Headscratchers / Fire Emblem Fates

Headscratchers for Fire Emblem Fates.

• How old are Selena, Laslow, and Odin? They appear to be late teenagers at most but apparently Selena has watched over Corrin since they were young (meaning ever since Corrin was brought into the Nohrian royal family).
  • "Young" is kind of vague and gives the statement a little wiggle room. It could've just been a few years, and Selena just meant "younger" generally. Also note that it's implied they came to Nohr at least somewhat recently in various supports, yet Anankos says that the dragon blood he gives them in Hidden Truths will only last a few years at most, so I'd say that they're probably in the late teens (or maybe early 20s) range.
  • The dragon blood probably made them stop aging the entire time until it wore off. Corrin is presumed to have been kidnapped at 5-6, and was already in Nohr by the time Hidden Truths takes place. So the Awakening trio have probably been in Nohr for 7-8 years, they were early teens in Awakening so they should biologically be late teens here, but mentally early 20s.
  • Ah, I just replayed Chapter 10 and noticed something: Selena doesn't actually say anything that implies how long she and Beruka have been watching Corrin. It might be that way in the original Japanese script, but at least in the English version there's nothing that would call the Awakening Trio's ages into question.
  • Odin addresses the Avatar as "young Corrin" at one point, indicating that he at least may be older than them (which would put him somewhere in his twenties). Then again, this may just be Odin doing his usual.
    • Considering they were (probably) in their mid-teens or so in Awakening, the trio being in their early 20's is at least plausible. Though it's still unclear how old Corrin is supposed to be, so... exactly how much older Odin is than they are is up to your interpretation of the series' Vague Age, I guess.
    • Corrin's stated in the Japanese version to have "just come of age" at the start of the game, so they'd probably be either 20 or 21 (depending on whether we're going by Japanese or European tradition).
• Conquest Chapter 18 makes no sense. It simply makes zero sense that the soldiers fight you without even the slightest hint of hesitation. It might have made sense if it were Corrin alone ordering them to stand down, since he/she's suspected of being a traitor and frankly not that much of a big deal... but not only is the rest of the royal family with them, there's also Xander, the fucking crown prince, heir to the throne.
  • If not out of loyalty, sheer self-preservation should have made the soldiers highly uncomfortable with the situation. Whether they survive the fight or not, the soldiers would be in deep trouble; disobeying the crown prince is bad enough already, but raising your hand against him and other royal blood? Or possibly even killing him? Garon might not care, but the soldiers don't know this; so from their perspective, following Zola will only get them killed. Either they get run through by Xander and Corrin's army, or they get executed afterwards for committing high treason. All Xander needed to do was ask whether Zola carried a document with his father's orders. If yes, he could have asked Zola to show them to him, declare them a forgery and rip them to pieces. If the answer is no, he can declare Zola a traitor on the spot. Boom, problem solved. Zola doesn't appear to be the type to inspire great loyalty, and he is at best a minor noble, if not a commoner; if he's declared a rogue, there is simply no way in hell the soldiers would follow him over Xander, at least not while he has an army at his back.
    • This may actually make it all a little bit worse, considering it would have taken the game literally seconds to add in a few extra lines of dialogue explaining it this way, but: since Zola specialises in illusory magic, it's possible he cast a glamour over the entire field that caused the soldiers to see Xander and the others as a Hoshidan force trying to release the Hoshidan royals.
    • There is another possibility in that Xander could not allow any of the soldiers to survive. While he has noble reasons for rescuing his enemies (as the whole affair is essentially a major violation of guest rights, which a man like Xander would undoubtedly take very seriously), he knows Garon would not see it that way. It's been mentioned several times up to that point that the Nohrian siblings have to be very discrete in circumventing Garon's crueler demands.
• Why are there no generic Butlers?
  • Probably because despite the fact that Troubadour isn't sex-locked anymore, the generics are all female (and therefore more generic Maids than Butlers). It's like how the generic Sky Knights (and their promotions) are still all female.
• The Avatar supposedly grew up believing their Nohr siblings were their actual siblings, but a translated screenshot from the Nohr path has the male Avatar say he's loved them since he was "a child without memories". And Elise's profile says that she's close with the Avatar despite not being blood related. Wouldn't that imply that they're aware that they aren't blood related?
  • Could be that they know about being adopted but was kept in the dark about being a glorified hostage. In fact, feeling betrayed about having the truth hidden from them could be the motive invoked in the Hoshido path
  • This may just turn to Alternative Character Interpretation depending on which version you bought.
  • To be fair, both of those would be post-route-decision, so they'd at least know by the time those took place. It's easier to Hand Wave Elise's profile that way, admittedly, but you could argue that Corrin was also using that to justify the confessions.
• So regarding the children mechanic: Azura dies at the end of both Birthright and Conquest, so what happens to Shigure? Especially considering he's locked to her even if she doesn't get married. Is he actually born during the story's timeline during a timeskip a la Lucina in Awakening, or does he keep existing via that pocket dimension business?
  • He still exists, even if she dies. However, if you did not pair up Azura with anybody, he will not exist.
• Okay, so could somebody explain to me how the hell reincarnation in this game is supposed to work? Shara's supports with a female Avatar (where she mentions a future with "a planet shrouded in darkness" and "two dragons") imply that they will be reincarnated as Tharja and Robin, but Severa, Inigo and Owain have already been born and reached adulthood. Speaking of which, are they the children from the saved timeline or not? Their supports imply they have a home to go to, which means they aren't from a doomed timeline...but if they're from the saved timeline, then Robin and Tharja have already been born, meaning Shara and the Avatar haven't been reincarnated yet. But they talk about it like they will be! What gives?
  • The Awakening kids are heavily implied to be from a different Ylisse than any we've seen in Awakening (certain dialogue shows that this other Ylisse had both Chrom and Robin die in the fight against Grima, while still having saved the day), so there's a chance not all timelines flow at the same speed, or even concurrently of each other. As for Shara's vision, it seems more like she's talking of the events as if they already happened, implying that Shara herself is the reincarnation, rather than the ancestor. Or, maybe it's just a fun reference to compare Tharja's obsession with Robin to Shara's own with Corrin?
