Rename: Xanatos Planned This Index

This index lists over 50 tropes. Two at most - Xanatos Gambit and Xanatos Roulette - have anything at all to do with Xanatos. Of those two, the second, despite its description of the index page, LARGELY has nothing to due with Xanatos. I realize that this site has several fans of the obscure Disney cartoon that featured this "Xanatos" but it makes zero sense to give any fictional character, much less THIS character, dominion over all plans and schemes.

If the community won't stand for the intuitive, logical Plans And Gambits, how about something like I Secretly Planned This Index? Just get "Xanatos" out of there...

edited 15th Feb '11 4:43:22 AM by Routerie

Xanatos is an evil mastermind genius.

Who many people have never heard of.

But as it's an index, it's misuse is very unlikely at best. Plus Redirects Are Free for those who want to search for other terms.

What he said

Also

Xanatos Planned This Index found in: 101 articles, excluding discussions.

This title has brought 7,163 people to the wiki from non-search engine links since 20th FEB '09.

7 thousands inbounds? On an INDEX? Heck no to a rename.

edited 18th Feb '11 6:31:50 PM by Ghilz

Sorry but I vote for the current name to stay

edited 18th Feb '11 6:57:42 PM by FallenLegend

Why people are liking so much on an index? O.o

Yeah, I never heard of this Xanatos guy before this wiki, but I vote for keeping this name. His name really seems to have power in this wiki, somehow.

edited 18th Feb '11 7:37:39 PM by Heatth

Tropes Of Legend have a "de facto" inmunity to the rules.Due to the fact that they are very popular (this place is a semi-democracy). You can see the related discussion here. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1297748086043520100&page=1#16

Xanatos Gambit started all the trend of "gambit" tropes. So renaming this index would need first the rename of all the xanatos gambits. Something that is unlikely if you see the discussion above.

edited 18th Feb '11 9:24:51 PM by FallenLegend

There is currently a push to rename the Xanatropes other than Xanatos Gambit since they are contributing to the Trope Decay of Xanatos Gambit—the actual Trope Of Legend among them, and thus the one that would get to keep the "Xanatos" name. If the renames go through (which is still easily within the realm of possibility), there'd be only one true Xanatrope on the index.

edited 19th Feb '11 2:55:57 AM by Ironeye

Yet many of the other xanatos tropes are nearly just as popular as Xanatos Gambit, I bet they beat out quite a few of the other Tropes Of Legend. Well, actually, Xanatos Roulette is a trope of legend...so yeah.

Why do people expend so much effort to try to fix what isn't broken?

It's not that some tropes get to "ignore the rules", it's that the reasons why guidelines exist don't apply to every thing. Name changes are to repair tropes that are not working in some manner. "I don't like the name" is not a repairable aspect.

Daremo, mostly it's a Cultural Cringe effect. They want it to be something on par with you know where, and something they can gleefully cite in essays, papers, or just boast about their innate knowledge of storytelling mechanics to their mates. it doesn't sound so posh and culturally acceptable if a trope is named after a cartoon character, because cartoons are for kids, even worse if it is an anime trope because everyone knows anime is only liked by little kids, weeaboos or perverts.

For a few others it is the sense of importance they get by having a trope with the name they chose on it, even if they have to rename something to get it. And of course the more tropes they have named, the more important they get to feel.

edited 19th Feb '11 8:35:23 AM by CrypticMirror

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally my concern with in-jokey and fandom-exclusive titles is that they are making the wiki less accessible and can make newbies feel excluded until they "get with the program" regarding the fact that, say, Xanatos is supposed to be someone they care about and he is supposed to be a meaningful icon to them. To me it seems very natural that someone would say "Why the hell should I know who this Xanatos guy is if I want in on your troping business?".

From my point of view, this whole Character Named Trope thing- naming a plot device after someone who has not in any way pioneered it and depending on who you ask may not even be the Most Triumphant Example, and most probably will be forgotten in 20 years - reeks of Fan Myopia. If There Is No Such Thing As Notability, our default position at least should be that no example is notable enough to be a Trope Namer by sole virtue of that-notability-that-there-is-no-thing-such-as.

Would you disagree with that point of view? I bet you would, and I can already see several valid counter-arguments to it, but saying stuff like is just uncalled for. People who take this point of view are doing what they think is best for the Wiki as much as you are. We could play "demonize the people who disagree with you" all day and nobody would be the better for it.

edited 19th Feb '11 10:56:49 AM by TripleElation

"There is currently a push to rename the Xanatropes other than Xanatos Gambit since they are contributing to the Trope Decay of Xanatos Gambit—the actual Trope Of Legend among them, and thus the one that would get to keep the "Xanatos" name. If the renames go through (which is still easily within the realm of possibility), there'd be only one true Xanatrope on the index." - Ironeye

Still though, that Xanatos is a major example of being a skilled supervillain while still being not completely evil helps for an index about gambits that include ones used by heroes, by villains, or by both.

^You'd really go as far as to call Xanatos a major example... of anything? I mean, I haven't heard of him before discovering This Wiki, and I highly doubt that he's anywhere near the iconic status of most fictional characters deserving of being called a major example of something outside of the most devout Gargoyles fan communities.

edited 19th Feb '11 10:57:24 AM by SeanMurrayI

Whatever happens to the name of this trope....remember this....Xanatos planned it!

↑↑"I haven't heard of this" is not a justification to say that that "this" is obscure. You can have lived up to 5 years old not knowing what the word "banana" means; that in no way makes it a barely known fruit.

Besides, what would you know about deserve? Xanatos is one of those cases where the character names the trope fairly well when contrasted to, say, The Aragorn.The character may not be unique (there are bound to have such nifty chessmasters before him) but then again he doesn't have to. It is the "similar tropes" that have to be deXanatosized, but neither the base trope, nor the index, have any problem or are of any less value just because they are named after that guy.

edited 13th Mar '11 12:12:15 PM by SilentReverence

I vote against renaming this. The name is working, and the name has a great ring to it.

I don't think this index should be renamed and here's why, the name Xanatos is really just a place holder. It could just as easily be I Planned This Index and still make sense. The important bit of context here is Planned This Index. Not Xanatos.

I only have the vaguest idea who Xanatos is, but I really don't think it matters. This has nothing to do with Gargoyles anymore, it's just Xanatos. I'd wager that more people know the phrase Xanatos Gambit now than were ever fans of the cartoon.

Plus the key words are those after Xanatos's name.

Exactly what they all said. You don't need to be a fan of the source material of a trope namer, to understand the basic context of a trope. Never seen or heard of In The Heat Of The Night...but I understood practically instantly what the trope They Call Me MISTER Tibbs! was. Never seen Spartacus....never even HEARD OF IT until I visited TV Tropes, but I instantly got what I Am Spartacus was about. Never watched Star Trek, but I caught on quickly what Beam Me Up, Scotty! was about.

Xanatos being there is irrelevant...all that's important is the other words "Planned This Index" Xanatos just has a cool name, and makes it catchier.

In short, he's an annoying artifact of the community's early days, but Xanatos is here to stay.

edited 17th Mar '11 5:14:17 AM by Catalogue

So, anybody else still wants a rename?

I'm against a rename, for the sake of the numbers it brings in.