Rampant misuse as verbal tic.: Flat What

I've noticed that Flat "What" has been becoming used as a verbal tic and troper response And That's Terrible.

Anyway, in the interest of proving my point, Here's the results of a check of 50 random wicks (not counting cases of X Just X, but noting them) while staying in only the Main and media namespaces. All of the wicks in Fridge, Headscratchers, YMMV, and WMG can probably be safely assumed to be incorrect.

Misuse:

1. After The Academy: Sink Hole
2. Battlestar Galactica - Sink Hole, troper response, in natter
3. Confusion Fu - troper response
4. Beatles Cartoon - two counts of misuse as troper response/Verbal Tic
5. Flipped - Sink Hole
6. Gratuitous Panning - Verbal Tic
7. Heil Honey Im Home - In the trope list as an Audience Reaction, rather than anything a character says.
8. Hellfire - I'm pretty sure that the tone of "say what?" is usually more incredulous than flat, regardless, I think it's a gratuitous Pot Hole.
9. Iron Storm - Verbal Tic
10. Jak And Daxter - Verbal Tic
11. King Arthurs Disasters - Verbal Tic
12. Mardek - Verbal Tic
13. Mnemosyne - Verbal Tic
14. Persona - Verbal Tic
15. Ranger - Verbal Tic
16. Rhyming with Itself - Verbal Tic and natter
17. The Savage Dragon - Audience Reaction, also, natter
18. Seven Deadly Sins - Verbal Tic and natter
19. Shadow Man - Verbal Tic
20. Stealth Hi/Bye - "Whaaa?" Doesn't sound like a flat what to me, and I don't think the example it's attached to belongs on the page.
21. Subbing for Santa - Two cases of Sinkholing it to question marks in the same entry.
22. Tales Of Phantasia - Verbal Tic
23. Totally Radical - Sink Hole
24. True Art Is Offensive - Verbal Tic (in the fifth bullet point of natter no less)
25. Two Worlds - Sink Hole
26. Valkyrie - Sink Hole
27. Water Is Dry - Verbal Tic
28. Wolfenstein 3 D - Verbal Tic
29. The World Cup - Sink Hole
30. WTH, Casting Agency? - Verbal Tic

X Just X:

1. What The Fuck Is Wrong With You
2. Erfworld

Correct:

1. Star Kits Prophecy
2. Antihero F Or Hire
3. Gastro Phobia
4. Digimon Arcadia
5. The Fairly Oddparents
6. The Life After Death Trilogy
7. The Muppet Show
8. Nigahiga
9. Oxhorn Short Shorts
10. Psychic Static - Technically correct, though I don't think the quote it's attached to is necessary for the page.
11. Pokémon: Attack of Mewtwo
12. Over The Gun - I think.
13. Pushing Up Roses?action
14. Recettear
15. Red Vs Blue
16. South Park
17. Star Driver
18. Titus
19. Yukari Is Free
20. Zero Punctuation

This amounts to an astounding 60% misuse when omitting all cases of X Just X. Stats:
Flat "What" found in: 1305 articles, excluding discussions.

This title has brought 25,819 people to the wiki from non-search engine links since 20th FEB '09.

edited 15th Aug '11 12:18:45 PM by Balmung

Sounds like a good cleanup candidate to me... I'll start zapping it when I see it.

Finally, someone posts a wick check in the first post.

I've been trying to clean misuse when I see it, but I think this is a little more serious than just a cleanup can fix. Any other ideas?

Sounds like a case for Special Projects to me. It needs a concerted wiki-wide clean-up, not a hit-and-miss piecemeal job.

Would it be advisable to make a Just For Fun page for the purpose of potholing Flat What as used on the fora? The pothole tends to add an emphasis or effect that would otherwise be ambiguous without it. If not, that's cool, I dont have a problem with it, I'm just throwing it out there as a suggestion.

Well, if as stated, this seems like a job for special efforts, should this thread be moved to there?