  • Simple: Shara isn't talking about Ylisse, she's talking about an untold era that will happen in the future. She and Corrin were Tharja and Robin before being reborn in their current lives and the implication is that they'll be reborn again in the one Shara foretold. Though what exactly those details mean is anyone's guess.
  • Fates probably happens in the distant past of Awakening, and the three kids traveled BACK in time. Far too back compared to their previous experiences. We may see more if we get Future Past esque DLC down the line...
  • Most of Odin's supports make it clear that this is an alternate world and not the same one as Awakening. That said, his dialogue with his daughter about a future does suggest that they also traveled back in time when coming to this world.
  • Why are we even taking her statement at face value? All we have to go on is her word, she could easily be lying, and there's no reason to believe reincarnation is a thing when we only have a couple statements from someone kinda crazy.
  • To be fair, reincarnation does explain the second-gen expies of Gaius and Cordelia...
• Okay, this is a minor one, but why does Garon give a different punishment to the avatar for crying depending on their gender (starvation for male, whipping for female)? Why does the boy get one punishment while the girl gets something else?
  • ...well, meta-wise, it'd be so the Avatar could have similar but not completely alike support convos with him. In-universe...well... Maybe it's a Nohrian thing to starve your sons and whip your daughters?
  • It could also be a sign of how tough Garon viewed them mentally and what he thought was the best way to break them. Taking food away from the Male Avatar to starve him into submission, while the female would require physical abuse instead.
    • I was thinking about this and I think it's because starving a female Avatar could have brought about fertility problems down the line - women who were anorexic as teenagers can sometimes become infertile, depending on how severe their illness was and how quickly they were able to recover. And one expectation of royalty is to produce heirs. So Garon opted to whip Female Avatar instead because it would have hurt but had no lasting impact to her health, whereas Male Avatar might have been easier to control whilst near-starving?
    • Alternatively, it was a difference in what prompted the punishment. Female Corrin may have been more actively defiant and hostile than Male Corrin, thus a physical punishment rather than a protracted one.
    • Female Corrin, defiant and hostile? Really?
  • Heirs of Fate reveals that every route is technically canon, as a different timeline in the same overall setting (earlier hinted by how Corrin's favorite food is different depending on which route you're on). By that same logic, Garon could have settled on different punishments in different timelines with differently gendered Corrins based on nothing more than whim.
• Where the heck are characters like Kanna coming from? Are they from the future? Were they sent away? Whats going on?
  • All the married women in the army got pregnant, apparently at the same time. Since they were in the middle of the war, the Avatar moved them to an alternate dimension where Year Inside, Hour Outside was in effect, so the women could give birth safely. They then left the kids there and went back to their dimension, occasionally dropping by to visit. When the kids were of age, the parents brought them out of the dimension to fight in the war with them—since a Year Inside, Hour Outside was in effect, the war was still going on and the children were almost as old as their parents (or older, in Elise and Sakura's cases). It's exactly as stupid and horrifying as it sounds.
    • So is there a timeskip or do we see this happen in the campaign itself?
    • No timeskip. When two characters get married, they get a little narrative segment about how they had a baby and ditched it in the alternate dimension. Then the kid's Paralogue gets unlocked and you can go pick them up.
• How come they made Mozume's paralogue be playable in the Conquest path? I feel like it doesn't make sense for her to be in that route. I know that Kaze (a Hoshidan) joined the Avatar in that route after clearing Chapter 11, because of him hearing how the Avatar was planning to end the Hoshido-Nohrian War, but I don't think Mozume being playable makes sense, even though her hometown was wiped out by Faceless.
  • Because the Conquest route characters tend to aid people or try to avoid conflict on that route unless forced into it. They come across a village where they need help and helped them. Just like they save the Hoshido siblings from being hostages because it was dishonorable or tried to talk the foxes out of fighting to the death. They even got pass the Wind Tribe and made the Ice Tribe settle down by fighting them in honorable combat and sparing those that they could. Generally if people die in droves in usually out of their hands when it happens.
  • But also, here's the thing. The Faceless are technically Nohrian units sent by Nohr to attack Hoshido when Mikoto had the barrier before she kicked the bucket. Wouldn't the Avatar's Nohrian army get into trouble by the worse Nohrians (i.e. Garon's walking talking corpse and Iago) for technical "friendly fire" by killing Faceless and helping a Hoshidan?
  • The Faceless are made by Nohr but they don't take credit for their assaults on villages or attacking Hoshido because they'd get flak as well since the Faceless attack Nohrians and Hoshidans alike. It's only when they are under the control of someone using magic that they can be counted as troops in Nohr's army. Only Leo and Iago have done that. Rhajat also does it in her paralogue in Birthright/Revelation but she's from Hoshido. So no they wouldn't.
• Corrin has been revealed to be a DLC fighter in Super Smash Bros. and will be getting their own amiibo. Fates has amiibo compatibility with FE amiibo where they summon the character to the game. What happens when you scan a Corrin amiibo into Fates?
  • Possibly just nothing, it doesn't have to be compatible like the other FE amiibo.
  • A paradox is created and Corrin discovers they are Anankos.
• I've yet to fully see the game myself, but so far I've noticed very specific wording about something. The curse of the Invisible Kingdom will claim anyone who 'speaks' or 'talks' of the kingdom while outside it. Why not try writing information about it down and sending it in a letter? Neither Ryoma or Xander seem like they would just ignore mail from Corrin.
  • They're probably assuming that any mention of Valla will trigger the curse and choosing to err on the side of caution. Azura tells Corrin that her mother died trying to warn people about Valla, and while it's not stated whether she was using an indirect method, it's likely she was, since she also knew about the curse. With that knowledge in mind, it makes sense they'd be wary about the subject.
    • IIRC it's implied that Arete invoked the curse on purpose when she was spreading the word about Valla, although it's a tad unclear. Considering how specifically the curse is worded, though, I'd assume that writing is okay, but Corrin/Azura wouldn't want to risk their siblings reading the note aloud to the others, or something like that, so it'd still be safer to just do it when everyone's together and down there.
  • The above is very likely the case, as in one of the Avatar and Azura's Revelation supports, they are extremely careful with their words while discussing Valla, and they still come dangerously close to triggering the curse; the only reason it didn't trigger fully was because Azura teleported them to a pocket dimension at the very last second.
