Headscratchers / Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

Headscratchers is for post-viewing discussion and is thus Spoilers Off. Beware of unmarked spoilers.

Stopping the Scarlet Witch

• Why didn't the Illuminati use tech similar to the magic-suppressing handcuffs to try and subdue Wanda? They could've very well had some prepared given the fact they previously dealt with a Darkhold-influenced Strange and have cells literally built for that very purpose.
  • They get arrogant, dismished Wanda as just a "little witch", and Mr. Fantastic even made the mistake to tell Wanda how Black Bolt's powers work.
  • To be fair, no one in the movie truly comprehends how powerful she is until it's demonstrated to them. To get cuffs on her would require them to get through her energy shields, and even Captain Marvel didn't even dent them. Even then, it's unlikely they would hold her for long.
  • Those cuffs are not explained enough for us to know if they would even work. Sure, they completely blocked Strange's and Mordo's powers, but they were made specifically to counter that type of magic, and the movie shows many times that different types of magic work on different rules and limitations. We even see the cuffs failing to contain America's powers, which are also treated as some form of magic.
  • Their Darkhold Strange chose to be killed by them. They've have to subdue Wanda first to get the cuffs on her. Which they clearly failed to do.
  • How could Wanda effortlessly kill Black Bolt and Reed Richards, but struggled for several minutes against Peggy Carter, someone with no meta abilities what so ever? Or kill someone as durable as Captain Marvel with something as simple as dropping a statue on her?
    • Captain Marvel was apparently depowered by Wanda right before the drop.
    • Peggy held out for the same reason that every version of Captain America has managed to hold a place in a world full of people with meta abilities: a combination of smart strategy, sheer determination, and a little bit of the writers making sure that a situation occurs that will let these traits shine.
  • In fairness, Black Bolt and Reed Richards made themselves exceptionally easy targets by standing relatively still the entire time. Captain Carter and Captain Marvel, on the other hand, put up a much better fight by constantly remaining mobile to keep Wanda on her toes.
  • Why were the Illuminati so dismissive of the threat posed by Wanda? Yes, it could be they were arrogant - but when Wong realized a battle with Scarlet Witch was imminent, he put all of Kamar-Taj on high alert, gravely acknowledging the likely outcome the entire time. And yet, the Illuminati fared no better. Could it be that Baron Mordo simply isn't as competent in his role as Sorcerer Supreme, and thus wasn't aware of the danger?
  • 838 Wanda has powers, she was likely an Avenger, and retired, so the Illuminati are familiar with her and her power level at more an Age of Ultron/Infinity War level and not the massive power boost via trauma or the Darkhold 616 Wanda's had since and underestimated her.
    • Something that most people seems to don't understand is that the Darkhold didn't give Wanda a power boost. It expanded her magical knowledge. The power boost is all hers.

The effects of the Darkhold

• In this film, the Darkhold is portrayed as so evil that it turned Wanda into a mass murderer and did the same to Strange's variant; even using it once is enough to make our Stephen grow a third eye. But in WandaVision, Agatha Harkness was using the Darkhold, was implied to have had it for centuries, yet she was sane and rational and didn't kill indiscriminately (didn't kill anyone in Westview except a dog who may not even have been totally real). While it's clear the movie didn't pay much attention to the show except in Broad Strokes, anyone watching both is bound to wonder if there's something specific about Wanda and Strange that make them especially easy to corrupt.
  • We haven't seen anything of Agatha's life between the time she killed her coven (in self defense) and when she popped up in Westview. It could be that the Darkhold did have that effect on her at one time and she eventually learned to control it.
  • Wanda and Strange aren't that out of character, Strange Supreme destroyed his universe without any help from the Darkhold. And it's not like Agatha isn't a tiny bit pointlessly evil, she gets a villain song where she boasts about murdering a puppy. There's also the fact that Agatha isn't really capable of that much evil without attracting more attention than she can handle, whereas Stephen and Wanda are universal threats.
  • Wanda was already one or two steps away from insanity. It wasn't going to be very hard for the Darkhold to corrupt her.
  • Strange and Wanda are also much more powerful than Agatha. The whole reason Agatha came to Westview was that Wanda had accidentally pulled off a feat of magic that was way beyond anything Agatha could have done after centuries of study. If Agatha was ever fully corrupted by the Darkhold, she might have gotten over it without having committed any large-scale crimes, because she doesn't have the power to commit them.
  • Agatha was simply weaker and probably lacked vision. The Darkhold was essentially made for Wanda. It's like the one ring. In Gollum's hands, it was an addictive trinket. If Gandalf had it, he'd be the next Sauron.
  • Why didn't the Darkhold corrupt Strange-616? Yeah, he possesses his own corpse and it looks spooky, but his moral outlook doesn't change at all. The best you can say is there's a brief window (maybe 30 seconds) where it seems like he might be willing to sacrifice America, but then he doesn't do it. Plus, sacrificing America was something that Wong suggested mere moments ago, even though Wong never touched the Darkhold at all! So it appears that Strange-616 is just immune from Darkhold temptations, which is weird because the entire movie revolves around the temptations of power and arrogance.
  • It's possible there hasn't been enough time for the corruption to take effect; but in The Stinger mid-credits, you can see Strange gains a third eye, implying the Darkhold has done something.
  • Season 4 of Agents of SHIELD shows the Darkhold being passed between various different people and groups back in 2017. And Word of God confirmed that it was the same book, not a copy or a different tome with the same name. So Agatha couldn't have actually had it for centuries, at most she had it for 6-7 years.
  • It seems being in possession of the Darkhold is not enough to get corrupted, but actively using it is. Strange gained a third eye just by using one spell in the book (although a very twisted one). Agatha was probably making sure to use the Darkhold sparingly, while Wanda is seen diving headfirst into the book as soon as she got her hands on it in the ending of WandaVision.
  • The Darkhold didn't fully corrupt Strange-616 because he only used it for about half an hour before Wanda destroyed it, so then it couldn't continue to influence him. (And Agatha would've only had it for about 5 years, per Runaways.)
  • It might be possible that the speed of corruption depends on one's mental state and desires. Agatha was petty in her desires but also relatively grounded in reality, Strange had both discipline and somewhat noble goals, his main vulnerability being obsession with Christine, and he even managed to overcome that (also, he didn't use the book for long), while Wanda was unhinged even before coming in contact with Darkhold and accustomed to thinking big.
  • The book is also at least semi-sentient, with it being able to change its language and content depending on the reader, and the original author made it for Wanda specifically, so it might as well be a Chessmaster, corrupting different people to different extents depending on the situation, all to cause more havoc and get in Wanda's hands.

Why Didn't Wanda Choose a universe with Vision as well as her children?

• What it says on the tin. Wanda scoured the multiverse to look for one she could settle down in and raise her children. Why didn't she pick one where Vision is still alive?
  • She probably thought he wouldn't trust her if he found about what she did, so to avoid the risk she picked a universe where he wasn't in the picture.
  • Or rather why not going to a universe where her variant is somehow dead and the children are not, ala Black Widow being put in a universe where her variant is dead.
  • In regards to the idea of Wanda trying to take the place of a deceased counterpart, keep in mind that her only shown method of traversing the multiverse is through dreamwalking; in other words, there needs to be a version of her in her target universe for her to know if her children are there in the first place. It's similar to the observation that there may have been other futures where the heroes defeated Thanos, but Strange couldn't see those futures when he used the Time Stone to look ahead because his counterpart died before the final victory.
  • Her children probably wouldn't react well to a new mother showing up after their old one died.
    • As opposed to taking their mother's place entirely?
  • Having a "resurrected" mother is still better than having no mother at all.
  • If Wanda were more reasonable, she could just ask America to take her to various universes until she finds one that suits her. (It really doesn't take long for America to master her powers once Strange gives her a pep talk.)
  • She only dreamwalks when possessing the other Wanda. She's been observing and listening to other universes using other spells of the Darkhold since the last shots of WandaVision.
  • Wanda didn't specifically pick 838. America randomly opened portals until she and Strange ended up there and Wanda had no choice but to follow her. America also purposefully brought her back to that same universe in the climax to help show the mess she'd already made. It's likely that Wanda would have chosen a universe that resembled Westview if she had gotten America's powers.
  • Could be that she was trying, even if subconsciously, minimise the amount of grief her kidnapping would cause. She was clearly shaken when confronted with the thought of what her actions would do to another Wanda, maybe if there was a Vision in the equation, the thought of making her husband suffer through the loss of their kids would have been enough to push her over the edge.
  • Maybe the universes where Wanda is with Vision and the universes where she has children are mutually exclusive. Vision can't be their biological father, after all.
  • We never actually see the reality Wanda intended to pick. She just chose the reality America and Strange were in but it likely wasn't her choice.
  • Word of God is that Elizabeth Olsen was not told why Wanda was not looking for Vision, or her brother, or her parents, though she suggests the theory that perhaps becoming a mother makes children, rather than husband or relatives, the most important thing in the world.
  • Perhaps Wanda didn't want to be constantly reminded that she was the one who had to kill Vision in the first place. Didn't she say something in the movie about "blowing a hole in the head of the one you loved"?
  • Also because Vision is still alive in her own reality (at least a Vision with all the memories of the original), while her children definitely don't exist in her reality.
  • Vision could have just been out shopping or at work, or busy with something to miss out on the action. Just because he didn't show up, doesn't mean there's no Earth-838 Vision.
  • Who says he's even the children's father? Maybe in this universe their father was someone she was divorced from or never married. The boys never mention dad or refer to someone else living with them. If there were someone else living there, surely he would have been in the picture when America takes Wanda to that universe (that Wanda knew that her alternate self was possessing her so if there was a husband or father around, she would have someone there to help in case she was possessed again).
  • Vision already figured out that Westview was fake. Having another Vision around would only pose the risk of him catching on to what she's done.

Have Strange and Mordo fought each other off-screen between the first movie and this one?

• When Strange and America meet Mordo on Earth-838, Strange is noticably hostile towards Mordo and mentions the latter's Face–Heel Turn and talks about the villainous acts he's comitted. Wait, when did that happen? The last time we saw Mordo was in the first movie's post-credits scene, where he was still being villainous in secret.
  • Strange flat out stated Mordo has tried to kill him. So it would appear that, yes, they have.

Why would Strange bring 838 Christine back to her world?