Also, I don't really think simple clean-up will be enough for this one, either since the misuse is so widespread as to be more common than correct use and people are probably just going to keep on using it wrong.

@Discar: Of course I did a wick check. If I found everything was hunky-dory, I wouldn't have made the thread, though I didn't think there was going to be quite this much misuse when I started. Also,if anyone cares, all of those sinkholes were also troper responses/verbal tics.

edited 15th Aug '11 4:17:20 PM by Balmung

^^ No. We don't want to encourage troper tics at all, and that's what making a Just for Fun page would do.

we can move this thread, no problem, or you can make a new one with the same wick check information in the OP, but instead of asking "what should we do?" simply ask for help arranging a cleanup. and say that if people will post how far they got in the "related to" list, that the first post will be kept updated.

I'd suggest starting with a new OP, personally.

edited 15th Aug '11 5:00:08 PM by Madrugada

Sure, I'll make one with a new OP, but I'm not optimistic that the misuse and ticery won't come back in relatively short order.

New thread is here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13134561140A42379700&page=1 Unfortunately, I couldn't attach it to the Flat "What" page at this time. Also, sadly, I don't really have access to a computer with a mouse at this time, so editing is a little awkward.

Just one more question: What should I do if misuse reaches this level again? Go to Special Efforts or TRS?

edited 15th Aug '11 6:40:34 PM by Balmung

Do uses in troper pages come up on a wick check? If so, I have contributed a sinkhole of this...

Nope, troper pages no longer show up in wick checks, though you might want to fix any such sinkholes on your troper page anyways.

Just my two cents, but the Erfworld example isn't erroneous. It needs context, yes, but it's not an erroneous use of the Flat What trope: it's Parson's rather . . . baffled reaction to something mind-bogglingly twisted that Maggie, the Gobwin Knob Thinkamancer, did to Stanley the Tool.

ETA - Here's the incident in question: http://www.erfworld.com/2010/05/book-2-%E2%80%93-page-32/

edited 27th Aug '11 10:35:29 AM by RangerSix

Well, it's not really a sinkhole, since it is appropriately potholed to a phrase that is, in fact, a Flat "What"...

Anyhow, on to topic, what is suggested that we do to fix it?

edited 27th Aug '11 10:34:13 AM by USAF713

Delete it on sight if it's not a legitimate use of the trope by a character in the work.

edited 30th Aug '11 2:08:57 PM by Madrugada

@ Ranger Six: I didn't actually count X Just X entries either way when checking misuse. I noted that I bumped into them, and kept going until I had fifty wicks that were not simply cases of X Just X.

Do we need to do something else to prevent this from happening again? Once misuse is cleaned up, I don't think this is actually all that common a trope.

I think we may need to do something to prevent future misuse, but this time around we're just cleaning the misuse it seems.

I know someone else seems to have been helping nuke the misuse. Would that be you? Or am I underestimating how many wicks I've removed? I seem to be the only one posting in the Special Efforts thread.

If you are going to rename it, I suggest Flat What Reaction, like it was done with No. Just... No. Absolutely same meaning, less/no misuse.

Do we want to rename this or just settle for a cleanup?

What about cases where an actual Flat "What" is used in writing an example? Like:

Shocking Swerve - So it's the end of the movie, and Alice and Bob have finally reunited after leaving their abusive relationships. They lean in for a kiss ... and then Alice turns into a praying mantis and eats Bob's head.

...

What?

edited 10th Dec '11 7:12:27 PM by RavenWilder

It's not a Flat "What" if it has a question mark.

Really? That's news to me. I thought it was all in the tone of voice.

Yes, but the question mark makes it look more like a "Wait, what?"

@Raven: Kill It with Fire. That's misuse of the trope and annoying ticcery. It's not an example of the trope in a work, so it doesn't belong.

A question mark is intended to indicate an interrogative tone of voice. A flat what wouldn't have an interrogative tone.