Western RPGs

The party in DA 2 was relatively stable especially compared to say Mass Effect 2. Varric and Aveline are downright normal for Bio Ware characters, Merril, Fenris and Isabela are at the typical Bio Ware level of backstory issues and angst. Carver has an average inferiority complex and Bethany has typical I Just Want to Be Normal issues.

The only one who seems to barely approach the level of what you guys are talking about (I haven't played the Witcher but I wouldn't call the party of DA 2 corrupted rapists) is Anders after he jumps off the deep end in Act 3 and blows up the Chantry for "freedom" and before that even he was normal for an RPG character.

edited 22nd May '11 12:51:26 PM by Rationalinsanity

And note that in response to Anders jumping right off the deep end, the game basically has his mass murder treated as such. You, the player, seem expected to disapprove of his act unless you are also a fanatic mage liberationist, to the point that they give you a ready choice of "kill Anders for being a total monster."

The only problem with the writing was not giving you a dialog option that delves in depth to how *stupid* his move was, even from a pragmatic perspective. Because seriously, there is no good path for mages after that decision. The best they could hope for is for a relative handful of survivors to become the newest bottom rung of the magely hierarchy in the expanded Tevinter Imperium.

edited 22nd May '11 7:31:54 PM by metaphysician

I only let him live because he was the only decent healer I had. I still told him to fuck himself and that he was a murderer.

My god! So much spoiler text!

Anyways, I didn't really respond to this thread until now because it was for some reason removed from my watchlist and I completely forgot about it. From what I'm reading so far, Arcanum seems to be a very solid recommendation.

And I was also wondering just how much of an RPG you guys consider Borderlands to be.

Arcanum is a game with great ideas and a terrible execution. I like it because I played it after the fan patches fixed half of the innumerable bugs. If you want a SOLID rec, go for Planescape: Torment.

Borderlands is as much an RPG as Diablo is. Take that as you will.

Western RPG recommendations? I would say the Ultima series (Stay away from 8 and 9.), and the games made by Spiderweb Software.

Also, nthing Planescape Torment.

"Arcanum is a game with great ideas and a terrible execution'

Nah, Arcanum is still pretty good, would have been even better with a good publisher.

The only thing Arcanum really needed, IMO, was enough extra time/money to give it some more polish. And by polish, I largely mean "better balance between magic and tech."

What? No, it needed months of bug testing. Even with the unofficial patches, the WIP installation and everything custom tweaked to your every need it's still got bugs. The magic/tech balance would have come naturally as a result of that.

Given that Troika=Obsidian, the proper response to any game released by them should be obvious.

EDIT: I should mention that Arcanum is a very good game, just not a terribly polished one.

edited 23rd May '11 4:59:19 PM by Watashiwa

I have a couple of questions for all Western RPG fans here. They are not factual questions but ones about opinions and preferred playing styles.

When you play an RPG, do you try to see as much of it (side quests, bonus bosses, easter egss, etc.) as you can in the very first playthrough, or are you OK with missing out on some content because you can beat the game faster and take another go at it? What's the most times you've replayed an RPG? When you replay an RPG (assuming it's not completely linear), do you tend to make the same choices as on the first playthrough, or do you deliberately try out the opposite? Do you use external sources (walkthroughs, wikis) to make sure you didn't miss anything before finishing the quest/leaving the location? How much do you level-grind: not at all, just enough to beat the plot bosses, or as far as it goes? When you gain levels, do you distribute new attribute/skill points immediately or keep them until you need them (if the game allows this)? In RPGs with Lazy Backup, do you keep the entire party equipped with the strongest gear, or do you concentrate on the default standing party only? How often do you save your game and do you overwrite old saves (if not forced to by limited save slots)?

edited 7th Dec '12 7:55:34 AM by Koveras

So I guess there are no Western RPG fans in this thread. Moving on...

I just saw this! Thanks for the bump. :D

I tend to try and complete quite a few side quests at the start of the game, but I'll get frustrated and move on to solely focus on the main quest about two-thirds of the way through. I think this is partly because I've become used to the game and it's stopped surprising me, but also because the main plot's become more urgent and I'm excited to see it through.

