Offensive Useful Notes : Personality Disorders

Personality Disorders is listed as Useful Notes, yet the article is treated like any other tongue and cheek trope page with examples and everything, and it's OCD section is just a watered down Super OCD (which only accounts of 20% of actual suffers.) Can we please get a repair on this? The only thing this is useful for is spreading stereotypes. I will personally cover writing the useful notes for obsessive compulsive, and if it's not suppose to be useful notes can we remove it from the index as such.

Eddie himself approved that format. You can see his comment on the YKTTW. Wichita can be found here https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=aftrd6ulyxpj29yoxnfrzd6h.

To quote him.

Fast Eddie Said:Clear out the wikipedia stuff. If Wikipedia text fits your Useful Note, you are doing it wrong. Deadly serious about that. We have no desire to become the 123-millionth wikipedia clone on the internet. Find a funny or at least light way to say whatever it is, or leave it out.

Using media characters to illustrate symptoms is great, in fact. That's the kind of extra value we bring over wikipedia's approach.

edited 5th Apr '11 11:20:33 AM by FallenLegend

Approved or not it's wrong! It's not the format I have issues with it's the sweeping generalizations of these disorders, that treats them like jokes to attach to your Butt-Monkey instead of actual disorders people suffer from and then it's listed in useful notes, which is suppose according to the useful notes page-

• 1. To debunk common media stereotypes.
  • Doesn't do that in fact it supports them.

• 2. To help you understand some media better.
  • Helps people understand the stereotypes better sure.

• 3. To educate, inform and sometimes entertain.
  • Well It has the latter point on 3. down but not much for the first two.

It fails all three miserably!!!

In some area's it's a very good trope, but it need work major work. It not dismissing any stereotypes, it's offensive and it put forth stereotypes people who suffer from it have been trying to shake, as facts and people tend to believe whatever they read on the internet and making it a Useful Notes makes that even worse.

edited 5th Apr '11 11:41:50 AM by Vyctorian

I agree; even as someone without a personality disorder, this set of useful notes reads as fairly offensive to actual sufferers. I think it's possible to write it in a light-hearted tone while not offending the people affected by it, especially if the ones re-writing take advice from (if offered)/are the people affected by the disorders.

I'm a little uncomfortable with the overplayed images used on the page, as well, because they seem to add to the "haha, let's laugh at people who have personality disorders" vibe, which seems to contradict "light-hearted" because it's only light-hearted for people with certain types of sanity privilege? Idk.

I think a good example of how to do it right is the Asperger's useful notes, which is very cheerful and casual but doesn't read to me (as someone with ASD) as offensive? It's far less offensive than the wiki page, honestly, perhaps because of the light-heartedness :).

Good luck!

I spoke with jate the author of this one. The prupose of this article (as Eddie mentioned on the quote) is to show how the disorders are shown on media ( we are tv tropes afetr all).

For a serious scientific analysts we have Wikipedia and psychology books.

edited 5th Apr '11 11:45:09 AM by FallenLegend

I think the Asperger's useful notes is a perfect useful notes page, I'm hoping the personality disorders page could be something like that.

Then please remove it from the useful notes index as it doesn't belong their, and if that's the case why have useful notes to begin with. Just because your not wikipedia doesn't mean you get to support and spread ignorance like it's fact.

edited 5th Apr '11 11:44:38 AM by Vyctorian

Then it shouldn't be a Useful Notes page.

(Personally, I'd be in favor of deleting most of the Useful Notes pages, but I have no chance of winning that battle.)

edited 5th Apr '11 11:43:56 AM by silver2195

Better yet just give links to the wikipedia pages for useful notes instead, cuts our work load in half.

Like Useful Notes Atheism- Links to Wikipedia's atheism article.

I always liked the useful notes pages cause they felt like a one stop research center that had thing wikipedia didn't but apparently that's not what it's for.

edited 5th Apr '11 11:46:57 AM by Vyctorian

If it's about how personality disorders are shown in media, it shouldn't be in Useful Notes.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

edited 5th Apr '11 11:46:54 AM by DoktorvonEurotrash

Also, shouldn't the subcategory images be potholed to the works they are from? (Joker to The Dark Knight, Anakin to Star Wars, etc...)

Ya, this is looking like this isn't just a surface issue. The entire set up has issues.

If it's a "how it's used in media" it's not a Useful Notes, it's a Hollywood X, so the proper name would be Hollywood Personality Disorders. Useful Notes generally parallel Hollywood X as a companion "this is what reality is like" guide.

These seem okay, but we could do with taking a chainsaw to the aspergers article to make it less preachy (or even cut it entirely given how the subject seems to attract self-diagnosed jerks).

edited 5th Apr '11 2:49:29 PM by CrypticMirror

And rather keep it as is, otherwise the ignorant attitudes towards it would be allowed to grow and persist on this wiki. (Not saying they exist now just saying sociologically speaking they would likely to pop up.) By linking to a by tropers for tropers article we can clear it up in way that is clear and concise to tropers.

Just because a vocal minority abuses it doesn't mean it should be removed. I should remain so that we can have a reference of how it differs in real life from fiction.

Which brings me to the next point most wikipedia's pages are horrible for getting any real information from I learn 10 times more form a given subject than I do from wikipedia and I generally get a better understanding from it.

Also most tv tropes articles useful notes or not have some major issues with how they are written and come off as preachy or negative, which more than a few of my friends have pointed out multiple times.

edited 5th Apr '11 3:27:35 PM by Vyctorian

what DEBOSS suggested seems to be the best solution in my opinion.

edited 5th Apr '11 3:29:12 PM by FallenLegend

So remove it from the index and rename it?

edited 5th Apr '11 3:28:27 PM by Vyctorian

Well, if we're going to do that (which I support), we'd need a Single Proposition Crowner, correct?

edited 5th Apr '11 4:33:05 PM by 0dd1

This trope was my first time using YKTTW. I intended for it to be a useful notes page when I first wrote up on there but someone asked for pictures and fallen legend said the original article might be a case of too long didn't read. So I changed it up and I got a bit carried away. I figured Wiki Magic would take care of any problems.

and I'm sure it will, this is just the process ^.^

The Useful Notes Pages are supposed to be factual background information about the actual topic. "How X is used in media is" is what Trope pages are for. For instance, "Nazi Germany" includes information about Germany under Hitler. "Those Wacky Nazis" is how Nazis are portrayed in media.

We don't need to remove it, we can do a Trope Transplant from the Useful Notes page to Hollywood Personality Disorders. Do keep in mind that the main purpose of Useful Notes isn't to do an exhaustive description of the subject, just a quick description of it.

It'd be nice if someone more qualified could do a useful notes page on personality disorders.

Well, here's a problem. OCD is not a personality disorder, but an anxiety disorder. There is a similar personality disorder, but it's OCPD: Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder. The difference is that an OCD sufferer's thought and behaviors cause anxiety, while someone with OCPD actually enjoys them. The problem comes in how it hurts your ability to interact with others. For example, an OCD sufferer would be upset at always having to have things be perfect, while someone with OCPD would be upset about how his desire to make things perfect keeps him from being able to enjoy his flawed friends.

Sorry, that's a bit long. My point is that OCD is not a personality disorder and shouldn't be treated as such. I know. I have OCD, but not OCPD.

ditto that point.

What would the proper category for that be?