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Split?: Instant Sedation
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Split?: Instant Sedation get usage counts

Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
A while back, I was adding tropes to Batman '66, and wanted to add an example for "Knockout Gas, " the multicolored gases used so very often on the show both by heroes and villains.

It seemed to fall under Instant Sedation, but I also added a redirect to Knockout Gas.

On reflection, I wonder whether they should be two separate tropes (or perhaps a supertrope/subtrope relationship.) The Instant Sedation description mostly talks about more or less "up close and personal" sedation - used on one person at a time, usually by means of injection, darts, or "chloroform mask". The typical use of Knockout Gas seems quite different both in form and in storytelling. Knockout Gas can affect an entire room, and may be triggered remotely, for example.

Would a split make sense here?
 2 Madrugada, Sat, 4th Jun '11 6:23:26 AM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
I'd say that Knockout Gas is different and not a subtrope, but usually with heavy overlap. Instant Sedation is about the general effect — unconsciousness, Right Now!, and Knockout Gas is one specific method of delivery (that usually has that effect.)

edited 4th Jun '11 6:23:46 AM by Madrugada

'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 3 Deboss, Sat, 4th Jun '11 9:37:01 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Support. We should have a "Splitting Trope" tag for YKTTW. Most of the time I've done that, even when I slap a banner at the top, the first five comments are inevitably "we've got this covered by X".
 4 Caissas Death Angel, Sat, 4th Jun '11 12:32:46 PM from Dumfries, SW Scotland Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
Agree that these are two tropes. Knockout gas doesn't necessarily have to cause Instant Sedation, though obviously quite often does. Regardless, it's certainly an element of fiction in its own right.
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
Dragon Writer
Bump. Should we split? I was trying to link Instant Knockout Gas a little while ago but came up empty.
 6 nrjxll, Sat, 20th Aug '11 5:49:09 PM Relationship Status: Not war
I can certainly get behind making a Knockout Gas trope. Always struck me as strange that we had Deadly Gas but not the non-lethal equivalent.

 7 Louie W, Wed, 24th Aug '11 1:11:36 PM from Babycowland
Loser
There is now a page action crowner for this trope here. I imagine that the split option is probably all we really need, but I made a page action crowner just in case.
"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
 8 shimaspawn, Thu, 15th Sep '11 9:17:33 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Consensus is unanimous to split off Knockout Gas. Anyone have any ideas for the trope definition?
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 9 Madrugada, Thu, 15th Sep '11 9:26:10 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
"In fiction, one of the easiest ways to incapacitate an opponent or group of opponents is to get them in a closed room and pump in Knockout Gas. Knockout gas is an area-effect form of Instant Sedation: as soon as the victims breathe it, they cough weakly a few times and then slump to the floor unconscious.

Virtually always delivered as a visible fog, and often brightly colored as well, Knockout Gas can be delivered through special vents just for that purpose, or it can be pumped in through the regular ventilation system. As with other forms of Instant Sedation, dosage doesn't seem to matter; the effects last just long enough for maximum tension or drama; and if an antidote is needed, it usually takes the form of an injection, although something like smelling salts may work. Recovery tends to be just as fast as the onset, and the victims rarely suffer any lasting effects beyond, perhaps, a mild headache.

Villains are far more likely to use Knockout Gas than heroes are.

edited 15th Sep '11 9:31:53 PM by Madrugada

'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 10 shimaspawn, Thu, 15th Sep '11 9:27:53 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Thanks. I'm going to take that and start up a YKTTW before I head to bed.

Edit: It's here. Still working on copying over examples.

edited 15th Sep '11 9:30:31 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 11 Madrugada, Thu, 15th Sep '11 9:32:23 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Tweaked it a bit more. Did I miss anything important?
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 12 shimaspawn, Thu, 15th Sep '11 9:49:03 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I added a note on the YKTTW that Instant Sedation was the supertrope and Deadly Gas was a sister trope, but I think other than that we have it covered. I've got the examples up on there now.

Going through the examples on Instant Sedation though, we might want to split off Tranquillizing Dart. That's the most used example on the page.

edited 15th Sep '11 9:50:16 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 13 Madrugada, Thu, 15th Sep '11 10:15:16 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Sounds like a plan.