• By the end of the movie, Reed Richards, her employer, is dead, the organization she works for has been utterly decimated, and most of her colleagues are also dead. So why on Earth would Strange send her back to that world where she has nothing now? Obviously, he can't bring her back to Earth-1999, but at least take her somewhere better.
  • Who says she has nothing? Losing a job and colleagues is hard, sure, but that still leaves an entire world she grew up and lived in. Family, friends, a city, culture. Moreover, displacing Christine would risk incursions, which was a big part of stopping Wanda in the first place.
  • Her world is perfectly fine (sans some dead heroes). She's not a refugee.
  • Yeah her world was very futuristic and could recover, and she literally said she could not stay in another universe because that causes incursions.
  • The Baxter Foundation would still exist even after Reed's death; she still has her job. In fact, they may need her even more now to help rebuild the organization.
  • Heck, for all we know, 838-Christine could have a spouse and children back home waiting for her. All we do know about her personal background is that she and 838-Strange didn't work out as a couple.

Were Wanda's kids real in those universes?

• Or were every one of them just her having the same spell as Westview?
  • There may be no way of knowing for sure, but it seems likely they're real for any number of reasons. If Wanda would settle for having fake children, she'd just pull another Westview, for example. When Strange says her children aren't real, she contests that, implying she believes the ones in other universes are real.
  • If the children are real, who fathered them?
    • In the 838 reality, Ultron worked as intended and they defeated any number of threats including Thanos far more easily. This means that presumably, Wanda was never experimented on and got her powers naturally. Since she got her powers naturally, but was never involved as far as we know in all the fighting, she may have led a more normal life. Which means just like any person, she met someone, fell in love, and had children.
  • One theory is that 616-Wanda dreamt of the children (dreams being visions into the lives of alternate lives) and so when she created Westview and her children, those dreams served as inspiration for the appearance and personality of her creations.

The voices in the post credits scene of WandaVision

• In the post credits scene of WandaVision, Wanda hears her children calling to their mother (seemingly her) for help. At the end of this film, the same thing happens though this time they are calling for their own Wanda. It might not be the same audio or words, but the same thing happens. So did the Darkhold give her a preview of what would happen if she went to another universe with them actually existing, an actual vision of the future, or was it just a hint to make her try to find them? Or was it just mindfuckery? Or was it even connected?
  • Wanda likely used the Darkhold to peek at different universes. What she heard was probably just the kids playing around and not truly the disturbing cry for help we thought. Ie, no one needed rescuing.
  • It was probably meant to be taken more thematically than literally. Wanda's trauma combined with the corruption of the Darkhold makes her believe her children need her, while the ending of Mo M shows they don't; they need their real mother. So you're likely right in the sense that the two events are connected, but not in the sense that Wanda used magic to predict the future or anything like that.
  • Maybe she peeked into their universe only to see the kids horribly die while a less powerful/not magical AU Wanda was unable to defend them. Break her that little bit more, make her even more traumatised/focused on getting power.
  • This. Indeed, the Darkhold might well have done this on purpose, considering its whole purpose was to turn her, Wanda Maximoff, into an Apocalypse Maiden.

Black Bolt

• Is Black Bolt the same one from the Inhumans series? Apparently it could be the same since he is played by the same actor from the TV series and the explanation of why he looks different, maybe it is a case of Costume Evolution.
  • It's not the same character. The 838 world looks way different from the more close to reality universes depicted in other Marvel properties, and the way they fear incursions happening due to beings being outside their original universes mean that none of the Illuminati are such.
  • Welcome to the multiverse where you have different variants. He's just a variant of the Black Bolt from the series (which likely isn't 616).

Is Professor X the same one from Fox's X-Men universe?

• There is still no explanation if this Professor X is a variant or is the same from the Fox's X-Men universe, unless the Patrick Stewart himself in an interview says that he was playing the same Charles Xavier from the Fox's X-Men universe.
  • Just like in the above example, Xavier can't be from a different universe, and the 838 universe is way different from what we've seen in previous X-Men films to be the same. Variants often are played by the same actors, with the only exception seen so far being Loki (who's notably a shapeshifter), so that's just a variant Xavier.
  • The multiverse has many variants. Some don't even look alike (Peter Parker's No Way Home). It's just a Charles Xavier variant of the one in the Fox films.
  • Very clearly not. The Fox X-Men live action universe didn't have any other powered humans.

What If? is Canon in the multiverse?

• Captain Carter is apparently a variant of Captain Carter from What If...?, since this Captain Carter is part of the Illuminati and she does not mention the events of the What If? animated series at all.
  • Just like Black Bolt and Professor X. They are variants. This is likely not the Captain Carter from What If but yet another variant. Just like how this world has a Strange, Christine, and Mordo.
  • But, as they jump universes on their way to 838, we see one universe that's entirely animated. So, the Captain Carter we see may not be the one from What If?, while the animated universe makes it a distinct possibility that the series is canon.
  • Word of God is that What If...? is canon to the MCU. The bigger question now is whether the episodes of What If...? are animated because it's an artistic choice, or if it's because those stories are from animated universes.
  • Yes, What If is canon to the MCU's multiverse. No, this is not the same Captain Carter from that show. (And the show is animated so they can pull in any character they want without flying them to a soundstage.)
    • Which is a fine explanation in real world terms, but doesn't explain in-universe why there's an animation universe (or one where everything is made of paint , for that matter).

Where was the Watcher?

• What was the Watcher doing this whole time?
  • Watching. It's his job, and he's forbidden from interfering. Also, most people can't even perceive him normally, so there's no reason for the story to acknowledge he was there, as he had nothing to contribute.
  • The Watcher acted in What If...? only because Ultron specifically targeted him and began to threaten the whole multiverse, and even then he did his best to ensure most of the work would not be done by him. The destruction of one universe, no matter how sad it makes him, is not enough to goad him to break his oath.
  • Recall that reaching a certain level of power elevates your consciousness to be able to perceive the Watcher and by extension the Multiverse, although he can help the process along by talking. The last time he "helped" things went very, very badly. Do you really think that he wants a repeat occurrence? Nevermind him wanting to uphold his oath, he wants to protect the Multiverse, so first and foremost he has to ensure that events play out without as much outside interference as possible.

Is Wanda infertile?

• If Wanda wants kids so badly, why not go to a sperm donor instead of going on a killing spree? She could have just find out the identity of the kids' father, seduce his alternate counterpart in the regular universe, and kill him after giving birth to the boys.
  • She doesn't want any kids, she wants those kids, variants of the ones she briefly had in this universe. And in the 616 universe specifically, the kids had no father, they were created entirely by her magic, though the movie doesn't make it clear how things work in regards to that in the other universes.
  • This question is like asking why a mother whose children died doesn't just have new children to replace them.
    • If they were real kids that died, the question wouldn't have been asked, but they weren't. Those kids were magic constructs. Imagine finding out your wife was part of a year-long coma dream. Instead of moving on with your life and dating new people, you mope over your literal dream wife. If Wanda has real flesh and blood kids, they won't disappear because they would be real actual humans.
    • So close to getting it and missing the point. If you were in year-long coma dream that seemed real, you probably would have trouble moving on with your life. You'd need therapy and psychological help — help Wanda wasn't getting. These question keep assuming Wanda will act logically but by this point she's completely mentally cracked. She doesn't care how these kids were created, she knows how they were created, it's ambiguous but by the end of WandaVision, it's clear she always knew what was up with Westview. She doesn't want kids in general, she wants her kids. They are as real to her as biological kids.
  • And more superficially, she'd have to wait at least nine months to have them, and then more years for them to grow into what she knows. She wants them immediately as they were. The Darkhold is ensuring that she's not thinking rationally.
  • Plus, even if she were impregnated by a variant of the 838 boys' (presumably human) father, the genetic odds that she'd produce a single child rather than twins, and one who wouldn't even resemble the Tommy or Billy she's pining for, are astronomically higher than the chance she'd get the same pair.

616

• Why is the MCU primary universe called "616"? That's the number of the comics primary universe, which is obviously very different. (For instance, in the comics the Eye of Agamotto is not the Time Stone, and also Nick Fury is white.) The MCU primary universe already had an official number: Earth-199999. If you want to retcon that into an easier number, fine, just call it "199" or something. Unless they're trying to tell us that the MCU primary universe actually is the comics primary universe? And, what, are there two planet Earths in the same universe, one hosting the MCU characters and another hosting the comics characters?? This is so confusing! Originally it came up in Spider-Man: Far From Home where Mysterio claimed that this was universe 616. But it turned out Mysterio was a big fat liar who knew nothing about the multiverse, so him being wrong made sense! But now apparently...he was right? What, did he guess the right number by coincidence? Or was he actually aware of Multiversal stuff the whole time, and only the Elementals were made up? If so, how did a random tech-based con artist know more about the Multiverse than the Sorcerer Supreme? And yes, you could figure that Christine-838 is just using a different numbering system, but then it's a weird coincidence that she happens upon a number that Mysterio made up and which also happens to be the number of the primary comics universe. What's going on here?
  • Even in fiction with multiverses, not every continuity of said fiction is on the same multiverse. The movies always were entirely separate from the comics, with the comics having events that should have affected the movies but haven't (Secret Wars being the biggest of them, but also consider the fact America says she's the only version of herself in the multiverse, when she's clearly not the comics version of the character). The old Earth-199999 name was only ever stated on complementary media that often gets retconned away by official information, as usually happens with stuff like this. The MCU version is a movie version of Earth-616, the comics version is its own version of it, and they don't interact with each other in any way. As for Mysterio, maybe he dreamed about the Quentin Beck from Earth-838, and that version of him somehow heard the designation of his native Earth, inspiring him to call it that. Or it's just a coincidence/easter egg.
  • Quentin named the fake Earth he was from Earth-833, not Earth-838.
  • It might be that Marvel has multiple Multiverses like DC, since Chavez says she can't dream due to there being no other version of her in the Multiverse, even though there's probably plenty of other versions of her in various shows and comics.
  • in injustice animation the injustice universe are earth 1 and a alternative Superman who comes from earth 15 calls him self as earth 1 Superman so they start counting from a different order like 6,5,4,3 instead 3,4,5,6
  • It's probably just a Mythology Gag.
  • The MCU is designated 616 by the Baxter Foundation. The designation 199999 is assigned by the Captain Britain Corps. Both groups are completely independent of each other and have different schemes for numbering universes.
  • In the comics, there's different tiers for this sort of thing. There's the Omniverse (all possible and imagined realities), and also the multiverse, but between them is what's called a megaverse: basically, a collection of multiverses. For example, the DC Comics multiverse shares a megaverse with the Marvel comics universe. It's plausible enough that the MCU is in a similar situation: its multiverse is not the same as the Marvel Comics multiverse, but the two do exist within the same megaverse.
  • They're outright putting the comic books and films into separate multiverses. It solves various problems, such as characters who are supposed to be unique to the multiverse. America Chavez is an excellent example; she's unique in the film multiverse, but exists in the comics multiverse as well. Just how far the film multiverse extends is unknown, though the smart money is on all of the live action films Disney owns the rights to (X-Men, Fantastic Four) as well as the Spider-Man films (already established with Spider-Man: No Way Home). Giving 616 to the MCU prime universe aligns that designation as being the primary multiverse of the medium.

