Shoot me, I've jumped on the vampire bandwagon.

^ and ^^ both true statements, however, I suppose what my rant all boils down to, is don't rely on the mystique of 'vampires' to imply a sense of danger or horror or inhumanity to the characters that isn't actually there in the story. You have to PROVE it. I read so many vampire urban fantasies that in-story claim that vampires are horrible, awful, in-human creatures and yet subvert that at every turn with vampires who haven't done much worse than drink a little blood, make everyone squirm and pretend they are tricky while still giving the heroine all the help she asks for. The author essentially lies to the readers.

And you have to admit, the classic vampire is pretty much non-existent at this point in modern fantasy. Some might be lingering in the horror genre, but not much. If you want something TOTALLY fresh feeling, then that's going to be the way to go. We are rolling in emotional-vamps, and there isn't much you can do to them yet that hasn't been done to death in the last few years. Time to start revamping the old version. Reconstructed Trope and all that.

The problem with vampires is that the old-school limitations (like bursting ablaze or turning to ash when hit by sunlight, crosses, garlic, stakes'n'all) are horribly cheesy, and removing those is a recipe for an instant Mary Sue.

The only way out is a full-blown Reconstruction. Let's say that:

• Vampires don't immediately die if exposed to the sun, that's cheesy. Rather, vampires are very prone to sunburn: Skin slowly but surely gets blistered and peels off, the flesh beneath develops lacerations. Eventually, if a vampire stays under direct sunlight for too long, they die just like a person might die of sunburn and heat stroke.
• Vampires can feed from people non-lethally. However, ripping arteries open is inherently risky, so people can die even when the vampire tries not to. Many may not give a damn about people anyway and just kill them, vampires accidentally murdering humans they feed from in fits of hunger could be a constant worry.
• Instinct! Make vampires have aggressive, territorial, dominant instincts that get the better of them frequently. Y'know, they get instinctively pissed off at perceived slights or challenges, prone to short and violent tempers, that jazz.
• They might shrug off a few bullets to the torso, or even a few stabbings. However, make the Chunky Salsa Rule apply: If the vampire's head is reduced to chunky salsa or torn apart from the body, the vampire dies.

In short, a friendly neighborhood vampire (or a few'of'em) might be possible, but they'd be hard to get along with and they'd remain sort of dangerous even while trying not to. If they tried to, or they didn't give a damn, you could use them as Complete Monsters.

edited 21st Jun '11 7:12:02 AM by SavageHeathen

Or you could go further than old-school and look at the original version of Dracula and folklore. For example, sunlight didn't burn Dracula, it simply disabled his shapeshifting powers.

Yeah, but that's just bad writing. Show, Don't Tell, and all that. (For example, I refuse to believe that Oz was truly dangerous in werewolf form, because the only time he ever hurt anyone, it was someone Buffy might've been willing to slay.) I especially hate when they take away everything unpleasant about being a vampire, then have some angsty vampire claiming it's a curse. (Twilight is of course a prime example.)

But that doesn't mean that friendly vampires can't be done well. The Blood Books and Vampire Files are two series I think were done well. In both of those, the vampire didn't mind being a vampire, and their hesitancy to turn others was reasonable (in one case because vampires are territorial and their instincts meant he'd end up attacking his progeny if they didn't live apart, and in the other case because turning people had a low success rate).

Personally I quite like (don't hurt me) the Anita Blake version of vampires (BEFORE it turned into Erotica). While there are a lot of vampires in it that do the Angsty Anne Rice type Byronic Hero stuff, and some are even friendly, at no point do they stop being incredibly dangerous in-story. A vampire or other supernatural creatures is the main enemy in most of the books.

Well I've kind of gotten off the topic of helping you with your story. I guess the advice I would give is if you are going to do vampires in it, figure out how you want them to be portrayed and PROVE IT. If they are going to be dangerous, make them dangerous. If they are going to be friendly, don't have people walking around saying they are blood-sucking monsters (unless it's because they are misinformed idiots and we are supposed to hate them). Be consistent. So many people screw that part up.

And, this is a personal opinion, but I would say No attraction powers period. That sort of thing is very difficult to keep from being a Mary Sue. Then again you might be okay with that.

edited 21st Jun '11 5:37:32 PM by NoirGrimoir

Thread Hop: Welcome aboard, don't mention Twilight and we're all good here. They can be pretty boys that sparkle as long as the plot is better and less predictable than Twilight.

• I've been in love with vampires since about age 12, and I'm almost 22 now, so it's more than bandwagon for me.

Personal opinion here: I HATE NICE VAMPIRRRRRRRRRRESSSSSSSSSSSS!

Seriously, though, I again want to ask: why is it necessary that the entities in your story are vampires, not any other kind of mythical creature? I honestly viewed vampires as much more effective as antagonists/monsters even before The Darkness Came Upon Us - the only reason I would ever write a good-guy vampire myself would be to avert Always Chaotic Evil, another Pet-Peeve Trope - and personally, I think vampires are one of the cases where that trope can actually make sense. So, again: why vamps?

Hey, fuck YOU. The first half and most of season one sucked ass. And since when was the story scary? It got darker over time, but it wasn't ever scary and probably the best two or three seasons imo was season 3,5, and 6.

Also way back at Noir and some other people, if you want to go to the real vampires, or energy vampires, go for the ones that suck out someone's life force psychicly. The thing is any kind of vampire is not bound by any set of traits. That check list of sunlight, stakes, crosses, ect ect was just one trope codification, not the original.

