Misapplied to Jesus-like characters, non-Christianity-like religions: Crystal Dragon Jesus

The trope describes itself as a fictional religion centered on a deity markedly different from the Abrahamic God, but uses several stereotypical trappings of Christianity in its iconography, symbology, etc. However, several times have I encountered the trope being pot-holed to describe either a fictional religion that has little to no attributes of Christianity, a Jesus-like figure instead of a religion, or a God-Emperor who is worshipped as an actual deity regardless of whether he or the religion centered on him possess any Christian-inspired attributes.

I'm not sure of the exact extent of the misuse *

, but considering that I myself had previously believed the aformentioned misconceptions were true before I actually read the article recently and got surprised at how different the trope was from what I originally thought, I'd say that the title is ill-chosen, and either a rename (possibly impractical, given the wick count) or a description rewrite is in order. Thoughts?

edited 19th Jun '11 11:09:37 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

You don't have to check all the wicks. Just grab a random thirty or so. It's still annoying, but easier. That being said, I believe you, so I don't think we need to bother.

I think this can do with a minor expansion. Yes, the literal trope is "Christianity with a different god on top," but that doesn't have to be limited to Gothic architecture and giant pipe organs. It's being used to refer to any case where the author is clearly drawing from Christianity for inspiration, which seems like a good definition. Tropes Are Flexible, after all. Though it would still need a rewrite to make it a little more broad than it is now.

There is an unofficial formula for checking misuse. Take the square root of the number of wicks or fifty, whichever's larger. Then check that many random wicks. F.E. Determined that 10% is enough to show that something is wrong.

Edit: Ninja'ed

edited 19th Jun '11 11:37:18 AM by pokedude10

I think some if not several of the character cases are merely Messianic Archetype with an otherwise completely non-Christian-like religion around them.

Thanks, didn't know that.

edited 19th Jun '11 11:37:31 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I thought Crystal Dragon Jesus applied to any fictional religion which is essentially a real life religion with the serials filed off.

Edit: if it doesn't, it probably should be expanded to that.

edited 19th Jun '11 2:02:14 PM by savage

Want to rename a trope? Step one: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It could also use a better name - with the original preserved as a redirect - since it's conducive to the misconceptions I had previously detailed and which lead to the misuse already described.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Bump.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

How about Crystal Dragon God?

UN JOUR JE SERAI DE RETOUR PRÈS DE TOI

Crystal Dragon Deity would avoid easy confusion with the Abrahamic God.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I guess we need a rename or not crowner.

For the record, I don't think it needs a rename.

Then please provide another plausible for the Trope Decay, since the description is quite clear that it's not supposed to be about the deity of the religion, but the religion itself.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

What Trope Decay? No one's shown any as yet.

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

Considering how many Jesus Yamato links that are around there is probably a lot of misuse. (and there are alot more like that in anime.)

edited 26th Jun '11 2:49:28 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

@Daremo: The OP cited some.

I clicked on a random sampling from the Related page.

• Dissidia: Final Fantasy: Trope does not appear. Must be a glitch.
• PlayingWith.Ascend To A Higher Plane Of Existence: Refers to a deity. Incorrect
• Being Good Sucks: Refers to a deity. Incorrect
• Bug War: Refers to the Emperor. The Ecclesiarchy does resemble the Catholic Church, but this is intentional; it's not just done that way to look European. Incorrect
• Cluster F-Bomb: Refers to Super Mecha Death Christ. Incorrect
• De-Power: Refers to a deity. Incorrect
• Drakengard: Refers to an organisation. Correct
• Fallen Angel: Refers to a deity. Incorrect
• From Nobody to Nightmare: Refers to a deity. Incorrect'
• God Tropes: Index page. Ambiguous.
• Hollywood Atheist: Refers to a deity. Incorrect
• Jesus Taboo: Refers to a deity. Incorrect
• Foe Yay.Literature: Refers to Aslan, who is in fact Jesus. Very incorrect
• Looking For Group: Refers to an organisation. Correct

So, out of 14 examples, only two use the trope correctly. One is ambiguous, and one is there due to a glitch.

It could use some more data, but this suggests widespread misuse. I suggest it be renamed Crystal Dragon Christianity for clarity.

Also, since someone inevitably cites the Laconic entry, the Laconic entry for Crystal Dragon Jesus, like the majority of the Laconic Wiki, is wrong.

edited 26th Jun '11 3:14:55 AM by VampireBuddha

Ukrainian Red Cross

Dissidia is or was probably referring to how cosmos sacrificed herself so her followers could have a chance in a very Jesus like manner.

Personally I think the misuse actually fits the title and (Very very trope worthy) we should probably just trope transplant the "correct" usage to another name.

Things like Aslan and such are very much a trope to themselves and fit the name.

edited 26th Jun '11 4:52:33 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Messianic Archetype?

Again, expanding the definition would be much easier than trying to curtail 90% misuse.

I agree with Raso. Jesus is a religious figure, so grammatically, Crystal Dragon Jesus refers to a fictional religious figure who resembles Jesus. And that's certainly tropeworthy.

I think a split is the best idea. Transfer the description over to a new trope, perhaps called Crystal Dragon Christianity or something, and write a new description for the title about fantasy religious figures who resemble Jesus. Aslan is a bit ambiguous, since he actually is Jesus, but the rest of them fit just fine.

(By the way, when I said that Dissidia was a glitch, I was referring to the fact that the page doesn't link to Crystal Dragon Jesus at all.)

@Mag Bas: It would be a subtrope. Any Christ-like figure is going to be a messianic archetype, but not every messianic archetype will bear significant similarities to Jesus.

Ukrainian Red Cross

Ok, now that we have some amount of documentation we can discuss what to do.

If that sample is representative, then I'd be for expanding the definition a touch. Real life religion thinly disguised rather naturally attaches a thinly disguised deity/leader/prophet character to go with it. Is a split really needed?

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

Not feasible, as that would require fixing aorund 700 wicks to the new trope name.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

No actual religion has to be attached to a Jesus Expy though (like the PC in Persona 3 for example.)

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Also, as I previously mentioned, a lot of the misuse that I've seen involves using the current name to describe a fantasy religion that may or may not bear extensive similarites/parallels to Real Life religions, which is not addressed by the proposed rename.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Somewhat related, trying to come up with a way to more clearly differentiate this from Interfaith Smoothie. They're quite different tropes, as I YKTTW'd the latter, there's a big difference between "fictional religion is based on a real religion" and "fictional religion is an amalgam of several real religions/philosophies", but I am noticing some examples on both that should probably go on the other page...

Edit: actually, I just noticed that Interfaith Smoothie seems to be floundering. Maybe because people are misapplying examples of it to Crystal Dragon Jesus? I'd have to check.

Double edit: Just did some skimming, and Crystal Dragon Jesus has at least half a dozen examples that should be under Interfaith Smoothie instead, and that's from me just idly poking down the article, looking for words like 'Buddhism'.

edited 27th Jun '11 11:23:27 AM by savage

Want to rename a trope? Step one: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Giving this a little bump.

Want to rename a trope? Step one: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I don't think just refering to a deity counts as missue. What else would one call the deity at the center of the religion?

The 'Ascended' one you mentioned may not be incorrect. Played straight, the trope is a mortal character ascending and becoming less prominent. Inverted, its a ascended charcater becomingh mortal and more prominent.

I've never played Warhammer, so I don't know for sure, but if the religion about the Emperor is or was similar to Christianity then he would be a Crystal Dragon Jesus. If on the other hand, the religion about the Emperor never was similar to Christianity, then the example is indeed missue.