838

• Why did the Baxter Foundation designate their own universe 838? Since it's their local starting point, wouldn't it make more sense to designate it 0 or 1?
  • Here's a theory; perhaps the universe-numbering scheme is based somehow on the "magic number" of the electromagnetic constant. (Explanation: "Physicists determined with tremendous accuracy the value of what's been called 'a magic number' and considered one of the greatest mysteries in physics by famed scientists like Richard Feynman. The fine-structure constant (denoted by the Greek α for 'alpha') shows the strength of the electromagnetic forces between elementary particles like electrons and protons and is utilized in formulas pertaining to matter and light. This pure number, with no units and dimensions, is key to the workings of the standard model of physics. Scientists were able to improve its precision 2.5 times or 81 parts per trillion (p.p.t.), determining the value of the constant to be α = 1/137.03599920611 (with the last two digits still being uncertain).") Those last 3 digits are pretty close to 616... Maybe every universe has a tiny, tiny variation in electromagnetic forces, which allows things like superpowers and magic to exist, while they don't in our universe (which would be the 611-verse in this scheme).
    • If you speculate along those lines, it would make sense that if Reed Richards developed the theory, he'd assign universes according to their "Richard's Number". Assuming he didn't reference something like Planck's constant into Planck's variable as an expansion on that work.
  • My guess was that since you create new timelines with backwards time-travel, 838 Christine must have determined that hers was a result of the 838th attempt at time-travel. Or 837th if you want the original one to be 1. (There would be countless variations of each Planck constant.)

Strange- 838 and the Book of Vishanti

• The Book of Vishanti is said to give you the power you need to defeat your enemies, and nobody mentions any drawbacks. It doesn't exact a price or turn you evil the way the Darkhold does. Strange-838 had built a super convient portal that leads directly to the Book of Vishanti. Did he never think to use it? What's all this business about him doing terrible things to stop Thanos, when apparently he had an easy solution available the entire time? Also, did he not think to tell his friends how to open the portal before he died? Like, he knew his death was coming. He accepted it as a punishment for his (apparently unnecessary) crimes. He could have said "Hey, take my watch. If you ever need to defeat a powerful bad guy, just use this to get the Book of Vishanti." Then Mordo could have grabbed the book as his first option when Wanda attacked, instead of hanging around uselessly while his friends all got killed!
  • The Book may only provide a solution to one problem, like a spell that is used up when you read it. It may be considered a Godzilla Threshold, if, once you use it, it's gone. Further, just because nobody mentioned any effects doesn't mean there aren't any. Dealing with magic of that level can be taken for granted as dangerous. For the last point, you don't want just anyone to be able to get the Book; you never know what might happen when someone has such ultimate power. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's a cliche for a reason.
  • If Thanos attempting to murder half the universe doesn't cross the Godzilla Threshold, then what does? And Strange-838 wouldn't be handing the book to "just anyone"; he'd be leaving it in the care of the group he specifically set up to handle multiversal threats.
  • Our main universe Doctor Strange apparently knew what the book was prior to this film's events, and yet he didn't try to retrieve it when fighting Thanos either. It's probably a good indication that the book wasn't the solution he foresaw in either universe as the 1 in 14,000,005 (or whatever it was) chance of winning.
  • Strange-616 didn't know about the book prior to this film's events. He specifically says it's just a myth, and then Wong corrects him with "Actually, I found out it's real when I became Sorcerer Supreme" (which happened after the Snap). Strange-616 didn't foresee it as a solution because he didn't think to explore that possibility. Also he had no means of multiversal travel at the time, so it would have been a moot point anyway. But Strange-838 wasn't in that position. He knew that the Book of Vishanti was real and he knew exactly how to get there. And if Thanos can in fact be killed simply by Thor chopping his head off, then it's hard to imagine that "The mystic book that gives you the power to defeat your enemies" can't do the same.
  • Beyond that, we've seen that Strange is a control freak and very likely wouldn't trust anyone else with such power, even if it was a group he chose himself. We've seen over and over how easily groups of supers fall to infighting; it would be too much of a temptation for anyone to simply pull this book out of the void and use it to solve what Strange would consider a lesser problem. There's also the fact that only Mordo would be qualified to use it, and seemingly the two of them had issues in 838-verse too; so he might not even trust another sorceror.
  • If Strange-838 was so concerned about the book being misused that he decided nobody should ever have access to it, why didn't he dismantle his own portal before he died? It's as if this entire thing was set up for the benefit of Strange-616, but he had no reason to think that an alternate self would be any less destructive than his original self. By the time of his death, Strange-838 knows he's done wrong and he's willing to die for it. You'd think that part of his repentance would involve preventing his alternate selves from making similar mistakes. You'd think that he'd either a) Leave the book in the hands of someone he trusts, or b) Close the portal so that no one at all can get to the book. But he does neither. He leaves the portal intact and tells nobody how to access it.
  • Given that the book is explicitly stated to exist between universes, it may very well be the only version of the book that exists in the entire multiverse. So Strange-838 may have left it there rather than take it into his universe so that heroes in other parts of the multiverse could access it and use it if needed. Doesn't explain why he doesn't tell anyone how to access the portal, however.
  • Strange-838 *does* tell people where the portal is, the Illuminati mention the pathway and Christine guides them there. While he doesn't explain how to get through the door, Christine pieces it together in about 30 seconds using information/an object that only she would have (the broken watch). In essence, he left it for the only one he did trust - her.

Wanda's jump scare

• In Universe 838, when Strange, Christine and America are running from Wanda, they go into a tunnel. They close several metal doors and Wanda tears though each of them. Then another door closes and there's a long pause, and then suddenly Wanda appears from the side, as if she took a side tunnel or something. Is that what she did? If so, why? This door doesn't look any stronger than the previous doors. She can just burst through it. Taking the long route just gives her enemies more time to escape.
  • Considering how Wanda used reflections for teleportation in a previous scene and the tunnel already had streams of water droplets before the collapse, it's likely she entered the tunnel using that same reflective teleportation. As for the why, she may be hoping to invoke the jump scare trope in-universe.
  • Also, right before the tunnel went two ways. Wanda took the opportunity to take the other path and from there find a way to jump scare the ones she pursued.

Incursions

• The Illuminati says that multiversal visitors can cause "incursions" which can apparently screw up space-time and kill millions of people. What exactly causes an incursion, though? Strange and America visit several universes without causing incursions. America has been to 70 or 80 universes without trouble.
  • They probably only happen if beings from another universe stay around for a long time, and America probably never did. Or America's powers allow their travels to not cause incursions. The Illuminati themselves didn't know all there was to know about this, and were working on assumptions
  • The specifications of Incursions are kept vague so that multiverse stories can be told. Traveling to other universes is possible, but a bad idea. The consequences are big, how they come about is uncertain.
  • Incursions probably need something from the other universe interferes with the fabric of reality enough for everything to collapse - like what Strange Supreme did in What If, but emerging from elsewhere (which is presumably what Supreme Strange did in this movie through excessive usage of the Darkhold).
  • It's possible that an "incursion" is caused by entering a universe where you have (or had) a duplicate of yourself. Since America is unique in the multiverse, she wouldn't trigger an incursion no matter where she went. It might also be something that can happen, but doesn't inevitably happen.
  • As they were talking about it as a consequence of dreamwalking, I assume it is because it, at least for a time creates a magical 'tether' connecting the spell-caster's body in one universe to the counterpart they're possessing within another, which drags the two universes closer togeather, potentially causing them to collide and collapse. At least that's the context within the film, the comics featured Excursions frequently within the 2015 Secret Wars event, so I'd suggets checking the wiki.
  • I'm guessing Uatu is able to bypass that since he just decided to let the Ultron Apocalypse universe's Black Widow live in the Assassinated Avengers universe.

You were in control the entire time

• At the climax, Strange gives America a pep talk and tells her that she's always been in control of her multiverse-portalling power. He says that every jump brought them where they needed to go. Um...no. Where they needed to go was to the junction point housing the Book of Vishanti (which is a place she had actually been before!). Failing that, it would at least be helpful to go to a universe where Wanda was never born so Wanda-616 can't pursue them with dreamwalking. Instead they wind up in Universe 838, where they both get captured and Wanda pursues them and then a lot of people wind up dead.
  • He was saying that in a "every step of your journey was necessary to get you here" way. This is the same Stephen Strange who once looked through 14,000,605 possible futures to find a way to stop Thanos, and the only one where they did involved a lot of convoluted turns of events, starting by himself giving up the Time Stone without a fight. He's no stranger to this sort of "twists and turns eventually lead to a good ending" sort of thing. America getting to the book of Vishanti early wouldn't have helped her if she didn't have a sorcerer to read the book, and going to a universe without Wanda would just mean she would have sent another of those monsters after America (it was 616 Wanda sending the monsters all along, even when she couldn't move between dimensions herself, after all). All of their travels did end up giving her more and more of the necessary pieces for surviving long enough to eventually stop Wanda.
  • She did have a sorcerer to read the book. As soon as she met 616-Strange, her very next portal could have taken them to the Book of Vishanti. And it's one thing to say "Your journey led you here" in a "trust fate" sort of way, but it's a different thing to say "You've been subconsciously sending us to useful universes the entire time". They gained nothing of value from the trip to 838, unless you want to argue that America gained confidence which set her up for the pep talk at the end...but that's stretching it. Being chased around by an unkillable monster isn't the sort of thing that typically builds confidence.
  • They did gain something of utter importance in universe 838: a pair of twins who are now deathly afraid of "the Witch", in a way 616-Wanda can't just rationalise away, because she really did screw with their real mother personally. Considering that was ultimately what caused Wanda to have her final Heel–Face Turn, seems like Strange was right on the money. Plus, we do see the outcome of America taking a Strange straight to the book, it's the first scene of the movie. It doesn't go well.
    • The twins don't see their mother getting attacked until after Strange gives America the pep talk. Wanda-616 first arrives in 838 via dreamwalking, at which point the twins are none the wiser. If the entire first trip to 838 had been skipped, America still could have taken Wanda-616 to 838 at the end, and the twins still would have witnessed an obviously-evil doppelganger attack their real mother, and they still would have reacted with shock and horror. As for the Book of Vishanti, that only fails to work at the beginning because a monster shows up to ruin the plan. But obviously the monster doesn't hang around forever, because it's not there when Strange-616 reaches the book later on. So they still could have just gone there directly after the monster wandered off, instead of taking a detour through 838.
    • 616 Wanda would have had no reason to attack or bother either 838 Wanda or her kids if the Dreamwalk had never happened. They're just one version of who knows how many, all of whom she would have had access to after taking America's powers. She'd just need to keep her eyes on the prize, rip the blue from America (maybe tell kids/other her that America was evil and/or this was necessary) and be on her merry. Besides which, when Strange *did* get to the Book of Vishanti, the one page he and we the audience see is a picture of America's star, which makes him realise that she is the key to winning, and she needed the first half of the movie to grow enough to be that key. Getting to the book earlier wouldn't have helped, because she wasn't yet at the right stage of her personal journey to understand how to control her powers. Destiny is frustrating like that.
  • The journey may have been convoluted, but this outcome *could* still be better for America. If her and Strange had found the Book of Vishanti, they'd presumably have defeated Wanda and then put it back in its safe hiding spot... leaving an entire multiverse's worth of copies of the Darkhold, a book that can allow its users to dreamwalk and seek out America for her power. Wanda managed to find out about America somehow, so others could too. The events that ended up happening led to the destruction of the Darkhold across the multiverse, which is arguably a better result than just getting the Book of Vishanti immediately and defeating Wanda quickly.