• If Mikoto is actually from Valla and not from Hoshido, then why does she have a Japanese name and look and act like a Yamato Nadeshiko?
  • Maybe she changed her name to hide from the Vallite soldiers? As for her personality, she could have just adopted it as she settled into her new home.
  • I think Mikoto always had some Yamato Nadeshiko tendencies before becoming Hoshido's queen. She came from the family who were meant to use the song to calm Anankos. I would think that would have given their family some form of power. And her older sister was the wife to Valla's king.
  • Fridge Brilliance: Note the Vallite generics are from BOTH Nohr and Hoshido. She could have been of Hoshidan descent and went to Valla.
    • So... Mikoto (and possibly Arete?) would be of Vallite + Hoshidan descent? One or both of them being of mixed descent would solve a lot of confusion on the matter, though it does go into WMG territory a bit.
    • Let's be frank. A LOT of fill in the blanks come from WMG thanks to the inconsistencies between the three routes.
• Why on earth did Sumeragi bring the infant Avatar with him to Cheve? He's going to a supposed peace conference deep within enemy territory, with no visible guards, and he brings his infant child with him? What's the reasoning for that?
  • Kaze mentions he was there, and I think Ryoma was, too? It's quite possible that all or most of Hoshidan royal family was there, and they at least brought a few retainers along (even if Kaze would've been fairly young at the time, too...). That, or since it was supposed to be a peace conference Sumeragi let his guard down and thought it would be okay to bring his kid/s along.
  • As for why Sumeragi would bring and infant Avatar with him, the answer is simple: They weren't an infant during that time. Sakura said in her A-support with the Avatar that she heard a rumor that she was the intended target, but later found out that wasn't true, meaning she was already born when they went to Cheve. The Avatar's the middle child, so if Sakura was already born the Avatar couldn't have been an infant during their kidnapping.
  • They definitely weren't an infant. Hinoka's supports with Camilla have her saying she started training with the naginata at 7. She started training to rescue the Avatar, so she was 7 when they were kidnapped, and they thus couldn't have been any older than that. But when they visit their old room with Mikoto, she shows them a drawing they did, and mentions what a cheerful child they were. So they were past the toddler stage, to be able to walk, talk and draw pictures. They were likely around 5 or 6.
  • As for why Sumeragi brought them, it's also possible that he only brought his older children, considering them to be of the age where they needed to learn how to rule, starting with diplomacy talks.
  • It's also worth noting that at that time, Hoshido and Nohr were not enemies. Sumeragi wasn't bringing his young son into hostile territory, but bringing him to introduce his children to a friend and ally.
• Sorry if I'm being an idiot and missed something but the details are really murky to me. I'm not completely understanding how the Hoshido royal family works. Ryoma and Hinoka are older than Corrin while Takumi and Sakura are younger. Mikoto is Corrin's mother while human!Anankos is Corrin's father. Sumeragi found Mikoto and Corrin on the shores of a lake as an infant. So...when were Takumi and Sakura born? Is their mother the same one as Ryoma and Hinoka's or...? Again, sorry if I've missed something in the supports. I have yet to really see any of them but I've played through all three paths from beginning to end, but I just can't make any sense of this.
  • It's kinda hard to pin down when Takumi and Sakura were born since most of the characters' ages are never stated, but yes, Ryoma, Hinoka, Takumi and Sakura are all Queen Ikona's children. Unlike with Garon, who didn't sever ties with a woman once he fell in love with her and had multiple concubines as a result, Sumeragi is never said to have any wives other than Ikona and Mikoto.
  • They were born after he found Mikoto and Corrin, as the game states they all shared the same mother. They're younger than Corrin, so their mother, Queen Ikona, had to still be alive. Unfortunately, this means Sumeragi was a cheater.
  • Not a cheater actually. He brought Mikoto and Corrin into his family, and married her after Ikona's death, or when Ikona was still alive as a concubine. Please note: Hoshido is very much based on Feudal Japan, and maaaaaaany shoguns/emperors did exactly that.
  • Alternately, going off the above, Sumeragi was just smart enough to only have one concubine, instead of having as many as Garon did. Either way, the fact that Sumeragi had more than one wife highlights the Foil nature of the Nohr and Hoshido families, so it makes sense on a meta level, at least.
  • Additionally, backstory in the Japanese version of Revelation revealed that Sumeragi was not so different from the real Garon in general. Fuga mentions that Sumeragi hung out in the Hoshidan Red Light Districts as a prince and is strongly implied to have been together with Mikoto while his official wife, Queen Ikona, was still alive, but was savvy enough to not have other lovers aside from those two (and siring children only with Ikona, plus adopting Mikoto's child); Garon opted to Marry Them All and keep all of his many concubines around, and the horrible consequences deeply affected the Nohrian Decadent Court. So yeah, either way, Sumeragi was also as bad as Garon when it came to being amorous, he just did it smarter.
  • Uh, I wouldn't say he was as bad as Garon, Sumeragi only had two known wives and lovers while Garon had two wives, at least three other lovers, and is implied to have had others. Sure Sumeragi may have had multiple flings in his youth, but that's to be expected, people tend to do stupid things in their youth. And the fact that he never sired any children with Mikoto might suggest that they never actually had sex. At least not until they were properly married. While Garon had multiple lovers, and since the whole Decadent Court sorted itself out by the time Elise was born Garon was most likely STILL doing the nasty while his lovers and children were murdering each other.
• Why didn't Azura bring Gunter out of the Invisible Kingdom sooner? She knew he was there, since she'd visited him several times, but she never took him out until Corrin was there with her, despite having the ability to leave.
  • Well, as for why she didn't bring him out while she was still in Hoshido, it would have made them both look really bad. After Corrin chooses Nohr, the Hoshidans started turning on her for her Nohrian origins. If she just randomly brought a well-respected knight of Nohr into Hoshido, that would have made Azura look like she was sneaking Nohr soldiers in and probably would have gotten Gunter arrested and/or killed. Not helped by the fact that Azura wouldn't be able to explain what she was really doing. Once she was out of Hoshido, there went her usual portal to Valla. After that, Azura simply had to find another way there, which most likely isn't as easy as it sounds, especially with all the traveling around she was doing with Corrin. So even if she knew another way in, the problem would have been getting to one of the portals without raising too many questions she couldn't answer.
