WallOfText: Evolutionary Levels

Seriously, what the hell? I'll be back in a while, I'm doing something, but we seriously need to trim this down. If we need to, dump stuff on UsefulNotes.Evolution and Analysis.Evolutionary Levels.

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Okay, I took a crack at, but it's still pretty damn big. If someone more skilled would do a rewrite, I'd be very appreciative.

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Alright, somebody brought this up in Natter Alert. So a cleaning we will go.

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I tried starting a new description in Sandbox.Evolutionary Levels, but I'm drawing a blank on how to fill it out. I don't think this is something where I can just chop out sections of the description to get a more concise version.

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We should also remove some non-examples. Concept of ancient Golden Age has nothing to do with the trope

"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey

'k.

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Are there still issues to be resolved here, or can we lock this down?

edited 26th Sep '11 2:24:56 PM by MarqFJA

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I think the sandbox version may be a little too short, but I agree that the current version is too long.

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For some reason, I think we should split this. I'm thinking Goal-Oriented Evolution (with Evolutionary Levels as a subtrope) and Metamorphic Evolution for when it's done within a single creature (I see no reason to have those on the same trope since they're only really connected by being wrong). Maybe Evolution Is Shapeshifting for when the word evolution is used for shapeshifting of some kind?

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The split makes a whole lot of sense. I'm less sure about the supertrope, since the ideas really aren't that closely related. The shapeshifting kind isn't actually evolution in the biological sense at all.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Goal-Oriented Evolution is the supertrope to Evolutionary Levels because it's possible to depict evolution in a way other than by leveling up, but still directed toward something like Energy Beings or Superpowers. I think Star Trek worked that way, but something like the X Men movie did the latter.

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Yeah, I guess the X-Men movie did feature both types after a fashion, and at least suggested that they were related. I can see what you have in mind. Would YKTTW be the best way to handle the supertrope? Or were you thinking an exampleless supertrope? (I can't really imagine that there are examples of the supertrope that aren't actually examples of one or the other subtropes, even if, like the X-Men movie, a work may feature both.)

(I tend to think it's silly to have an exampleless supertrope when all the examples fit neatly into one of the subtropes, but Eddie has hinted that he feels the opposite, and he's the boss....)

edited 27th Sep '11 6:49:34 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Nah, I think YKTTW is the best idea. I think somebody else writing the description would be a good idea. For the record, Goal-Oriented Evolution wouldn't have Metamorphic Evolution as a subtrope, that would basically be it's own thing. I'm also not sure how to fit in stuff like Lamarck Was Right and Adaptive Ability. Maybe we need a Special Efforts on how to sort these tropes? Perhaps Trope Talk would be a better place?

edited 27th Sep '11 7:24:34 PM by Deboss

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Supporting a split; there's like four different definitions/understandings there.

The sad, REAL American dichotomy

Also support a split. This is three different tropes:

• "A species doesn't evolve to fit a niche, but instead evolves into superbeings" (Goal-Oriented evolution)
• "Evolution in one individual as a power up." (Metamorphic Evolution like in most Mons franchises).
  • De-Evolution (the idea that applied phelbotinum can turn a man back into a monkey, as in the Super Mario Bros film).

As well as the standard "Evolutionary Levels" where evolution moves in discrete instances and otherwise remains stagnant (this is the trope most Evilutionary Biologist believe in).

edited 12th Dec '11 7:43:14 PM by Deboss

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I always thought that was more or less the same as goal-oriented evolution.

Sort of. Evolutionary Levels is about evolution occurring in bursts of on and off which may be random, instead of an "always moving with occasional bursts in the event of a massive stressor or highly effective mutation". Goal-Oriented Evolution would be that evolution "moves forward" toward Energy Beings or Ascended to a Higher Plane of Existence or Super Powers or something, what it's moving toward isn't important as long as it's moving toward it. They often overlap because most instances of Goal-Oriented Evolution will refer to the "stage" or "nest step" of evolution the critter is at in comparison to the "sapient humanoid" stage.

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When Niles Eldridge and Steven Jay Gould theorized that evolution works this way in Real Life, they called it Punctuated Equilibrium.

True, I'm not sure it would make a general good name though (as are most things that don't give you a clue as to what subject they're talking about). I'm okay with leaving that trope here or moving it to Punctuated Equilibrium depending on the action.

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• Evolutionary Levels / Punctuated Evolution: Evolution depicted not as a gradual process, but as rapid periods of change where there are periods of each individual organism being distinct from each other. IE, one day a dinosaur gives birth to a bird.
  • Evolution Power-Up / Individual Evolution : An individual's transformation into a powerful form is called evolution instead of metamorphosis or transformation. IE, a dinosaur morphs wings to go into combat and it's said to have evolved.
  • Goal-Oriented Evolution / Evolution Based Ascension: Evolution's main premise is that a species becomes more powerful and more godlike the longer it goes on, with the ultimate stage inevitably being either energy beings, gods, or both.
  • De Evolution Ray: A piece of magic or technology that transforms individuals into prehistoric, usually weaker species - a beam that transforms a human into an ape is a common example.

Looks good to me.

edited 13th Dec '11 3:36:39 PM by wanderlustwarrior

The sad, REAL American dichotomy

I have exams and a sickness to get over, so if anyone else wants to handle it or YTTW the four distinct tropes, feel free. If not, I'll come back to it in a few weeks and start sifting through everything.

I can take them there, but I may not be able to keep up with them. If I do a basic writeup, can someone else keep up with the actual YKTTW process of lumping in examples and formatting and what not?

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I'll keep up with it.

In return, I could use some help with something else. I've currently got 10 YKTTW active, and I can launch between 4-6 tomorrow. However, of those 6, one (that I grabbed and formatted) has 1 hat and the other has 3. There's nothing keeping them from getting more. Could you guys please add hats to Favors for the Sexy and hats/indexes/examples for Creator Career Self-Deprecation?

The sad, REAL American dichotomy