Supreme Mordo does not know magic

• Mordo-838 is the Sorcerer Supreme of his universe. So why doesn't he cast any spells?? He doesn't abduct Strange with magic; he just poisons his tea. Later on he fights Strange with a glowly sword, but he doesn't cast any spells besides that. The whole fight is just punches and kicks and stuff. It's particularly weird at the end of the fight, when Mordo is in this little valley thing that's maybe 10 feet deep, and Strange escapes out the top, and Mordo is apparently completely helpless to follow him or otherwise interfere with his escape. Can't he just sling-teleport, or levitate, or something?
  • If you recall, both Strange and Mordo were handicapped by wearing 1/2 of the magic-suppressing handcuffs. Stephen didn't get his removed until Christine took it off for him, back outside the courtroom. Neither one could use magic during their fight. Mordo's sword, being magic in & of itself, was the only magic he could use. And why drug the tea? Strange, as another Sorceror Supreme, would quite likely detect a magical attempt to knock him out. He wasn't expecting the mickey, especially since this Mordo seemed well-disposed toward him- at least, to begin with.
  • Mordo was already mostly physically fighting before Strange put the cuff on him. He could have very easily restrained or killed Strange otherwise.
  • Why waste the energy casting a spell when it's easier to spike the tea. No confrontation. That's just being smart. Then later on he's emotional and quickly cuff so he can't cast magic. That's why he can't just magic out after his fight with Strange. Probably saved his life.

America's background

• Does the United States of America exist in the home universe of America Chavez? Was she named after the nation? Was she named after the local version of Captain America? Maybe she is the local Captain America, just with an extremely different backstory? Or is it just a coincidence that her name is "America" and her jacket features a white five-point star on a blue background, and also her portals are star-shaped?
  • The USA was named after Italian explorer Amerigo Vespucci, who hypothesized that the land Christopher Columbus discovered was a separate continent, so the USA doesn't have to necessarily exist for America to be named America. As for the other questions, most of her MCU history is taken directly from the comics, so she's not Captain America with a different backstory, at least that much is for certain.
  • Amerigo Vespucci wasn't associated with a white star on a blue background, was he? That's the extra detail that really seems to suggest "United States of America" specifically. Is this explained in the comics?
  • America and her mothers were wearing blue outfits with a white star in their home dimension, but the designs don't look particularly USA-y. As America grew and needed new clothes, it makes sense that she'd gravitate towards similar outfits. In universes where the USA exists, a design like that is usually going to be something patriotic.
  • Maybe not in our universe.
  • In the comics, America's world was created by the Demiurge aka Billy "Wiccan" Maximoff who was born in the USA. It's possible that the inhabitants of the Utopian Parallel (America's world) used a lot of references to the USA (like naming America) to honor Wiccan. If the MCU follows that, it will likely be the same.
  • America is just used as a name for people outside the United States. Really all there is to it. A lot of towns/cities/states are named after people.
  • You all do realize that "America" is the name of the CONTINENT the USA takes its name from, right?
  • America is a pretty common Latina name (see America Ferrera, star of Ugly Betty and Superstore). You wouldn't ask if someone named River was heavily associated with a river, would you? And if they wore something with a river logo on it, would you assume the were heavily associated with a river or were drawn to that logo because of their name?
  • In regards to her jacket being blue with a white 5-point star on it, that's literally the Somalian flag. If anything, her denim jacket makes her look more like a Captain Somalia than a US patriot. But it's likely in her reality, the design has nothing to do with any of the countries in our world.

How long the first alternate Strange has been dead?

• His corpse seems to be rotting rapidly. Didn't he just die not too long ago?!
  • According to this handy guide online: "Decomposition begins around 4 minutes after death (emphasis added). 24-72 hours after death — the internal organs decompose. 3-5 days after death — the body starts to bloat and blood-containing foam leaks from the mouth and nose. 8-10 days after death — the body turns from green to red as the blood decomposes and the organs in the abdomen accumulate gas." Dead Strange seems to be somewhere between stages 2 and 3. It's unclear how long Strange and America were tripping from universe to universe; it's also possible that time moves at a different rate in the 616-verse than others. There are also factors that speed the process up, like temperature, environment, exposure, the soil around a corpse, etc.
  • It's also possible that being killed by a multiversal creature sped up the decomposition process.
    • This does seem likely. He was wounded in the leg by the creature, and it briefly cuts to show it decaying rapidly, so it's possible that whatever that demon was, it burned through his body and caused to to fall apart faster than normal.

Black Bolt part 2

• Wanda seals B.B.'s mouth shut just after he takes a breath; his resulting sealed-up scream blows his mind (so to speak). But what was stopping him from just releasing his breath out through his nose? (Sinus trouble, maybe?) He obviously doesn't have to scream every time he exhales. Or was his screaming from instinctive horror at what just happened?
  • He screamed because he was horrified.
  • His powers activate by talking, not breathing. You can't talk from your nose.
  • Talking is the movement of air over your larynx. Just try and do what Black Bolt did: take a deep breath as if you want to shout, and then... just don't. The air will pass out of your nose naturally.
  • It may be that he thought his powers would rip a new mouth open and didn't except his own face skin to cause his powers to ricochet. He's never not had a mouth before.
  • It seemed very obvious to me that he intended to use that scream to kill Wanda, but she sealed his mouth before he could release it. He'd already built up the blast (or whatever it's called) and it had to go somewhere.

Discovering America

• How did Wanda find out about America, and then locate her? And was America's arrival in the MCU the result of intentional herding by Wanda, or just more of America's subconscious sending her to the best universe for help?
  • It's not clear. We know that Wanda has been dreaming, so...maybe one of her alternate selves caught a glimpse of America during her many travels through the multiverse?
  • Wanda also has access to a tome of eldritch magic. It's possible the Darkhold contains spells to track down "multiversal anomalies" allá America Chavez.
  • The book and the temple it's based on were made by Chton, who clearly had some sort of ability to predict and/or manipulate future. It's possible he explicitly knew that America and her powers would exist and simply wrote it down.

Why doesn't America go home?

• America has been lost in the multiverse for years, but now she can control her multiverse-portaling power. So why doesn't she go home? It's established that multiversal visitors can cause incursions that kill millions of people, and it's unclear what causes an incursion as opposed to a "regular" visit. Given those facts...doesn't America's presence in 616 pose a danger to everyone? Even a small risk is still a big deal if millions of lives are on the line! On top of that, even though she lost her moms, she probably had other friends or family in her home universe. Wouldn't she like to see them again, even just to let them know that she's alive? But there's no talk of her going home. Instead she just trains to be a sorcerer at Wong's temple.
  • She was very young when her mothers died and it's not clear when she left her universe. It's possible that, no, she didn't have a real attachment to her home. As to the risk of causing incursions, yes, that's a very good reason for her to go home. It's possible that she can't cause one on the grounds that she doesn't exist in another universe, or her means of travel prevents it, but that's never established in the film. The stinger had Clea confront Strange about incursions, so maybe future films will address the issue in relation to Chavez.
  • America while consciously being able to use it may not have full control. Even then she wants to find her parents. Study and practice will help her more then just hoping for the best.
  • Her parents aren't dead, they're just lost in the multiverse. She wants to find them. Also, multiversal visitors aren't what causes an incursion. Dreamwalking does that.
    • I believe the film mentioned presence of multiversal visitors can lead to incursions.

How did 838-Wanda escape from 838-Strange's vault?

• 838-Wanda while being controlled, is abandoned in the vault where the remains of the Book of Vishanti are, when Strange and friends escape. But, it looks like 616-Wanda loses control, so 838-Wanda is abandoned. But, how did she escape back to her kids? She doesn't have any powers, and even if she managed to get through the door floating in the sky, there's a huge amount of water trapped in the cell beyond the doorway.
  • What makes you think that 838-Wanda doesn't have powers? And anyway, maybe she didn't get back to her kids. It's not clear that we ever see 838-Wanda again. In the climax 616-Wanda confronts an alternate Wanda, but who's to say if she's confronting 838-Wanda specifically? It could be yet another Wanda from yet another universe.
  • She is shown levitating herself up after the control is broken, so she has at least some powers.
  • I'm pretty sure that Wanda would have her main powers in every universe (given nothing happens to her that changes it). As far as I know, The Scarlet Witch is a Nexus being but Wanda is not, so it stands to reason that she would have her basic psionic, mental and magic abilities in every universe unless something different specifically happened to prevent or change it in that universe.
  • It's also possible that 616-Wanda being in 838's body activated 838's latent powers. After all, it was the Mind Stone that awakened 616's powers. As for using them, it's implied that 838 was at least somewhat aware of what was going on, so learning some of the most basic tricks wouldn't have been hard.
  • The movie directly and explicitly shows 838-Wanda using her powers to go right back through the open door she came in from.