  • Additionally, she states that the regular way back, the one through the Bottomless Canyon, was swarmed by soldiers that she couldn't have fought off alone, and that she tried to bring him out through the lake but couldn't for some reason (which likely has something to do with her and Corrin being Vallite, as the Vallite soldiers encountered in the game are shown to be able to travel through water). So she literally didn't have an opportunity to bring him back sooner.
    • But why didn't she bring him out during the events of Birthright?
    • She simply might not have had enough time to go get him, especially later on in the campaign. It's somewhat of a coincidence that she brings him out when she does in Conquest (or at least that Corrin sees her doing such, anyway), after all. Plus, since Azura's with Corrin for longer in Birthright, she might not have had enough time to find Gunter in the first place like she did on Conquest.
    • Also when she meets Corrin again on Conquest she explains she's gotten a bit of hate from the Hoshidans for her Nohrian roots, which led to them meeting on the battlefield. Additionally, Azura explained she went to Valla to get away from it all for a bit. Azura never received the same backlash in Birthright because Corrin chose Hoshido, so she had no reason to visit Valla for this reason, therefore she probably never met Gunter in Birthright.
    • Admittedly this is really grasping at straws, but it's also possible she sent Leo to fetch him on that route, instead of getting him out herself. It's never definitively stated what Leo sees in the crystal she gives him, only that when you see him again he apparently knows that Garon was Dead All Along, and that he took a trip to the Bottomless Canyon at some point during that time. So it is possible that the crystal told him about Valla and Anankos, he went down there himself to make sure he wasn't being tricked or lied to in some way, and he found Gunter there (which would also explain why Gunter's not present in the Avatar's near-death vision).
• Was there really a point in implying, if not outright confirming, that someone in Nohr did seal away Corrin’s memories of Hoshido? They couldn’t have been older than five or six, so their memory was going to be fuzzy anyway, AND they witnessed their father’s murder, it would have made sense that they repressed their own memory. Outside of introducing the function of Hoshido’s throne for Conquest was there really a point to it? The most I can figure is to keep them quite, but it would have been a perfect excuse for Garon to inflict punishment on them.
  • It was probably just as you said, for the sake of keeping them quiet. If Corrin knew all along that they weren't actually a part of Nohr's royal family, there's a chance that they would have tried to escape, or at least be more rebellious. If Corrin thinks that they're supposed to be there, then it makes it easier for Slime Garon to do what Anankos wants.
• If Kaze dies in Birthright, does he appear in the Avatar's near death experience in the endgame?
  • He doesn't. The reason why might have something to do with the fact that his death is optional, unlike most of the others in the game.
    • What a drag. That would have been a little interesting, but it would make a bit of sense - in the Near Death experience, the Avatar basically sees their adoptive siblings, their actual sibling in Lilith, and Flora. Flora seems like the odd one out, but given that the Avatar's known her for years (Whereas they don't remember anything about Kaze from when they were younger) and sees Flora as somewhat of a sibling - but never did because Flora was always a maid and thus in a different class than the others. Who's to say Jakob and Felicia wouldn't be there if it were them instead? They seem to recover a bit quickly from Kaze, but not from Flora.
  • Going off the above point, the meta condition for Kaze's survival is Corrin having an A-Rank Support with him. From an in-universe point of view, that could mean that they didn't really have that close of a bond with him, as opposed to the other characters who show up in that scene. It would be interesting if Kaze had some dialogue in that scene, but it does kinda make sense from Corrin's point of view.
• Considering the fact that Anankos takes a massive amount of power to possess someone, is it possible that he still dies at the end of both Birthright and Conquest through being killed in the vessels of Garon and Takumi respectively?
  • I'm not sure if it would kill him, exactly, but it would likely at least weaken him a lot. At the very least, it would probably take Anankos a long time before he'd be able to try that again.
• I get the meta reason for keeping the siblings apart (Since Azura and Corrin can marry anybody basically any kid could be Shigure or Kana's sibling), but what the hell is the in-universe justification for it?
  • Only thing I can think of is that maybe the parents thought it would be safer to split them up, since if the invaders came after them (like they do in several of the paralogues), then they wouldn't be able to get both at once. As far as I know, there's no official reason given in-game, though.
  • Forrest's paralogue has Elise make a throwaway comment that indicates Forrest is an only child at that point. So if Leo married Corrin or Azura, they didn't have Kana or Shigure until after recruiting Forrest. So yeah, that's probably the case with their other potential siblings too (although in Shigure's case, it seems to usually be the other way around, with his sibling being born after you've recruited him).
• What happens to the Fuujin Yumi, Rajinto in Conquest or Siegfried in Birthright now that their wielder is dead? Since it's never mentioned in either route.
  • They probably were just returned to the original nation, Hoshido/Nohr, and locked up until someone else able to use them comes along.
  • Also, note that the princes all inherit their dads' weapons in the Heirs of Fate DLC. It's not too unreasonable to assume from there that other members of the royal families could learn how to use them with enough practice.
• If the Avatar marries Selena, Odin, or Laslow in Revelation their epilogue mentions them disappearing for a bit, then returning afterwards. It's generally accepted that they returned to Ylisse to say good-bye since the Avatar couldn't go with them as the new ruler of Valla. However, in the Hidden Truths DLC, Anankos said the crystal he gave them to transport them back could only work once. How are they returning to the Fates universe?
  • Heirs of Fate reveals that Odin and Laslow apparently broke the crystal and gave half to each of their daughters. While the whole thing was necessary for transporting everyone, maybe half of it would be strong enough to transport one person, while the other half could take them back?
  • Did they? I'm pretty sure the crystals were whole each. Considering children were from twenty different worlds, it seems more likely Odin and Laslow just happened to give them the stone in their world and just happened to end up in the situation they did. They were a pretty large group, and Anankos did say it was impressive that that many kids in Awakening were able to travel back in time.