'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 14 shimaspawn, Thu, 15th Sep '11 10:20:30 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I'll make up a YKTTW for that trope too then.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
Very nice! I had been meaning to do something about this myself, but looks like things are well in hand.
 16 shimaspawn, Fri, 16th Sep '11 8:37:36 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
A large chunk of the page definition really needs to be moved to analysis. We don't need a lesson in narcotics, and I don't see why it needs three pages of text to say "Something knocks someone out in an instant harmlessly."

If you want to handle that, Sue, I'd really appreciate it.

edited 16th Sep '11 8:38:27 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 17 Fighteer, Fri, 16th Sep '11 8:40:28 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Sorry to interrupt here but there's a second problem with Instant Sedation — namely the Wall of Text description. All that diatribe about how unrealistic the trope is belongs in Useful Notes (or Analysis), and needs to be rewritten anyway as it's poorly organized and repeats itself repeatedly.

Edit: Holy crap ninjaed!

edited 16th Sep '11 8:40:49 AM by Fighteer

Ironically, the pursuit of the definition of happiness does not appear to be a happiness-maximizing behavior.
 18 shimaspawn, Fri, 16th Sep '11 8:44:28 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I extend my offer to you too, Fighteer. I'm working on splitting off the subtropes. If you can handle the definition, it would be awesome. It needs a chainsaw.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 19 Fighteer, Fri, 16th Sep '11 8:59:34 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
It has been done. I don't have time to edit the Analysis part now; I'll work on that later, but I copied the text.
Ironically, the pursuit of the definition of happiness does not appear to be a happiness-maximizing behavior.
 20 shimaspawn, Fri, 16th Sep '11 9:14:52 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I'm going to tweak it a little. Method doesn't really matter and Knock Out Gas and Tranquillizer Dart are going to be a subtropes. The stinky cheese counts just as much for this trope as more traditional variants.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 21 Madrugada, Fri, 16th Sep '11 10:31:40 AM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Shima, I moved the Doc Savage Fear cay example up under the Doc Savage main bullet, and added a pothole to Fridge Logic to the fact that he smelled it without breathing it, so he could hold his breath. I still don't get how that is supposed to work.

And Sue, since you're one of the resident experts on old comics and the Batman tv show, if you approve, I'm delighted.

edited 16th Sep '11 10:36:07 AM by Madrugada

'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 22 shimaspawn, Fri, 16th Sep '11 10:38:44 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Logic is occasionally lacking in fiction. I don't get it either.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 23 Madrugada, Fri, 16th Sep '11 11:01:36 AM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
How's this for Tranquilizer Dart?

"If a character needs some Instant Sedation, one of the most common delivery methods is the Tranquilizer Dart. Simply put, this is a thin, pointed projectile that is shot at, thrown at, blown at, or otherwise flung at the victim from a distance. The sedative is either smeared on the dart or contained in an ampule or capsule attached to the dart. Blowguns and firearms are the most common way of propelling a Tranquilizer Dart.

Like other forms of Instant Sedation, Tranquilizer darts are subject to Artistic License - Medicine: the same dose will work on everyone, they work exactly as fast as the plot demands, are exactly as effective as the plot demands, the effects last exactly as long as the plot demands, and they generally have little or no aftereffects beyond a slight headache or some residual grogginess. The victim may also either feel nothing, or react as though to an insect bite.

Occasionally the dart will have a non-sedative but related effect, delivering a paralytic or amnesiac drug instead, so the victim is still conscious but either can't move or won't remember what happened.

Compare to Knockout Gas, a way to get an area effect."

edited 16th Sep '11 11:04:37 AM by Madrugada

'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 24 shimaspawn, Fri, 16th Sep '11 11:11:22 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I still like the line I have

"This small projectile, usually fired into the neck or buttocks, seems to put the target to sleep with only enough time to pluck out the dart and stare at it in amazement before passing out. If that much."

Because that shot really is a big part of how this trope shows up in media. That reaction shot where they pull out the dart, look at it, and then pass out seems to be a big visual part of the trope.

The current YKTTW

edited 16th Sep '11 11:18:00 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 25 Fighteer, Fri, 16th Sep '11 11:26:09 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
I suggest a merge of Tranquilizer Dart with Poison Dart, or at least some mention of the latter. Darts are as often used to deliver fatal poisons as they are nonfatal ones.
Ironically, the pursuit of the definition of happiness does not appear to be a happiness-maximizing behavior.

Page Action: Instant Sedation
24th Aug '11 1:09:26 PM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Total posts: 41
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