Sorcery and Witchcraft in the MCU

• Wong has a line, in the aftermath of the Gargantos fight, about the rune enchantment being witchcraft rather than sorcery. What's the difference between the two?
  • Based on what we know so far:
    • Anyone can be a sorcerer, you must be born with at least some inherent magical ability to be a witch.
    • Witchcraft requires incantations to cast most spells (except for the Scarlet Witch) whereas sorcerers use hand motions.
    • Witches have covens which are more or less required. Sorcerers go to Kamar-Taj to learn sorcery, but after that they can go their own way, run a sanctum, or become Sorcerer Supreme.
    • Witches seem to be all women. (Though that may be wrong and it's just a coincidence that Wanda, Agatha, and Agatha's coven were all women. I'm not sure what Billy would count as, especially since he was made with magic.)
  • Billy can be considered a male witch.
  • Other than that it's hard to tell, especially since Wanda's a special case where not everything applies to her since she's the Scarlet Witch.
  • Pretty sure the idea that anyone can perform sorcery is something the fandom has repeated without much evidence until they believed it was true. If anything, the films seem to point in a different direction. Mordo's stated goal of fixing the "too many sorcerers" problem wouldn't make sense if everyone was a latent sorcerer, nor would Strange's dismissal of Ned.
  • By "anyone can perform sorcery", they mean that anyone can become a sorcerer with proper training.
  • To the best of my knowledge, this idea has never been expressed in any of the films.
    • Strange and the Ancient One: "How do I get from here to there?" "How did you get to reattach severed nerves and put a human spine back together bone by bone?" "Study and practice, years of it."
    • Having to train an ability doesn't mean the ability is innate. Endgame and Thor: Love and Thunder show Thor has to exercise in order to maintain peak performance, the physical equivalent of "study and practice". That doesn't mean that he isn't superhumanly strong without "study and practice", nor does it mean that a normal human could achieve the same strength with "study and practice". The MCU has had plenty of opportunities for the mystically inclined characters to confirm the universality of sorcery, especially with characters like Ned. But they purposefully never have.
  • It seems the difference is esoteric. It's something that magic-users can sense in-universe but it's not something that the audience is meant to perceive directly.
  • The films don't specify a difference. Given that both Wanda and Strange can use the Darkhold without issue, it's possible that the difference is relatively negligible and simply constitutes two distinct magic traditions that take separate approaches to achieve a common outcome. Witchcraft is based in western pagan tradition, while sorcery is a hodgepodge of eastern religions. Either philosophy would have different spells to suit the needs of their environment, but that wouldn't necessarily mean the two are mutually exclusive.
  • Sorcerers also seem to tap into the universe\multiverse's energies to summon their powers, while witches simply have an innate ability to manipulate reality and create things out of thin air.
  • See Unequal Rites. Judging by the wording, the distinction is more cultural/political than fundamental - in the MCU, sorcery is a tradition specifically associated with Kamar'Taj and its founder, and with their role as explicit guardians against Dormammu and other extradimensional gribblies, it's easy to start see themselves as special, but there's a lot of magic outside their grasp.
  • Based on information from Thor: Ragnarok, it seems what is defined as witchcraft in the MCU may be more of a lifestyle choice thing. Loki uses magic and learns magic from Frigga, who states that she was raised by witches. Yet Loki says that he is not a witch (although according to Thor, he dresses like one). It seems the difference between witchcraft and sorcery may just different methods of implementing their will to create change. A sorcerer may have had to open a portal and conjure the beast that attacks America Chavez, whereas a witch may have to lay down certain runes and incantations to contact and get them to do their bidding. By seeing the runes etched on the beast's skin, one could see the method of magic used to summon it was witchcraft.

Why didn't Wanda just chose to have children in-vitro or conceive them for good with someone if she wished so much to be a mother?

• It didn't make any sense on why she is fixated so much on having exactly those boys, especially when she didn't care too much that Vision was missing or dead in the Multiverse. Which means is not necessary for him to be their father. At least this is the way I interpret the things. She could have had the boys so easily, without causing so much trouble. And what if her conceived children would turn out to be the boys no matter what? With or without Vision.
  • As previously mentioned in the "Infertile" folder, her being fixated on having exactly those kids does make sense, even if it requires some context extraneous from the movie. She already had the experience of being the mother of those boys in WandaVision, and the grief of losing them (amplified by the Darkhold's corruptive effect) is what motivates her. She doesn't just want kids, she wants her kids back.
    • But if she could change reality on her own to impregnate herself with those children and age them up rapidly, why couldn't she then use the power of the Darkhold to do the same thing but make it reality? Or open a window back in time and pull Billy and Tommy out of Westview and make them fully real just before Wanda collapses it? Why mess with the multiverse?
    • Considering how her kids in Westview couldn't exist outside the Hex, maybe Wanda's still not able to do that. So she doesn't want to risk failing and going through the pain of letting them fade from existence again. Maybe the Darkhold wasn't able to help her accomplish that or influenced her into thinking the best way to get Tommy and Billy back is to steal them from her doppelgänger.
    • Remember also that in WandaVision, Wanda's sons started asking questions about their father, their powers, and what was going on in their home before the finale. Maybe Wanda doesn't want to recreate her sons and have to deal with those complications again so she decided it was easier to find a world where they were (presumably) born naturally with only their mother in the picture.
  • She doesn't want Replacement Goldfish. She is not trying to solve the problem of being a bereaved mother. She has been dreaming and therefore living that she is the real mother of those two slightly older versions of her kids, so the problem she is trying to solve is that she is not their mother in her waking life.

Only one America Chavez in existence?

• If there's only one version of Chavez in the entire multiverse, then how does she have a comic book counterpart?
  • Same reason the MCU is called Earth-616 when that number is used for the main comic books universe. They're different continuities, not two universes on the same multiverse.
  • So Marvel has multiple multiverses like DC pretty much.
  • In addition, America mentions that she thinks she's the only version of herself because she doesn't have dreams of herself, but a shitty sleep cycle could explain that as well, as it's not unheard of for people to rarely or never dream in real life.
• If she is the only one of her kind how can anyone know definitively that draining her powers will kill her? Especially when Agatha got her power drained and lived?
  • Wanda describes America as a "supernatural being", which implies that she's not a human with powers given to her, she's a living cosmic anomaly. Ergo, she doesn't "have" powers so much as she is powers. As for how she knows, it's possible that Defender Strange told her. They were friends for some time before the opening scene of the movie, since America knows about Christine and other details of Strange's life. Possibly Defender Strange tried to take America's powers to keep them safe but stopped when he realized doing so would kill her, and then explained it to her before deciding to seek out the Book of Vishanti instead.

Book of Vishanti

• Why wasn't Strange told the Book of Vishanti is real? He was Sorceror Supreme for a few years between the end of Doctor Strange and Infinity War. For that matter, who is responsible for telling the Sorceror Supreme all this stuff? Is there a note somewhere he overlooked?
  • Whoever said Strange was sorcerer supreme? He doesn't identify himself as such in Infinity War, if memory serves. In No Way Home when Spider-Man asks him about it he says Wong "got it on a technicality," not "I used to be sorcerer supreme but Wong inherited the position after I died." Seems more likely that there was no sorcerer supreme between films, Strange was favorite to inherit it, and Wong ultimately got it when Strange died.
  • Given that the Ancient One was the sorcerer supreme for so long, it's possible there wasn't a codified succession policy.
  • If I recall correctly, Wong says he read it on a book reserved only for the Sorcerer Supreme. One that Strange never bothered to read, apparently.
  • It's very clear in the scene that Strange genuinely didn't know about the Sorcerer Supreme book when Wong brings it up. Also, as stated above, Strange never introduces himself as Sorcerer Supreme. He points out that Wong got the position on the technicality namely that Strange was snapped out of existence and Wong had tenure.

Was she really in love with Vision?

• Was Vision just a trophy husband to Wanda, or did she really love him? It's odd she doesn't bring him up in this movie. She seems more focused on the kids. What if he was the father of the boys in Earth-838 and he tried to intervene? Would she had killed him?
  • Vision certainly wasn't a trophy husband. Her love for him is what created the Hex in the first place. It may be that Wanda has simply made peace. They lived together and loved each other for years in the real world, and Wanda honestly did seem to accept the loss of him both in the SWORD base where his body was kept and with his memory as the Hex was closed. However, Wanda did not have that kind of closure for her children. She only had them for a few days at most before essentially being forced to kill them. As for what she'd do to an alt-universe Vision, it's possible (even probable) that he would be able to talk her out of her plan like 838-Wanda. Her plan was never rational even if she did try her hardest to justify it, so it was doomed to fail the moment she faced any emotional opposition. But by that point, she would've already killed America Chavez, which would've just been a bloodier way to reach the same conclusion.
  • Wanda was witness to Vision's death three times. Two of those times she was the one who killed him. Their last moments together involved him grappling in terror with his impending death—a situation she forced him into in the first place—after convincing her to let her family go. It's probable that she couldn't emotionally coexist with both him and their children after all that. What's more, it may not have been feasible. Universes where Wanda has this set of children with another man *and then* gets together with a super android may be very rare, or simply not exist.
  • Also, at this point in time, the 616 version of Vision is alive. He doesn't have his memories, but maybe in some way that's enough to Wanda, specially after all the coping that came from the events at Westview.
    • You've got it mixed up. He doesn't have his original body but he has his memories and love for Wanda (given to him by Hex Vision at the end of WandaVision).
  • The whole point of WandaVision is Wanda accepting Vision's death and moving forward from it. And considering MoM is basically a year after that, she just wanted her sons back to live a normal life as a mother.
  • Wanda explicitly does bring him up in this movie and refers to him as the man she loves.

How was Sinister Strange able to kill other Stranges?

• Sinister Strange says he has killed other versions of himself from other universes, but how was he able to do it since the only people capable of traveling to other universes are America and people who can transfer they consciences to other versions of himself, which would prevent him from killing them?
  • The implication is that he Dreamwalked into their bodies and made them commit suicide.
  • Another possibility would be that he sent monsters after the other Stranges, like Wanda did when America was out of reach. But the fact he mentions falling dreams specifically point more towards the above.
  • Which begs the question of whether the Cloak of Levitation chose to bond with Strange initially, because it had a hunch that 616-Strange might really need its flying power some night...

Let's talk about dreams

• So dreams are glimpses of the lives of your other selves. But, uh, how would that work with lucid dreamers? Are they dreamwalking? Do they create a new universe?
  • I think the implication may have been that some dreams are windows to other realities, not necessarily all of them.
  • Maybe dreams just work differently in the Marvel Movies Multiverse. Maybe people don't have lucid dreams.
  • Potentially a lucid dream is just you closing off your mind and allowing yourself to wander the Dreamscape. So it might start off as a vision, but once you "take control" it's you just dicking around in one of the Astral planes, with the connection to your Variant broken.
  • It could be that dreams involve drifting between multiple universes, and any inconsistencies in the dream just result from a shift in universe. Lucid dreaming would then essentially be the ability to choose which universe you dreamt of in mid-dream (while perceiving this as choosing your actual actions).
  • It's possible that some dreams are properly a "window" into the lives of a variant of you, but it would seem to make sense that most dreams just coincide with variants' lives. If there are infinite universes, then there are infinite variants. Mathematically, there's at least one version of you who actually did forget to put on pants before they went to school that morning. So when you dream about that, it's lining up with an actual variant who did that. Not necessarily the multiverse opening a window and showing you that that happened to a variant of you.
• So did no one dream before the events of Loki?
  • The Multiverse existed before Loki. The TVA was just keeping only certain timelines around (ones that would not lead to Kang existing).
  • Plus Tony was specifically shown having nightmares in Iron Man 3.