Twice, though there'll be a few more false starts if I really like the game. I came to RP Gs fairly recently in my gaming life, so I don't usually have the time to indulge in games or one game in particular.

I tend to go for the opposite, but I'll often not be able to remember the exact choices I've made. I tend to find that most WRP Gs tend to supply only two paths through a game though, so it's usually easy to remember.

Not with WRP Gs. I tend to find them fairly open (dare I say shallow?) and not in need of extra research unlike JRP Gs. I've found a bit from talking online, though.

Not at all. I find that most WRPG games are fairly anti-grind, if you're exploring all the obvious side paths. Which is something I tend to do, since I'm interested in tracking down any extra nuggets of story I can.

Immediately. I can't think of any games that allow you, actually. Enemies tend to scale with you besides, but I'm usually interested in trying out a new power or ability, or having access to a potential new conversation option.

I tend to be balanced, in case the game decides to take a party member away from me or force me to use one in another case. The only game I've ever bothered with a single party set-up is a JRPG — my never-ending run of Digital Devil Saga.

Fairly often, alternating between two to five save states depending on the game. I tend to save more often in first person WRP Gs, if that helps.

Hope that helped you! :D

edited 9th Dec '12 3:22:16 AM by Nicknacks

• On content: Eh, I'll try getting as much as I can in a normal game, but I won't really mind if I miss out on some things.
• On replaying: I'm usually done after the first playthrough, but sometimes I'll just replay it through if I'm in the mood. I think I've done that at least once or twice on one game. I'm too much of a goody-two shoes when it comes to morality, so my path is usually static.
• On Walkthroughs: I might look up one if there's a puzzle/enemy that I'm stuck on. And on things that are easisally missed.
• On grinding levels: Eh, I tend to dislike grinding, if it's a game with non-respawning monsters then I'll clear them all out before leaving, but I might do so if I'm really behind on equipment. Points I usually just spend instantly. Don't recall any games that conserving them would be beneficial.
• On Parties: Kinda depends, if there isn't any shared EXP, I'll just use the ones that are requires and/or really useful. Otherwise, I'll try and balance them out, and switch between them on occasions
• On saves: A ton, I keep around at least 4 or 5.

1. I'll usually try to do as much as interests me in a first run, though I don't tend to try for 100% at all, much less the first time.

2. I actually own very few games (too much effort and money to buy more, honestly, though there are a lot I want to play) so I replay my games, especially the RP Gs at least 2 or 3 times. Though some (Mass Effect) get upwards of ten replays.

3. I do not use walkthroughs unless I get well and truly stuck. I want to enjoy the game on my own, not have the internet influence my decisions by telling me the "optimal" path. I did actually use a strategy guid on Knights of the Old Republic, and probably enjoyed it less than I could have because of it.

4. Fuck grinding.

5. Depends on the game. If there's an easy way to equip my entire party that doesn't involve switching them all around every few hours (such as the lockers in Mass Effect, and the party screen in Dragon Age) then yes, I like all of my time to have the same level of fancy gear I have, and not be stuck in the rags they started with.

6. I'm really bad at saves. I keep one. That's it.

But that's also because I'm afraid of overwriting if I restart. With games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, where the developers actually made that impossible (<3 that system) I have no excuse, though.

Oh, I did get some replies, after all. Thanks, guys, it's interesting to see different opinions. :)

I guess I could answer my own questions to keep this questionnaire going...

I am totally obsessive-compulsive about side quests. -___- When I play an RPG, I am usually act on assumption that I will not have time to replay it, so I am ready to run around for hours for that lousy last portion of XP.

I replayed Mass Effect 2 three times, mainly for its awesomely epic ending.

I usually go for Neutral Good choices, and whenever I decide to try out something different, I end up falling back to the same choices again.

Yes, I must admit that I do, because while I love discovering new things and completing new quests, I hate Back Tracking with passion and try to minimize its amount. This did leave me with quite a few spoiler burns.