• Is it just me or on the Revelation route is there a degree of availability? Throughout the early part of Revelation, Corrin is branded a traitor and due to the taboo on talking about Valla outside it, when it comes to explaining things, nobody is particularly inclined to listen to "hang on, the real enemy is in the shadows! But that's all I can say..." The problem is, nobody specifies they can't say more due to a curse. In Hidden Truths, Human!Anankos does exactly that and it worked out pretty well for him! Now, granted that chances are people wouldn't listen anyway, but still, it's weird that nobody even broaches the idea.
  • ...That's a very good point, and it gets even weirder when you consider that Garon is capable of name-dropping Anankos at a couple of points. You'd think that Azura would at least be able to say, "Hey, someone named Anankos is who we should be fighting!", on top of what you mentioned, but neither issue ever comes up in-story during Revelation.
    • Except, according to Garon at least, Anankos was seen as the Dusk Dragon, Nohr's dragon-god. If Corrin and Azura flat out said he was behind everything that would have raised more questions than answers, questions that couldn't be answered without triggering it.
    • Did Garon ever say that? Azura and Xander have a conversation in Revelation shortly after the party enters Valla that confirms Anankos isn't the Dusk Dragon. It might require some more explanation, but not for that reason.
  • I'm inclined to believe that if they even said, "I can't say anything because of a curse." Whoever is there would follow up with "What curse?" Followed immediately with "I can't say." They're just as stuck whether they bring it up or not, except they're really not helping their case when someone thinks they're mad. When Anankos mentioned it, he already showed off that he was a powerful being and that there was something going on where he was from. The situations between father and child were different, so they could share things differently.
• What's the deal with Midori and Kana as siblings? She clearly states she's older than him, but then why couldn't she be recruited until after Chapter 15?
  • ...Gameplay and Story Segregation? Or maybe, since she was probably born of Glad-to-Be-Alive Sex, time moved faster in her Deeprealm than his, so she ended up older despite being born later.
  • Considering that Corrin marrying Kaze would obviously fulfill the "needs an A-Support to survive" requirement, I'm inclined to go with the Gameplay and Story Segregation guess. Especially since it's illogical in general that Midori wouldn't have been born by that point, anyway.
• At the end of Revelation, Corrin becomes Valla's new ruler. Who exactly is there to rule? The Hidden Truths DLC reveals that everyone in Valla is a zombie puppet of Anankos. There shouldn't be anyone left.
  • Isn't Corrin given new land, anyway? I wouldn't be surprised if the "new" Valla was inhabited by the people who were already living in the areas that Xander and Ryoma donated. That or people just moved there later.
• Why didn't Garon take on his Blight Dragon form at the end of Conquest?
  • The Hoshidan throne weakened his ability to hold his form, he was probably using most of his power just to keep from melting into a puddle.
  • It's also possible that the power he used in Birthright went into Takumi in Conquest.
• Considering that a big deal is made of getting to the Bottomless Canyon before the skies change in Revelation, how is it that everyone was able to get back out at the end? Unless maybe I missed something, and that's just supposed to apply to getting into Valla and not out of it... Also, on a related note, it makes me wonder if the water portals would be sealed off as well, or just the Bottomless Canyon entrance. If not, that adds a bit of Fridge Horror to Revelation's otherwise happy ending, since if there were any Vallite soldiers left, they'd still be able to get out.
  • It probably is just the canyon entrance: the skies are stated to change every few decades, and Mikoto and Arete left Valla with their children recently enough that Azura remembers it. As to the Vallite soldiers, they are explicitly stated to be dead bodies under Anankos' control, so if there were any left they'd all just drop when he's defeated.
    • Ah, that's a good point; you're probably right about the Vallite soldiers dying off with Anankos. It still makes me wonder if Corrin and Azura would still be able to use the water portals, though, since I don't think anything about those was stated in-game.
• Why is an assassin like Beruka a Wyvern Rider? Is her preferred method of assassination dive-bombing her targets?
  • Considering her default reclass option is Fighter, I'm inclined to think that she "started out" on foot and just axed people, and only got her wyvern after becoming Camilla's retainer. It's a bit WMGish, but, either way, it's possible that she mainly uses her wyvern for transport or just doesn't always bring it with her.
• Is pregnancy not a thing in the world of Fates? As soon as two characters get married their child (or children in Azura and Female Corrin's cases) becomes available right away.
  • Pregnancy is a thing in the Fates world, it's just that the game is not specific on how much time passes between the S supports and the kids being born. The Deeprealms are an...odd way of explaining the kids, but I think it's best to not think too hard about how it works.
  • Possibly, the women go into the Deeprealms when they find out they're pregnant, and then stay there until they baby is born. That would definitely explain why the pregnancies don't interrupt the game, or how Azura and female Corrin can have two kids without that much time passing in the "real" world. It's a bit of a stretch, but considering that it's the only way for a Scarlet Kana to realistically exist in Revelation, I'm inclined to just go with that for everyone else, too.
• Conquest Chapter 9: Why is Azura kidnapped by the Hoshidan troops and kept in Fort Dragonfall, a Nohrian territory?
  • IIRC, Fort Dragonfall had been captured by the Hoshidans as well, so she was likely only being kept there temporarily until she could be brought somewhere more secure.
• Why doesn't Azura have any retainers? Everyone else in the Hoshidan royal family does. Ryoma clearly has no problem calling her his sister, so this leads to some serious Fridge Horror about how Sumeragi and Mikoto saw Azura. Not to mention, Kaze's A support with the Avatar has him stating he got left out when all of the royal children got retainers. Kaze probably should've become Azura's retainer even if Mikoto hoped the Avatar returned someday. This might just be a HUGE oversight by the writers but it's very worrying.
  • It's most likely just writer oversight, or... possibly Azura was just pickier with the whole retainer process? I don't think any of her supports have her making any comments on it, and she spent most of her life in the castle, anyway, so it's possible that she just didn't want any (for an in-universe explanation, at least).
  • Small correction. Sumeragi never meet Azura while she was living in Hoshido since, you know, he was killed before she was kidnapped.
  • Kaze was anxious about not having a master, but it's also implied that after his failure (in his mind) to prevent the Avatar's kidnapping, he felt unworthy of being a retainer to anyone (he actually admits it outright in Heroes). He obviously likes Azura a lot and is just as dedicated to her if their supports are anything to go by, but he's got some hang-ups to get over.