Black Bolt's Mind Blow

• Did Wanda give him a super tough face? I'd expect his power to simply blast out a hole where his mouth should be. Which would be gruesome and painful, but wouldn't turn his brain into jelly.
  • Black Bolt's powers come from his enhanced vocal cords. So in order for him to use his powers without instantly ripping his throat open, logically his own skin would have to be immune to his powers. It doesn't really make sense, but Required Secondary Powers are a convention of comic books.

Not caring about Wanda

• Why did Strange (or the other Avengers) seem to never even bother to visit Wanda right after the Westview Incident? It could've prevented a lot of trouble if he checked up on her and made sure she was okay. However, it seems that, in the year between Westview and this movie, no one even bothered to visit her once and, when someone finally came to see her, it's just because they needed her.
  • Who's to say they didn't? She was not openly in crazy Scarlet Witch mode, even Doctor Strange only caught on to what was going on when she let America's name slip. If anyone had talked to her before, they would just see a very normal Wanda at peace with herself, just as she wanted them to.
  • Even worse, what if the Darkhold wasn't letting anyone else talk with her? The other heroes missing her role in Westview can be justified as the members closest to her — Steve, Clint, Natasha, Sam — were either dead or busy with other personal issues, and those that were available — Rhodey, Peter, Scott — had no particular reason to look for her at the time (not that they didn't care about Wanda, just that they didn't have any reason to think she in particular would need them). After Westview, Wanda was shown living in isolation, and the Darkhold could have taken steps to subconsciously discourage people from coming to see her without Wanda realising it.
  • The odd one is Strange. The members of the Masters of the Mystic Arts tackle potential magical dangers. However, if the dialogue between them is any indication, it seems that Strange never previously went to Wanda to offer her a place in Kamar-Taj to learn magic.
  • We don't know for sure that they or the Avengers never visited her. Strange knew where to find her, and she didn't seem surprised by him showing up, so she probably wasn't hiding. They may have simply believed her when she said she was giving up magic and wanted to be left alone for a while. Hell, for all we know she texted the Avengers group chat and told them she was okay and didn't need them checking on her.

America's powers

• So America Chavez has the ability to travel through the multiverse. The multiverse wasn't established as a thing until the end of Loki.
  • Well this takes place after Loki, and the Timey-Wimey Ball explanation is that once Loki blew the multiverse wide open, the multiverse retroactively always existed.
  • The thing is, when He Who Remains died, timeline branches started appearing all over, not just from a certain point of time onwards. So, you can't really pinpoint a "before the multiverse" and "after the multiverse" using one-dimensional time.
  • What are you talking about? The multiverse very much did exist during and before the events of Loki. He Who Remains was just pruning timelines he didn’t like it. The existence of the multiverse and variants is established in the first episode and expanded on in the second with an explanation of the differences of variants.

Red lights

• When 616/19999-Strange and 838-Christine are on Sinister Strange's Earth (or what's left of it), there are these red streaks of light, like whenever The Flash uses his super speed. Does anyone have an idea of what those were?
  • I took those as streaks left by not-quite-real rear lights of cars. Either bleeding through from an alternate universe, or echos of a destroyed part of Sinister Earth.

Professor X vs Wanda

• When Professor X confronts Wanda he enters her mind and finds 838-Wanda trapped within. He makes an effort to free her but when he senses 616-Wanda approaching he… stops trying? Wouldn’t he have redoubled his efforts? Why did he seemingly just…give up and let her kill him?
  • After 838-Wanda gets dragged further down, he essentially stands there waiting for something to happen. He probably was expecting 616-Wanda to make a proper entrance, seizing any chance he could to talk her down, which would be in-character for someone who prefers to dissuade conflict with dialogue. Unfortunately, he didn't realize that he barged into a horror movie scenario where the assailant force wasn't in the mood for a chat.
  • He's also trying to buy enough time for America to get away. He knew he was dead, since Wanda had already massacred the rest of his team. Rushing a confrontation with her would just accelerate the process. Whatever his thought process was, he was able to give Christine and America enough time to escape and get to safety.
  • I figured he sensed Wanda had taken back control, she was coming for him, and was debating the range of options he had to stop her. After that, I don't blame him for giving up.
  • Even for someone like Professor X, freezing up isn't impossible. He sensed Wanda entering the mindscape and realized that she was incredibly powerful, and for a moment he was shocked and unsure of what to do. Unfortunately, that moment was all it took.

Mid-Credits Incursion

• In the mid-credits scene a lady appears and tells Dr Strange he caused an incursion. Which universe is he supposed to have destroyed? 838? Or Sinister Strange's already wrecked one?
  • The explanation's admittedly a little vague, but it seems that incursions can cause universes to be destroyed, they aren't necessarily universes being destroyed in and of themselves, only if they get out of hand. The fact that Clea (the woman in question) adds "And we're going to fix it" indicates that there are ways to lessen the effect of Incursions before the damage becomes irreparable.

Black Bolt pt. 3

• Black Bolt can evaporate people with whispering and his normal speech is enough to level cities. That is both consistent with his comic book power level and with what was shown in the movie and his series. The kind of scream he let out, mouth or not, should be enough to leave a smoking crater where North America (or whichever continent the Illuminati base was on) used to be. And yet... It was completely contained within his head?
  • Black Bolt is also a Flying Brick. His skull is very resilient and dampened the effect.
  • He died instantly, so maybe the scream got interrupted before it reached full strength.
  • For his powers to not immediately kill him at any time, it must mean his skin blocks it (just like Cyclops is immune to his own optic blasts, and that's why closing his eyes works as a way to stop them). As such, the power was all contained inside his own body, mostly the head. His brain apparently doesn't enjoy the same degree of immunity as his skin does.

Illuminati on Titan

• It seems weird that the Illuminati and only the Illuminati were on Titan to fight Thanos. Given that Reed explicitly heads the Fantastic Four, Captain Carter is referred to as the first Avenger, and Professor X presumably still created the X-Men; why weren't those teams brought along?
  • Given the timeline of events in Infinity War, and presuming a similar path happened on Earth-838, they were presumably all back on Earth fighting off Thanos' forces as they were hunting for the other Infinity Stones.
  • Plus, the other Illuminati wouldn't want witnesses to their subsequent execution of 838-Strange, so had another reason to leave the rest of their respective teams behind.

Why not go to a universe without Wanda?

• The main reason the heroes don't just help Wanda get to the universe with her kids is because it also contains an alternate version of her that 616 Wanda would have to Kill and Replace and they don't want her to do that. But surely somewhere out there in the infinite multiverse there's a universe where Wanda's kids are real and their mother tragically died for some reason. Why can't Wanda just have America take her there instead?
  • The main reason the heroes don't just help Wanda is she wants to steal America's powers and kill America. By the time America has conscious control of her powers, Wanda's so far over the line, they don't want to help her plus they now know from 838 that staying the wrong universe causes incursions that cause mass death. Why that's not Wanda's own plan has it's own folder above.
  • Wanda is VERY CLEARLY not thinking rationally, both out of grief for her losses and from the Darkhold influencing her. She doesn't care or plan for how she gets to be with her kids, all she wants is to be with them no matter what she has to do to get that result. It's entirely possible the Darkhold is influencing her mind so much that she genuinely can't think of a result like that, only a Kill and Replace plot.
  • Plus, Wanda has become so obsessed with the boys' safety that she wants to be free to universe-hop in search of cures or protections for them if they're ever threatened again. Just having America drop her off someplace where Billy and Tommy have no Mom won't allow her to do that.

How did Strange know who Spiderman was?

• Strange explains to America who Spiderman is when telling her about their universe. How, exactly? Didn't he wipe all memories of him at the end of the last movie?
  • No. He wiped all memory of Peter Parker. Recall that even Happy remembered Spider-Man as the reason he met May, and Jameson mentions him in his broadcast. Everyone knows the superhero exists, they just know nothing about Peter.
  • Notice how he doesn't even know how Peter's web works anymore, something he probably got information on when planning their attack on Thanos during Infinity War. Everyone remembers Spider-Man exists, and that he helped them as a hero, but the specifics that would entail knowing his secret identity were erased from anyone's memories.

Why did Wanda Hex her apple orchard?

• Westview she Hexed (subconsciously) to recreate her life with Vision. But there don't seem to be any people in this new one besides Wanda herself, and Dr. Strange is just able to fly in.
  • Wanda knew at some point Strange was going to find her and pay a visit. She also wanted to get America, and knew that if Strange saw her corrupted orchard, he wouldn't mention if he has seen her or let her go as far as suggesting he bring America to the orchard. And considering Wanda was the one to summon the demons trying to get America, including Gargantos, she most likely knew that Strange had met America and saved her from Gargantos. Literally the only reason Wanda eventually dispels the Hex is because she slipped up in naming America before Strange mentioned her name, and decided that she may as well move on from pretending to be nice and magic-free to threatening to bringing down the wrath of the Scarlet Witch on Kamar-Taj if they don't hand over America.
  • Still doesn't answer my question on why she used all that chaos magic on the orchard in the first place. Disguising it, go figure. But why chaos magic the whole thing in the first place.
    • Wanda was doing blatantly evil things in a world of superheroes and sorcerers and needed to cover it up. That's what the pretty orchard was for. As to why it was evil in the first place, it probably wasn't intentional. Dark magic corrupts and Wanda was doing a lot of it.
    • Fallout from all the high-level dark stuff she was practicing from the Darkhold. It's obvious she no longer cared about effects on the environment at this point.

