Removing Gushing from the Wiki

There was an example from a few months back that was mega gushy, but now I see it and its still there. I like the gushy version better but still.

Is the description The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky a bit too gushy?

Yeah the parts detailing the game's reception can be cut.

Also, it does a thing that I think we're not really supposed to do with the pic and thats having a caption that isnt straightforward or clear. It could list the characters names in the pic, give a brief bit of info about who they are as characters, but instead its got a Blatant Lies bit that seems unnecessary.

We dont need to be sarcastic in our captions, they should actually provide information to people who might not be familiar with the work.

So instead of "wow they sure get up to normal, basic things—Not!", we could just explain what they actually do.

The page for Ace Attorney: Truth and Consequences is likely written by one of its authors, and this entry raises some flags, starting with "arguable":

• Flanderization: Arguably reversed. Phoenix's characterization more closely resembles his personality in the trilogy than in the later games. This is clearly intentional, as it's lampshaded by Athena expressing surprise at his behavior at the end of the game. Larry is also toned down a lot more, resembling his characterization in the first game more than later ones. And Trucy doesn't utter the words "magic panties" once in either of the released cases. The Twin Turnabout hints to the Phantom in Dual Destinies being a flanderization of the real Phantom in this game's canonical universe.

I don't know any Phoenix Wright so I can't help much but I'd like others to weigh in.

Isn't that more like Character Development? And maybe Character Rerailment but that's only to be added if this wasn't added by the author.

I would've say it's development since it doesn't seem to be an intentional change over time, just... personalities changing.

PeripheryDemographic.Western Animation has a couple entries that lean into "look at how mature this kids' show is!".

Near the top of the page, there's this:

• The DC Animated Universe has the most intelligent, mature writing in Western Animation. So it's no surprise Batman: The Animated Series, Superman: The Animated Series, Batman Beyond, Static Shock, and Justice League have huge teen and adult fanbases. Including the comic book geeks who watch these out of sheer obligation.

It's not too bad, but I'd rephrase it a bit:

• The DC Animated Universe is considered to have some of the most intelligent, mature writing in Western Animation. So it's no surprise Batman: The Animated Series, Superman: The Animated Series, Batman Beyond, Static Shock, and Justice League have huge teen and adult fanbases. Including the comic book geeks who watch these out of sheer obligation.

It's much better than this mess, however:

• Pinky and the Brain is an inversion, especially when they got their own spinoff on Sunday evenings. And yes, Pinky's idiocy, catchphrases, and the show's occasional physical violence (against Pinky, usually) was there to keep the kids entertained. But practically everything the Brain said (as well as the fact that the voice actor is doing Orson Welles), AND the pop culture references, AND the often VERY scathing political and social commentary of the show, AND even the occasional Take That! at the younger viewers, all possibly leads one to believe that the show was really a program for parents that kids would watch and not get 90% of what was going on (making the kids the Periphery Demographic). And even in Pinky's case, the "Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering?" exchanges eventually got extremely out of a child's comprehension. One wonders if the failed Pinky, Elmyra & the Brain spin-off was green-lit because some executive wanted to increase the kid viewership to a very smart, adult program by severely curtailing the adult appeal in favor of getting more young children watching the program.

Aside from being extremely overlong and having some weird speculation at the end, I find it very hard to believe that Pinky and the Brain was not aimed towards children. Pretty much every well-known cartoon of the 90s included Parental Bonus. (YMMV can't be played with, of course, but this one isn't an "inversion" in the first place.)

Honestly I got the impression PATB was aimed at all ages (didn't it have a primetime time slot?) and was probably aiming for adults deliberately to some degree (same with its parent series), but for all intents and purposes it's a family show.

Not to mention that children liking a work that's aimed at an older audience is included under the definition of Periphery Demographic, just as much as teen/adult fans of works aimed at children — Laconic.Periphery Demographic states that it includes any instance of fans from outside of the intended target audience.

On Been There, Shaped History:

• In a Swedish film The Hundred Year Old Man Who Climbed Out The Window And Disappeared - which is by the way much better than the "arthouse-ish" name might imply - through a series of flashback scenes we gradually learn that the main character prevented an assassination of Franco, personally suggested the explosive obturation principle for a Manhattan project, and many other things.

I feel the part between dashes should be cut.