  • It's not necessarily that Azura didn't have any retainers, just not any of note. The retainers of the Hoshidans are largely nobles from samurai houses who are trained to fight on their lord's behalf. Azura is meant to be a political hostage. She may have servants to take care of her, but she wouldn't be given trained Hoshidan warriors to do her bidding.
• Ryoma should totally be king of Hoshido since his father has been dead for awhile. Now, there's some leeway in the beginning that since Mikoto is queen, she could probably just rule on her own. Then, that becomes a moot point once she dies. Even without some formal crowning ceremony, Ryoma should be considered king by that point, same for Hinoka as queen very early in the game... It's understandable that Princesses Rule, but it seems very inappropriate to keep calling Ryoma a prince when both the king and queen are dead.
  • As you said, there was never an official ceremony. Hoshido seems like a land that respects tradition, so it's likely they didn't want to call Ryoma king until he could officially be made so.
  • Yeah, considering the new rulers of each country weren't crowned until the end of the game in each route, that seems to confirm the "they just didn't have time for a proper ceremony" idea. Also, it's possible that Ryoma himself wouldn't feel comfortable calling himself king until then, too, since he respects Mikoto a lot.
  • Also, keep in mind Ryoma completely disappeared after the routes diverge in Birthright and Revelation. He likely didn’t give anyone the chance to talk to him about what was going to happen. One does wonder about Conquest though…
• How did the Avatar never meet any of the Nohrian siblings' retainers? Story wise, I get that it was for there to be an excuse for them to introduce themselves to the players, but in-universe there is no reason they shouldn't have met. The siblings supposedly frequently made trips to visit the Avatar, and the retainers' jobs are to keep their lords safe. Even if the northern fortress is Nohrian territory, the threat of assassins and bandits should have necessitated that they keep their retainers with them when they travel. It just strikes me as odd that none of the retainers ever came with their lords on their visits, Especially Selena, Laslow, and Odin since they were not only serving their lords but also trying to help the Avatar defeat Anankos, so surely they would have wanted to meet the person they had to help.
  • They were likely there, as in on the grounds, but out of sight. Given some of the retainers have personalities and quirks that aren’t quite suitable for a family visit (Niles, Peri, Laslow and MAYBE Odin and Beruka come to mind).
  • Odin and Laslow? I can see why the others mentioned don't get to visit the Avatar though.
  • It's kinda implied that Selena, Laslow, and Odin didn't know that Corrin was Anankos's kid, at least at first, though. So that could possibly explain why those three never got close to them until later, at least. I'm also inclined to agree with the "they were there, but out of sight" idea in general, though.
• Chapter 4: Why couldn't Hinoka just let Sakura ride her pegasus and both of them escape from the mountains when the latter is injured?
  • Aside from the usual Gameplay and Story Segregation I’d likely say it was her pride. Unable to save one sibling, goshdarn, she’s going to save another even if there’s an easier way!
  • Also, there were a lot of Faceless on that map, so even from a gameplay perspective it kinda makes sense. Hinoka would probably get surrounded quickly if she tried to go anywhere, so combine that with her stubbornness and she probably just assumed it'd be better to take them on 1-2 at a time.
  • Not to mention that the whole reason they're there is to defend the settlements in the mountains from the Faceless. If Hinoka left without putting them all to rout, that would essentially mean just letting innocent civilians die.
• Is it ever definitively stated what Shura's talking about in chapter 22 with regards to Azura? Most people take it take it to mean that he was the one who abducted her, but that would make it pretty weird that it's never brought up again (and that he doesn't show any particular remorse for abducting a child and turning her over to the country her current homeland was at war with, without knowing for sure that she would be safe there). So... yeah, was it stated somewhere else, or is that just the fanon interpretation of it?
  • If we’re not counting the Female Avatar there is only one other ‘she’ featured in the scene in question. Azura. And Shura only thinks about her when she leaves the scene. And finally, it’s explicitly stated in Conquest. The game as a whole is not a stranger to introducing concepts then discarding them. It ain’t that unusual.
  • Yeah, it's not only said in Conquest, but Shura himself is the one who says so. There's not really much room for doubt with that in mind. As for whether or not he regrets it, it could be partly due to his limited supports, so he just doesn't get much time to discuss it.
  • Shura regrets his actions and uses his guilt as a guarantee to ensure that he will protect Azura from now on (aside from not "being fond of the Hoshians" for this very same reason, plus the rejection he suffered as a political refugee as a kid) in Conquest when he plead for his life.
• So we know all the routes the Avatar's party can take to get to the Cyrkensia opera house, but how does Garon get there? The only route there from the capital cuts through the Woods of the Forlorn, and it's more than a day's journey so he probably wouldn't want to go by wyvern either (unless he was staying for more than one day, in which case how would he transport his luggage?). The only other thing I can think of is that he might use a warp book, but that raises even more questions as to how common they are, whether Leo's comment about the size of your party indicates they have finite uses or just that there's a limit to how many people they can transport at one time, et cetera et cetera.
  • Gameplay and Story Segregation. It's highly unlikely that the routes featured in-game are the only way to get from point A to point B in-universe. You’ll find Google Maps can give three different routs to the same destination, if not more. Likely the same applies here.
    • Sorry, I didn't word this very clearly: what I meant is that, if you look at the map of the world [1]◊, the Woods of the Forlorn form a belt that stretches across the entire country. Literally the only possible route that doesn't involve cutting through the woods involves skirting around what looks to be a toxic swamp or lake of some kind (or, likelier still, the source of the Demon's Falls). So the only ways he could go are through the Woods of the Forlorn (which would be dangerous), going around that lake (which would double the journey time and involve briefly going outside Nohr's borders), or by warping. Garon's not a mage, so unless he makes Iago cast the warp spell for him (which would be a lot of trust to place in Iago), that's an awful lot of hassle just for one trip to the theatre.
  • Three possibilities here. 1) He does go by wyvern, which, sure, might not sound like the most comfortable trip, but is probably the simplest one. 2) There are more warp books than that. It sounded more to me like it was the size of the party that was the problem, rather than the distance, and there being multiple warp books would actually make Leo's make more sense (if they're at least somewhat common in-universe, it'd feel like less of an Ass Pull). Or 3) Iago does take care of it for him. Petty and power-hungry he may be, but Iago does seem to be fairly loyal to Garon. Even so, warping Garon in a way that would injure him or cause him to go missing would be pretty stupid, even for Iago. Besides, comments in-universe make it sound like Garon's a regular at the theater, so I'm sure he's figured out some way that he's comfortable with by now.