Memory Lane

• So on Earth-838 you can apparently walk down the street minding your own business and be suddenly forced to watch a memory randomly pulled from your subconscious? Not only that, but people around you can see it too, privacy be damned? We know from America's memory that very traumatic events can be shown, so what if someone's chosen memory is of abuse? Violence? Death? Sex? Children could be passing by and watch, how can this be a thing?
  • The only time it's shown, it's by two people who are not native to that universe and therefore don't know what it is. Presumably, everyone on Earth-838 knows not to step on the obviously glowing tiles right in front of Memory Lane unless they want a memory pulled up (and most likely get billed for it after). Also, it could just be pulling up a memory that the person recently thought of, or is relevant to what they are talking about. Strange's memory is of when Christine gave him his watch (the one he refuses to part with), and he was most likely dwelling on how he had lost his chance with Christine after seeing her marry another man. Plus, this is all being based on rules of our universe; Earth-838 has different rules (such as green meaning stop and red meaning go), so it's not totally out of the question that everything we consider unethical or morally wrong are considered the same there.
  • The sidewalk things seemed like they were essentially just a form of advertising, like a combination "free trial" and billboard. The actual service is probably much more private. Plus, you can step off the pad and end the display at any time.
  • The public display is probably designed to replay only pleasant, G-rated memories. It's an advertisement, after all: Memory Lane wouldn't want to turn off its customer base with ugly recollections. America's memory-replay only turned grim because she kept the memory of the last time her family were together and happy running for too long.

No Strange/Christine Universe?

• How can there be absolutely NO universes where Strange and Christine get together and have a happy relationship? The very idea of the Multiverse is that there is a reality for every possibility (which is kind of terrifying when you think about it), so, logically, there SHOULD be at least ONE universe where they’re together, right? So, was the Dark Variant Strange lying? Was he genuinely ignorant of such a world? Or was he trying to dissuade her counterpart from looking out of some concern for him or his universe as a whole?
• And building off of that whole idea (for a bit of Fridge Horror)…If the Strange Variant WAS telling the truth, that there was absolutely no reality where Strange and Christine get together (and assuming that the infinite possibilities thing still applies…)….then is something ACTIVELY interfering with Strange and Christine, making sure that they can NEVER be together no matter the universe? Because, if so, WHAT the HELL is doing so?
  • We do in fact know there was at least one universe where Strange and Christine got together and had a happy relationship: the universe where Strange Supreme came to be, they were still together. Granted, she ended up dying with her death being an Absolute Point in time where undoing caused the destruction of the universe, but Strange and Christine never broke up there. So, there's no doubt variants of that universe where things went differently and they stayed together and she never died. As for why Sinister Strange never found one, well, the drawback of an infinite multiverse is that it's well... infinite. You could potentially search the multiverse for millennia for one specific outcome you want, and unless you get lucky, you'll never find it. Think of it like looking for a needle in a haystack; scaling it up so you have infinite needles means you still have to sift through an infinite amount of hay to even find one of those needles. So it's perfectly possible that Sinister Strange simply never found a universe where Strange and Christine were able to stay together.
    • I took that as the same thing. Christine died, once again snatching that away from him. As for why... I wonder if it's because every universe needs a Sorcerer Strange, and a happy Strange does not make that choice.
    • Maybe that's the real absolute point - Strange and Christine can never end up together. That particular universe it was achieved by her always dying, other universes have them not work out in various ways, etc. The end result is the same, and trying to change that broke reality.
  • It's not without precedent; in the comic storyline Original Sin, the prelude revealed that the reason Uatu keeps looking at alternate realities is that he's trying to find a reality where his peoples' decision to share advanced technology with a primitive race worked out (as opposed to what happened in his reality where that race ended up destroying themselves)... and in every universe Uatu's seen so far, that is the one thing that always happens the same way.
  • Reeks of a deal with Mephisto to me.
  • It's worth mentioning that he was using an evil artifact to conduct this search, it's very possible that he didn't find what he was looking for because the book didn't want him to find it. Believing that no version of himself could ever be with any version of her is explicitly the idea that drove him to become a multiversal serial killer so it makes since that the Darkhold would manipulate the search specifically to lead to that sort of outcome.

What's with the handcuffs?

• Strange tricks Mordo into hitting them enough that they break... but then he clasps one on Mordo and it works fine again.
  • The power dampeners are in both cuffs themselves, so putting one on Mordo shuts his power off. Breaking the actual chain didn't stop the power dampeners from working.
  • He hit them hard enough that the clasp came loose, allowing Strange to get it off his arm, but it was still intact enough for him to then close it again on Mordo.

Wiccan statue in Wundagore

• Wanda can be seen touching a statue of her son Billy (with Wiccan suit) in Wundagore. Anyone know why there's a statue of Wiccan alongside the Scarlet Witch's one there?
  • Maybe Wundagore shifted its appearance to further tempt Wanda, just like the Darkhold was manipulating her and showing her what she wanted to see. An image of one of her lost sons would further confirm her belief that she's meant to gain power and reunite with her children, keeping her firmly on the path of corruption.

Why not destroy the darkhold temple?

• If Wong knows where the darkhold temple is why hasn't he destroyed it already? Presumably some people might be corrupted if they went there but Wong seemingly has zero interest in the darkhold's powers.
  • It's likely that they tried but failed. Considering the Sorcerer Supreme couldn't use his sling ring to even get to the temple, there's undoubtedly some sort of enchantments that would keep that from working. Scarlet Witch would be able to bypass those enchantments because the temple was effectively made for her.
  • Why not just destroy it the old-fashioned way then, with explosives or something similar? They do have cannons after all.
  • I somehow doubt the temple of the First Demon can be destroyed by conventional means like explosives.

Why does Wong give up the location of the darkhold?

• If Wong is the only one who knows where the darkhold temple is couldn't he have killed himself once his acolyte destroyed the book version? Wanda can't very well torture his students to get the information out of them if he's dead.
  • You assume that Wanda would have let him kill himself.
  • Killing himself just means he won't be the one to give her that information. It doesn't mean the information still isn't out there. He himself seems to have gained this knowledge from whatever special book you are given when you become Sorcerer Supreme. So there's at least one other place the information could be found, without him. Killing himself just takes him off the battlefield.
  • Giving Wanda the location also means her attention is now focused on going there and not on trying to kill anyone trying to stop her. And once Wanda is there, she leaves herself open to counterattacks once they've regrouped. Essentially 'live to fight another day'.

Why all the lethal magic?

• Wanda is insanely powerful and her powers (mental compulsions, reality warping) should make it simple to disable opponents non-lethally without any more effort than it would take to kill them (see how she instantly seals Black Bolt's mouth). Why atomise people then when she's still trying to convince herself she's not a monster?
  • Wanda wasn't even thinking straight at this point. Her mental state is so twisted by years of depression, grief, loss and loneliness (plus the Darkhold's influence) that I don't think she's even aware of all the holes in her logic, at least until the end of the movie.
  • One thing that has been consistent throughout the MCU where Wanda is concerned is that, while she doesn't like innocent people suffering, if she believes people are her enemies or have wronged her in some way - the gloves come off. The Darkhold is not just influencing her; it's amplifying a personality flaw that's always been there and is now extra sensitive because of how much pain Wanda has had to go through. From her perspective, the people protecting America are the enemies trying to stop her from reuniting with her children, and the Darkhold's influence allows her to turn her conscience off as she kills them under the belief that she's just being a Mama Bear. It's only when she sees how terrified her children are of her that she realises how far she's gone.

Wanda walking on broken glass barefoot

• Was that really necessary? Why didn't she just hover over the broken glass?
  • Why would she care enough to bother? She undoubtedly sees 838-Wanda as little more than a disposable puppet.
  • Because damaging her feet and causing her to limp was clearly slowing her down. If she flew she'd actually have a better chance of catching up with her quarry.
  • I saw it as a shout-out to Moon Knight (2022).

Questionable rule of existence

• The whole "destroy one object from the universe, and it will cease to exist in others" schtick is confusing when it comes to Darkhold. Unless it is specifically stated to be an omniversal artifact of doom, that wouldn't be possible.
  • It shouldn't be possible, unless they're all linked through magic or something insane like that.
  • Not sure what this is asking. The destruction of the darkhold in all the universes is something Wanda intentionally does via magic. Not the result of it just being destroyed in one universe. The 616 copy of the darkhold is destroyed earlier in the film and doesn't affect any other universe's copy.
  • Remember that the Darkhold books are copies; Mt. Wundagore is the real Darkhold. It might be that Mt. Wundagore was unique, a location "shared" by all the universes, and when Wanda destroyed it, all the different copies of it floating around in the multiverse went with it. This also makes it more similar to the Book of Vishanti, which also seems to be unique.

Zombie witch

• Allusion to What If...? aside, why did 616-Wanda look like a zombie inside 838-Wanda's mindscape when snapping Charles' neck? Was that a conscious choice or just an Evil Makes You Ugly embodiment of her Scarlet Witch persona? At various points in the movie (like the subsequent chase outside the mindscape) she does act zombie-like, hobbling around bleeding and pasty and all, but this was full-on decomposition.
  • Zombies are traditionally very interested in brains.