In my own religion there are non-corporeal spirit beings that take energy off of people, often without notice. AND DON'T CALL ME CRAZY. I have made contact multiple times with a particular one and she wasn't all this bull that the early church and folklore made her kind out to be; I went to older legends that predated the church and blah blah blah. Sorry about the off topic thing.

Anyway, vampires are not 'true' vampires just because of any one trope codification. The important thing with vampires is that they feed of of human life energy, and... well really that is about it. The one I mentioned earlier was vampiric by definition. That can be chi or blood, but if they feed of people then it's vampiric. Luckily the kind I know of first hand are not lethal, well, most of the time =D

My opinion is that in light of the recent backlash against them for the likes of Twilight, vampires don't really deserve their current reputation. They're not my preferred undead to be sure, but as long as you do something original with them they can neatly side-step the entire Stephanie Meyer conception and become something interesting and frightening.

In my universe, a lot of the common mythology regarding vampires is explained to be just that- mythology. One example would be vampires' classic aversion to light. It is true that sunlight does cause them to recoil and act as if in pain, as does all light, because the deal with them is that they have exceptional low-light vision but it's always on. Sunlight would render them blind and ineffective. It's also the reason for why they prefer poorly-lit haunts such as decrepit castles and such.

Is this original? I have a distinct feeling someone else has already done this with regards to explaining that aspect of vampire lore.

^ I haven't seen it before, likely because extreme sensitivity to light would affect a lot more than reaction to sunlight. They couldn't handle going into most public buildings when they're open, for example.

Calm down. I was talking about the mook-ification of vampires.

I was joking around with teh f you. sorry if it was taken like I was really mad. it was a playful 'f u'.

Sorry I've been dead for a week, Internet cut.

Ettina- I've toyed with the Idea Mother thinks she loves her children like they were her own, but really is, more like loving a pet, she get's called out on it when she adopts another child. Thank you for the long review.

Matthew the Raven- that's the vampire concept I like, the trade with the devil, not the angst writers are trying to put in, people get over things at a span of weeks, not 200 years. Sure, there will be at first, she basically has to hid from the world she grew up in, pretend to get hit by a bus all that, she makes the mistake of letting one of her friends see her as a last goodbye, doesn’t end well.

Feotakahari- I'm agreeing with Matthew the Raven, in the chapter she's turned it gives you the uncomfortable feeling of an assault.

Noir Grimoir- I've researched, I've kept as many as the vampire myths I've come across as accurate as it could in my book, and if I needed to change something, I made it as believable as possible.

bluepenguin- No sexy vampire brooding, it's more action, and the bad side of family, corruption, the less glamorous side of sex, not a girl meets monster, girl loves monster, girl eventually becomes monster. Hate those.

Savage Heathen- Dude, I had most of those in mind, but permission to use? I hadn't written them down yet. But I had a scene where a vamp get's head shot and my main character is expecting him to heal. He doesn't.

Vyctorian- thank you, I've been into vampires since I was 11, and I'm 16 now.

Gault- the light thing came from a movie in the... 60's? 70's? bad memory and in total agreement of the vampire reputation.

My Vampires are going to be terrifying, they kill people, they have different personalities like people, how does that change them? Some just rely on blood banks, the majority hunt, covens, and their enemy the Hunters, who also made a deal with the evil to take down vampires in exchange for it being a curse down the family line. It's going to be a challenge to write it, meeting expectations, not making it cheesy, making good enough for people to read past the prologue. I came to the right place for advice :).

Double post:

• A hunter's way of executing a vampire is tying them to a post and waiting for the sun to come up, they can last a while in the sun, an hour, tops. Resistance varies but none last until sunset, it's like fire to them, burning at them.

• Vampires have developed a system. I really can't see them not doing so, you stick fifty people on an island someone is going to try and take charge. it's the same. it's a toss up on a vampire King/Queen, still deciding but I read that's been done.

• Vampire system includes forgery, new identies every few dozen years.

• Hunters are both family and a clan, you're born in one, you die in one, both genders are trained since they could walk, men are the ones that hunt down and trap vampires, women are only called in hard times.

• Hunter blood can cancel out vampire trying to turn them. Healthy, they have a good chance on fighting vampirehood off. Being weakened, before being biten there is not a good chance of surviving, Hunter blood is designed to ward of venom, failing, it will kill the hunter before they become a vampire. Some hunters have become vampires by a very slim chance.

• Some vampires live ordinary lives, SOME.

• A vampire bite is like a memory lapse, even if they are not turned, the victem does not remember what happens shortly before and after they are bitten.

The first book:

• Pro: Mother has finished adopting Tailia. A young hunter has cornered her, telling her to give up the baby because the hunter believe she is not safe and is being used to be a fresh supply of blood. Baby carriage roles down hill, hunter saves Tailia, sees Mother is having an ulcur. He takes pity on her, thinking she really cares, and gives Tailia back.
• Chap 1: 15 years later. Tailia nows her mother is a vampire and is going trough albums and looking at centry old siblings. On the way to school she meets a vampire looking for her mother, asked to past on a message, she blacks out and wakes up in a field 3 miles away, it's dark. Mother calls her on her cellphone, realizes she's been turned 'It feels like I'm on fire.'

... And Im still on chapter one.