  • It's also possible that the Woods of the Forlorn are only one specific area in that heavily wooded stretch. Additionally, if it really does make up that entire area, there are probably at least a handful of defended routes to take (Imagine the logistical nightmare if your country was almost completely divided by a forest). And even if none of those are the case, Garon's the king. He can send soldiers to secure his passage for him.
• Where the hell is the pool where Corrin met Azura? It's visited twice, once in the pre-split prologue and once in chapter 8 of Revelation. In the prologue it's all but explicitly stated to be part of the castle grounds, but Chapter 8 of Revelation implies it's in casual walking distance of Fort Jinya. Either one of these answers makes the other instance of getting there absurd. Either Corrin casually wandered halfway across the country to Fort Jinya unattended while extremely confused and in a never-before-visited foreign land they barely understand, or they walked with Sakura from Fort Jinya all the way to Castle Shirasagi, through a nation where Corrin is currently considered a traitor, for no other reason than to have a conversation with Sakura by the pool. In fact the distance between these places on the map is so vast that any attempt to compromise between these locations would make both situations comically absurd. What the hell is going on here?
  • It’s not supposed to be the same lake. But it’s possibly the same stage.
  • Corrin explicitly says that the lake is where they first met Azura.
  • Maybe the castle grounds and/or Fort Jinya extend further then they're presented to be? That would make it at least somewhat possible that it's further from the castle or closer to Fort Jinya than it seems like... Going from Fort Jinya to Castle Shirasagi could at least be Hand Waved by the fact that Corrin is with Sakura, who a) knows where she's going, and b) is a princess of that very kingdom. ...That or the map is just flat-out wrong. Take your pick, I guess.
• What land do Ryoma and Xander even donate to Corrin for the New Valla at the end of Revelation, anyway? If you look at the map◊, the Bottomless Canyon runs almost all the way over it. There shouldn't be anything there to give that's not split down the middle by the giant creepy canyon, unless we're supposed to believe that New Valla is split up into different parts of the map... or something... Gah, this makes even less sense the more I try to reason it out.
  • That's not the full map. The version of it linked to in the above thread about routes from Windmire to Cyrkensia show a vast swathe of land above where the canyon ends on both sides. The Japanese version also states that Ryouma and Xander donate land from the northern regions of their countries, so it's pretty likely that that's the reason Intsys bothered to include such a large area of seemingly-nondescript land in the map
• In all three routes, we learn that six people have managed to reach the Rainbow Sage - Sumeragi, Garon, the mysterious third person, Xander, Ryoma, and Corrin. Who was the third person?
  • As far as I know, it's never answered. None of the three routes nor any of the DLC gives away the third person's name or origins. Unless there's some Word of God on it, we're probably never going to know.
• In Chapter 3, what's stopping Corrin and co. from simply abandoning Hans to deal with the fight he provoked against orders and retreat back to Windmire? Corrin did exactly what Garon asked by scouting out the fort, it's not their fault Hans attacked, and there shouldn't be any Hoshidans able to outflank them and force them to fight (or at most those three crummy pegasus knights that spawn when you approach Omozu).
  • Well, they are outnumbered in that fight. Presumably, Corrin's worried about the Hoshidans catching up to them if they try to run, and Hans can only distract them for so long.
• Flora and Felicia's relationship with their father confuses me. So it's stated in their backstory that Kilma preferred Felicia over Flora because of her supposed superior ability to handle weapons (despite the fact Flora's a miles better unit in-game than Felicia is), but Flora was still expected to take on the responsibilities of the Ice Tribe and become their next leader. Huh? If the Ice Tribe value strength so much and Felicia was considered "stronger" of the two, why didn't Kilma just make Felicia his heir instead? I guess Felicia's clumsiness and being not all that smart could have been a factor, but it still seems weird to favour one child so much over the other yet still expect The Un-Favourite to succeed you.
  • It's possible this was just the two sisters misinterpreting their relationship with him. It may be what seemed like favoritism was actually Kilma being harder on Flora because she was slated to replace him, thus he had to be sure she would be strong enough.
  • Because Flora was born first, therefor she is the heir apparent and Felicia is the heir presumptive. Even if Kilma had some parental favoritism, it would be considered particularly harsh for him to disinherit his firstborn.

• Sumeragi had Raijinto on him when he died, surrounded by enemy troops, in the middle of Cheve, right? So... how'd it get back to Hoshido so Ryoma could have it?
  • Maybe the spies who kidnapped Azura also managed to reclaim Raijinto while they were there.
• In Corrin and Hinoka’s B-support, Hinoka specifically refers to Mikoto as “[Corrin’s] mother”, and Corrin notes that Mikoto and Hinoka aren’t related. But that detail is only revealed when Corrin S-supports a Hoshidan royal, yet here, they talk about it, even if the reveal hasn’t happened, and may never even happen depending on circumstances.
  • The twist isn't that Mikoto isn't Hinoka's mother, but that Sumeragi isn't Corrin's father. All of the Hoshido children are born to a concubine that apparently he kept impregnating even after marrying Mikoto while never giving Mikoto any biological children together. Yes, I realize this raises even more questions and problems, but Mikoto not being Hinoka's mom isn't an early reveal of the twist. The assumption was always that they were half-siblings.
    • Minor correction but MIKOTO is techincally speaking the concubine. Sumeragi was formally married to a woman named Ikona who is the mother of the Hoshido siblings before Mikoto officially joined the household.
• In Revelation, how exactly does Corrin know about Valla in his A support with Azura, if the two can grind supports on other maps (such as DLC), before even playing Chapter 7?
  • Almost certainly a result of the developers not accounting for the possibility. Grinding a support to A before what is effectively the route’s second chapter is a very unorthodox thing to do, so they probably didn’t feel like changing the support for a situation that almost nobody would get into.
• Does the curse of Valla also effect writing? If not then that would've prevented a whole lot of mistrust if everyone could've just been told about it all in a letter or something.