My OCD makes reaching the level cap one of the main goals in the game. Failing that, I at least must be able to beat every boss I can find—preferably with ease. Curbstomping endgame bosses is one of my favorite things in RPGs.

Occasionally. Since I tend to forget which direction I wanted to develop my character in between level-ups, I sometimes conserve skill points to be able to learn well-synergized skill combinations in one go.

I tend to settle in for the default party early in the game and they always get the best gear, but I always keep the rest of the party well-equipped at all times.

I am extremely paranoid when it comes to saves. I quick-save before and after every enemy encounter, dialogue, successful lock pick/trap disarm, location transition, and even simply after walking for more than a couple of minutes. And I also tend to keep an ungodly number of static saves, which I never overwrite unless the game forces me to. I think I had about a 100 in my Dragon Age: Origins profile by end of Witch Hunt...

edited 12th Dec '12 8:09:33 AM by Koveras

Due to Various Reasons [TM] I ended up re-reading Gamespot's review of BG 2:

"It's a definitive role-playing experience, and the only reason it can't be called the best game in its class is because in a sense there's nothing available that compares to it."

So, you think Dark Millennium is ever going to be released?

edited 12th Dec '12 10:10:22 AM by RLNice

THQ seems to be in a bit of a bind, so they might be on that when they're done with Metro, Co H 2...and that one South Park game I've heard about.

Good Western RPG: Gladius. It's one of the Non-Starwars games Lucas Arts put out. Sadly, there's no sequel, and I've never actually heard much about it outside of owning it myself.

edited 12th Dec '12 4:08:02 PM by Journeyman

I tend to see most of the content in one go.

By far my most played RPG is Mass Effect 2, with nine playthroughs and two aborted half-playthroughs. This is mostly due to the short length, only thirty-five or so hours with all DLC, and the fact that the game heavily encourages you to at least have six playthroughs by having six distinctive classes. The RPG I've spent the most time on is Fallout: New Vegas; I've played it three times, over three hundred hours.

My first two playthroughs are usually the same, with third being different.

Yes.

Eh... define level grinding. I don't exploit repeatable fetch quests or respawning monsters, but I do do sidequests first, if that counts. I'm usually pretty over leveled for the main plot.

Always immediately. I think I've played one series that actually lets you keep them.

I'm usually swimming in high level weapons and armor, so I just give it to everyone.

I save a lot. I usually delete old saves. But I have a need to have a save right before every (major) boss in the game, which is fine, since I can do that on one playthrough.

edited 12th Dec '12 4:26:37 PM by CPFMfan

Another batch for my questionnaire: How much do you usually customize your characters? Do you modify your characters' faces or take the default ones? Do you take predefined character templates, if available? Do you accept automatically suggested skill level ups, if available?

The only thing I don't customize much is the face, because they tend to look like shit, so I only modify slightly the base templates. However, when it comes to levelling, I never take the automatic options. Customization, especially in regards to combat, is what mainly draws me to WRPG's. Speaking of which, I started DA 2 but dropped it due to the underwhelming combat. Does it get better?

I don't really play many actual RP Gs, but I do play a series of Strategy games with RPG elements called Mount and Blade. It's a sandbox series with character levels, but the major focus is on gathering and leading an army. I've put in, all up, close to a thousand hours, if not more, on that series alone.

And on that one, I customize the Companions' stats and equipment. The faces and names you can't touch without modding the game code, and I'm not interested in tapping into that just to change cosmetics. The equipment you have to keep up to date, because the further you go the more fighting you'll be doing against enemies with better gear. Which you can loot, so as long as you win, there's a good chance you'll be able to upgrade your party's gear for free.

Unfortunately not. There's the occasional interesting fight in the game — usually quest bosses, though there are some occasionally great incidental fights — but for the most part it's fairly frustrating.

If you're keen on finishing the thing off, I'd advise you to turn the difficulty to low so you can blitz through those fights and then turn the difficulty up again when you get to certain points in the game (I'll PM you a list of what I think are good if you're interested — or we could discuss it in the Dragon Age 2 thread).