Yeah, it adds nothing of value.

It’s listed as an inversion and YMMV can’t be played with anyway.

Edited by costanton11 on Apr 2nd 2024 at 10:33:54 AM

Munecat:

• She Panned Him, Now She Sucks: Münecat got a fair bit of flack when she criticized MrBeast in this Tweet thread and in this video titled Why Mr. Beast's "Philanthropy" Enrages Me. Her argument was that Mr. Beast only engaged in charitable acts to further his brand while obfuscating the systemic issues that cause the problems he claims to be solving. She feels that regardless of his intentions, it puts forward the message that the solution to the problems that Capitalism creates is more Capitalism and that it's better to hope that some billionaires will use their money to help people than to try and build a better system.

The backlash is only brought up in the first sentence and the entry is most dedicated to summarizing her critiques of Mr. Beast. It feels like the entry is trying to defend her position or promote her viewpoint.

Agree that those parts could go. Feels like the entry is legit, but could use more actual context.

I went ahead and trimmed the entry down so it now looks like this:

• She Panned Him, Now She Sucks: Münecat got a fair bit of flack when she criticized MrBeast in this Tweet thread and in this video titled Why Mr. Beast's "Philanthropy" Enrages Me.

What context should be added to this entry?

It would help if there was more detail on the criticism she got.

I'm completely unfamiliar with the controversy, so I can't add anything.

Same here. I was just going through He Panned It, Now He Sucks! and this stuck out to me.

Hey, I'm the one who put the He Panned It, Now He Sucks! entry on the YMMV/Munecat page. I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't trying to promote or defend her viewpoint, I was merely trying to provide context to the entry. I'm sorry if I didn't do a sufficient enough job at it.

The problem is that most of the context is tangential to the entry. It should focus on whatever backlash she got, not the criticism. As it is, it's a near-ZCE in the relevant portion.

Not gushing but rather this feels like an ad for Blender, from Dancing Bear:

• Next Gen has a decidedly mixed critical reception, but it's still praised, at least among independent animators that have seen it, as a glowing example of the quality of animation that Blender is capable of. It's a free and open source all-in-one 3D animation program that can handle essentially every aspect of animated film production, from sculpting, modeling, painting, animation, physics, and even video editing, and it's only gotten more feature-rich over the years.

It also doesn't really seem that accurate, since Next Gen has an 86 critic score on RT (which is noticably higher than its audience score, but that's also positive).

So it's both gushing and not a proper example in the first place.

That could probably go on Visual Effects of Awesome instead.

I found that Xeelee Sequence page has lots of gushing (and hyperbolic comparatives)in the examples, especially about the bleakness of the work. Some examples suffer from ZCE too.

Few examples, I highlighted them with bold text.

• Big Brother Is Watching: The Coalition definitely have one of the most horrific forms of surveillance apparatus ever written into fiction. That is, the ability to use tactical and strategic foreknowledge to correctly predict a crime before it even happens. Your actions will be watched and monitored, and you will be harshly punished for a crime you have yet to commit. Just ask Pirius Red who learned it the hard way.
• The Dictatorship: The Interim Coalition of Governance is a deranged, unhinged, time-traveling, totalitarian oligarchical dictatorship of unparalleled cruelty in all of fiction, and its structure is very similar to that of Oceania. The Coalition's structure is broken down as can be seen here:
• Hand Cannon: An extremely absurd example. Hell, propably the most extreme example in all of fiction. But when your Big Bang rifles are treated like pellet guns, you know you're in for a doozy. But by far the most infamous example is the first ilteration of Star Breakers, which were essentially pistol-sized weapons that can blow up a star.
• Higher-Tech Species: The Xeelee are an extreme example. Despite being "only" this trope (because their universe-shattering technology is recognizable as such), they could absolutely run rings around quite a few examples of Sufficiently Advanced Aliens from other works.
• Sci-Fi orror: The Sequence is one of the darkest science-fiction stories ever told, this is to be expected.

Edited by namsan on Apr 22nd 2024 at 5:33:01 PM

Those can be cleaned up (and as you mentioned, the last example is ZCE as well). I don't think the Hand Cannon entry is inappropriate on its own, though.

It's a Super-Trope. Blindness is used for many plot devices, sometimes for humor and sometimes for drama. It's definitely not chairs.