Super Power in a Fanservice Panty Fighter series which seems to be getting shoved into Boobs Of Steel which is might be misuse there too. (Then there is the common thing where mages who get the huge ones like Lulu from Final Fantasy X and Morrgen from Dragon Age Jessica from Dragon Quest VIII.)

edited 18th Aug '11 10:06:57 AM by Raso

Sure, I don't see why Gag Boobs can't be defined breasts any size played for humor. I'm gonna make a TRS thread about it.

Making its main name Boob Gags might help. Not to mention we might get an oh-so-punny page image of someone gagged by boobs.

Okay, I made a single prop crowner here for whether or not to split off Buxom Babe. I really think it would solve a lot of problems. Maybe we can make it like Pettanko, an exampleless fanspeak term.

Also, there was talk of adding one of these threads to the wiki headline. Is that necessary, or overkill?

Pettanko is Not A Trope. It's an example free fanspeak term that people can't resist cluttering up the wiki with. Buxom Babe isn't even a fanspeak term and thus doesn't even have that going for it.

We're having a hard enough time clearing wiks for Pettanko off pages without another page being abused in the same fashion. We're trying to kill the links to Pettanko that use it as a trope. How is making another page to be abused in the same way helpful at all?

edited 18th Aug '11 11:28:14 AM by shimaspawn