  • I'm pretty sure that they didn't want to risk their lives if even writing the word Valla would be enough to trigger the curse. The real question is this: Why did none of the characters at the very least mention the option?
• In Conquest, Corrin turns against Kotaro because he took Kagero prisoner, which is somehow bad. What exactly is evil about that? Kagero is an enemy soldier, meaning that she would have to be captured or killed at some point. If anything, Corrin should be grateful that she wouldn't have to be killed since they spent the entire route trying to spare as many enemies as possible.
  • Corrin turned on Kotaro for backstabbing Hoshido, which he considered dishonorable.
• It is 100% certain that getting pregnant, disappearing for nine months, then abandoning your baby to be raised in an alternate dimension in the middle of a bloody war is pretty traumatic for parent and child. Why does every couple get pregnant ASAP then? Has no one heard of condoms in this universe?
• How do marriages work in general in the Awakening and Fates cultures? One would think that, say, the crown prince of Nohr getting married and having a baby would be a big deal, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of fanfare surrounding weddings and the births of children. Is it something that the families are deliberately keeping under wraps, perhaps?
  • Considering that a war is going on, it’s pretty likely that the weddings and children are kept under wraps. Considering that the game’s marriages are out of love, an assassination would be perfect for reducing the spouse’s morale. This is likely the same reason the births are kept low profile as well, especially since children would be more vulnerable targets. Even with the pocket dimensions in mind, it’s likely that the parents want their children to be as safe as possible, so it’s best to avoid taking chances.

• The fact that the Avatar and Azura didn't overreact when Mikoto revealed that they are actually cousins can be strange, but it might make sense if Mikoto and Arete are actually best friends instead of being sisters. Sometimes, best friends can refer to each other as their own family, to the point of being assumed as Heterosexual Life-Partners.]]
  • Or (more likely) it's not that big of a deal to them. Even if they were married at that point, Kissing Cousins was quite common in their time period. It's also seen as acceptable in Japan, which is the East Asian country with less restrictions for cousin marriage and even has an ex Prime Minister in such a situation.
  • Also there's the fact that it's the last time Mikoto is going to speak with Corrin and the others. If they were really just Heterosexual Life-Partners, she would have been way more specific and just say so. Considering she all but said 'Anankos is your father', I think she would have chosen her words more carefully than that.
• If Corrin reaches S-Support [with any of the Hoshido siblings, they find out through a letter (or just from Ryoma) that they are not blood related to any of them. However, this is the only time this knowledge comes to light. Regardless, they can also S-Support any of the sibling's children, which is potentially any of them, but Shiro and Kiragi are guaranteed. In order for the latter to be possible, they must never have gained knowledge from the former (in fact, such knowledge retroactively doesn't exist). Which means, as far as Corrin is concerned, they are willingly going after their blood related niece/nephew, even though in every Hoshido support, they take issue with marrying their sibling. And unlike with cousins, uncle/aunt and nephew/niece marriages aren't at all legal in Japan.
  • Actually, in the supports with Hinoka, she relates an incident to Corrin where she yelled at Mikoto for not being her "real" mother, and Corrin seems to be more surprised about the argument rather than the fact that this reveals that they're actually step-siblings. So them knowing might be canon, and, either way, it's still possible for them to find out. Still is a bit squicky if you don't get that conversation before then, though.
    • Corrin always knew that Mikoto wasn't the Hoshidan siblings' mother, but they did believe that they were Sumeragi's child with Mikoto, which would make them half-siblings.
  • Something interesting related to this is brought up if the Avatar S-supports Sakura. She outright mentions that they're (supposedly) half-siblings. Which while it brings up more awkward and confusing implications, it could explain why Corrin would not come to the conclusion that he and Hinoka weren't related at all when Hinoka reveals Mikoto is her stepmother.
• A little more on the lighthearted side: Corrin plays the piano, which contains both black and white keys.
• While closing off any child characters if their mother died in Awakening made sense (as they come from a Bad Future), it comes off as odd in Fates. Due to the method of how second generation characters exist compared to Awakening, exactly why would allowing their fathers to die result in them being unrecruitable, especially if their mothers are alive? This is quite apparent with Midori in Birthright, as it's fully possible for Kaze to be paired with someone, yet he must survive the events of Chapter 15 for Midori's paralogue to even unlock. Due to the Timey-Wimey Ball, this technically means that Kaze's death at that particular point wouldn't invalidate Midori's existence.
  • Actually, Midori in Birthright can easily be explained away if you simply assume that she actually wasn't born until after Chapter 15. The paralogue does immediately unlock afterwards, yes, but the same thing happens for all the other kids; the Narnia Time involved with the second gen this time around makes them really ambiguous, anyway. Going off that, it's possible that the couples simply never had the chance to have a kid if the fathers die (considering they're actually born during the game this time around). It's weird, yes, but it's more just a necessary Hand Wave for the fact that the kids are tied to the dads this time.
  • To be more specific, it's implied [Midori was the result of Glad-to-Be-Alive Sex.
    • Of course, on the flip side, this gets weird when Kaze is married to the Female Avatar, who can still recruit Kana before Midori's paralogue is unlocked despite Kana being stated and treated as being the youngest of all the children.
  • All of the children, though Midori in particular, simply work better if you assume the dads dying is a case of Gameplay and Story Segregation. They still could / should be born, but it goes back to the Hand Wave explanation to avoid support / paralogue inconsistencies. To be more specific, by all rights, Midori "should've" been born once Kaze hits S-Rank, especially if she's Kana's sister, but her paralogue simply unlocks then so they wouldn't have to add extra dialogue into chapter 15 if she's there and Kaze dies.
  • Here's one way of looking at it: say guys like Subaki, Silas and Kaze get hitched. Their children could very well be born or at the very least conceived even if they die, and the kids would be sent off to their respective Deeprealms. One reason why they don't become recruitable could probably be a very desperate case of Mama Bear: having already seen their husbands die, who's to say that the mothers of these kids would want to keep them inside the Deeprealms longer and not have them join the war lest they follow the same fate as their fathers? Of course, this will vary depending on how you look at the personalities of the female characters and if they'd actually do that, but it's a possibility nonetheless.