The difficulty of travelling between universes in this movie versus No Way Home

• In this movie, America's ability to jump from one universe to another is treated as something unique, which is why Wanda is so bent on absorbing her powers. Whereas even for powerful magicians like Wanda or Strange, the only other means of entering another universe is possessing the body of their counterpart there. But in No Way Home, it was seemingly way easier for magicians to travel the multiverse: Strange's completely unrelated spell pulled several characters from different universes by accident, and at the end of the movie he uses another spell to send them back to their respective universes. So, is multiversal travel supposed to be extremely difficult or not? (Multiversal travel was also quite easy in Loki, but there it was done through technology provided by Immortus/He Who Remains, which assumably isn't available to anyone outside the Time Variance Authority.)
  • It's America's mutant power, and that's probably fairly unique, especially since Xavier's school seems to be retaining its cover as an ordinary boarding school at this point in this universe. Powerful magicians have to make an effort, and as you say the rest is tech. Ned had some Worf powers, or beginner's luck. Strange messed up his spell by adding edits, so it spun out of control and summoned people who knew the secret instead of erasing their memories of it. Overall, it's probably not that hard if you have enough power and are doing it right. Wanda's reasoning was all over the place, probably trying to account for maybe being unable to do it by magic when she needed it, or being anxious about not being able to find the right timeline without America's powers.
  • Ned didn't summon the other two Spider-Men to his universe, it was made clear they had already been summoned there by Strange's spell, and Ned's portals merely found them wandering in New York. But the main issue is that, without America helping them, both Wanda and Strange have to resort to possessing the bodies of their alternate universe counterparts, even though No Way Home had already shown Strange himself is capable of creating portals to other universes via magic. So why couldn't he (or Wanda) do it in this movie?
  • From what I gather, they were supposed to be released in the opposite order, Multiverse first then No Way Home. Clearly that got messed up, but if you think of the chronology as going that way, it could have gotten easier for Strange in the meantime. Also, maybe it's just easier to pull people into the universe you're in than it is to go elsewhere yourself. Also also, when you dream you possess your alternate self without, apparently, controlling them, so maybe possession with control was all that occured to them at the time.
  • Strange never directly created portals to other universes. The other Spider-Man characters were accidentally pulled in as a result of the spell going haywire and were sent back when the spell was corrected.
  • How were they pulled in and sent back if not by creating portals to other universes? And if something like that can happen by accident as a side effect of another spell, how hard can it be to do it intentionally?
  • They key word in the previous post is directly. Strange didn’t deliberately create portals with the goal of bringing in people from universes. It happened as a unintentional side effect of the spell. His mindset was “fix the spell and everything will go back to normal.” He didn’t know how to intentionally do it and doing so would likely be seen as too dangerous.
  • In No Way Home, Strange opened the multiverse by complete accident, and didn't even understand how he had done it. His first attempt at reversing the spell only made it worse, it was nearly a complete catastrophe, and his eventual solution was essentially a guess that managed to work out. There is no way the events of that movie could have led to a safe, effective harnessing of multiversal travel.
  • Plus, when the Raimi and Webb characters were sent back, it didn’t create portals that they had to physically walk through. They all just faded back into their own universes.
  • What does is matter if there was a portal or not? The point is, that at the end No Way Home Strange has managed to come up with a spell that can be intentionally (not accidentally, as in the beginning of the movie) used to send someone to their home universe. So why doesn't he use that spell to return home in this movie? Why does he have to retort to possessing the dead body of his alternate universe version?
    • Them being sent back didn’t seem to be something he was actively doing. He seemed to be casting a new spell that negated the effects of the old. There wasn’t any indication that he could actively control it, certainly not in a easy to use fashion.
  • Since they were supposed to be released in the opposite order, you can think of the chronology as originally intended. A vaguely recalled comment Strange made about Spider-man could probably be interpreted as referring to "Infinity War".
    • His comment was specifically in response to being asked if he’s dealt with the multiverse before (“We have experience of the Multiverse. Most recently, there was an incident with Spider-Man.”), which wouldn’t make sense in reference to the events of "Infinity War", as that didn’t involve the Multiverse.
  • Strange's spell causing people to be pulled through from other universes is something he has no understanding of. He has no idea how or why it actually happened, nor what caused it, especially since wiping Peter's identity from everyone's memory shouldn't have even had multiversal consequences. Plus, if the spell had gone completely out of control, it would have pulled an infinite amount of people across the multiverse into a single universe, as it was on the brink of doing in No Way Home. In short, Strange doesn't know how to replicate the effect, and given the consequences of it getting out of hand would be arguably the same if not worse than dreamwalking, he has no desire to actually experiment and try that method, especially since America doesn't have time to wait for him as is.

"Illumi-what-i?"

• It’s understandable being incredulous that they would use that name for themselves, but why does Strange react as though he's never even heard the word "Illuminati" before? It's not like it's an uncommon concept.
  • It's just a way to convey surprise in movies.
  • In a movie world where there are actual secret mystical conspiracies, some of which have lasted millenia, its entirely possible the term Illuminati was lost to history because who bothered to keep spreading its story?

PTSD Alternate Universes

• It's revealed in this movie that dreams are supposedly visions from another universe as experienced by one's Alternate Self. If that's the case though, how do PTSD-induced nightmares factor into that logic, such as with Bucky and Tony's flashbacks to being the Winter Soldier and Loki's invasion respectively? Those dreams are of events that have already happened, so it can't be an alternate universe.
  • On the one hand, it could be as mundane as your brain running through the memory in the sleeping state. On the other, with an infinite number of alternate selves, an infinite amount of them would be going through similar trauma at some point. We don't know if by "parallel" they mean "all version of 1990 or the second World War or Rockefeller take place simultaneously across all timelines", but it seems more likely that things get pushed around a little.
  • With an infinite multiverse, time would be relative. Never mind that not all universes would have the same flow of time, there would also be plenty of universes where the only difference between the two is time itself. For instance, there is undoubtedly a universe exactly like ours, undergoing exactly the same chain of events in the timeline, but while it's 2022 for us, for them it's currently 1995, and so on. While events may have happened in the past for Tony and Bucky, for other universes, it's only happening right now and that's probably what their dreams are picking up.

Why didn't Reed sic his son on the Scarlet Witch?

• If anyone can kick the Scarlet Witch's ass halfway to hell and back it's Franklin Richards. The kid created a universe, in his bedroom at like 2 AM.
  • First off, the Illuminati were overconfident and didn't realise they couldn't handle Scarlet Witch on their own so they had no reason to bring a kid to the fight, second we don't know if 838 Reed's kids are Franklin and Valeria and if they are powered at all.

"Stop hitting yourself!"

• I know it's only really meant as a reference/gag, but if Strange really *does* have the ability to make a person punch themself in the face over and over again, could he have used that on Thanos? Not that it would have necessarily defeated Thanos or anything, but it probably would have thrown a (hilarious) wrench in his plans if he was constantly preoccupied with being struck in the mug by his own super-strong fist. Bonus points if it would have prevented him from using the Infinity Gauntlet due to not having control over that arm due to the spell.
  • Based on what we know from the comics and/or movieverse, it seems reasonable to assume that that particular type of magic is basically mind control, which would be useless against someone as strong-willed as Thanos.

Responding to Wanda's Threat Level

• Strange — very justifiably — did his part to bring in every conceivable ally available to stop Thanos, a universe-wide threat. How come he doesn't take similar measures against a threat to every universe like Wanda? I can understand him being at least a little reluctant to go all-out on her since she's a former teammate, but he's shown before to be willing to sacrifice teammates if it means saving the day, so why wouldn't he do the same with Wanda?
  • He didn't exactly have the time. With Thanos, he had the Time Stone and could make preparations for what needed to be done because he had knowledge ahead of time. With Wanda, he just found out she was the Scarlet Witch and only gave him a few hours to prepare. Plus, as he pointed out, the other Avengers aren't exactly going to be helpful against a magical threat of this nature.
  • Maybe a fail-safe would have sufficed at least? Something like "Wanda's possibly gone rogue and we're going to confront her at Kamar-Taj, if you don't hear from me within a certain window of time send backup there ASAP". Surely at least some of the Avengers would be able to show up, especially with how easy it is to transport people via magic.
  • Considering how Wanda soloed the Masters of the Mystic Arts, the Ultron Sentries, and the Iluminati, Strange likely wanted to prevent their deaths.
  • If memory serves, the current Avengers roster includes Hawkeye, Hulk, War Machine, Falcon, Captain Marvel, and Ant Man. The only two characters in spitting distance of Wanda's weight league are Hulk and Captain Marvel. The last time Wanda and Hulk squared off she sent him on a rampage, and that when Wanda wasn't even half as powerful as she's now. Wong is in touch with Captain Marvel, so if he didn't contact her then it can be surmised that she was off world or otherwise wasn't believed to have been of use, and considering how the Wanda vs 818-Captain Marvel fight ended, let's just say that Wanda can simply erase Carol's powers, rendering her useless. Kamar Taj is perhaps the only organized institution of sorcerers in the world, and they're fighting a distinctly mystical threat. It'd be logical for them to assume they need to fight fire with fire, and that outside help would have limited use.

An Easy Target

• If Sara planned on Wanda being so preoccupied with dreamwalking that she wouldn't notice someone walking up and stabbing the Darkhold, wouldn't that have been the perfect opportunity to just slit Wanda's throat then and there? Granted it might have been reasonable to assume Wanda cast some sort of protective spell on herself to prevent that, but in that same vein she might have done that to the Darkhold as well, so it seems like trying to murder Wanda wouldn't be any less risky then trying to destroy the Darkhold.
  • Considering Wanda emerges from the Mirror Dimension with dozens of cuts on her body and her bones all twisted, which then promptly regenerated as she stood up, she clearly has some sort of self-healing magic. The Darkhold was thus a much easier target to destroy.
    ** Perhaps a bullet/arrow/cannon mortar directly to the head, then? Or maybe decapitate her with a portal?

Too Easy a Target?

• Why didn't Wanda take some sort of protective measure with herself or the Darkhold while she was dreamwalking? Did she think because she beat the forces of Kamar-Taj nobody else would ever show up to help?
  • Having just come very close to victory, it's possible that Wanda wanted to maintain her momentum without giving Strange and America—who collectively know more than her—a chance to recoup and plan. Furthermore, there's likely a limit to the defensive measures she could have taken. She had no allies to watch her back, and the only people who are aware of her threat are sorcerers, who can go anywhere. There's not a ton of precedence for sustained magical traps or wards in the MCU. Mordo suggests that's the reason why sorcerers use relics. Agatha had her runes, but even if that magic was in the Darkhold we don't know what other applications those have.
  • Why not something more mundane, like simply finding a spot out of sight to dreamwalk in, instead of doing it out in the open? She didn't necessarily have to use magic to protect herself, just keeping herself hidden probably would have done the trick.

Proactive Use of the Mirror Dimension

• Why not hide America in there preemptively? Sure Wanda may still have found a way to get to her eventually but it'd at least keep her guessing - going by her reaction to being trapped in there herself she doesn't seem to have any clue what the Mirror Dimension is or how it works (at least at first), so she probably wouldn't figure out too quickly that her target would be in a plane of existence she's not even aware of.
  • She's already been tracking America across the multiverse and sending various demons after her, finding her in the Mirror Dimension should be within Wanda's power.
  • Strange also develops a protective streak towards America, so he might prefer to keep her by his side so he can protect her personally. And also, the two of them accidentally end up in another universe pretty quickly, so he needs America to bring them back to his one.

Rotting Corpse vs. Solid Brick

• How was Strange able to break out the bricks that he buried Defender Strange in? Physically breaking through solid brick is next to impossible for anybody to do, much less a rotting corpse.
  • Pretty sure the answer to that is "magic".
  • Zombies have unnatural strength. They just do.

That demon from the beginning of the film

• Where did it go? Going by the precedent that the realm where the Book of Vishanti exists is unique, shouldn't the demon still be there when Strange and America make it back there to get the book the second time? Furthermore, once America and alternate Strange fall through the portal, presumably that leaves the demon there alone with the Book, so why wouldn't Wanda just have the demon destroy it then and there, cleaning up the loose end?
  • The Book of Vishanti is the light magic equivalent of the Darkhold, it's a one per universe deal. Only the 838 book was destroyed, it just happened to be stored in a similar location to the opening version of the Books. Certainly Wong talks as if the book is still extant in 616 in later series.

Why is Wanda so invincible?

• Even the most powerful beings are capable of being stopped yet they never bother to come up with a solution that she can be taken down without being forced a heel-realization. It seems more like plot armor. Strange himself seems to have been nerfed as he never even bothered to fight her like Thanos.
  • The prophecy of the Scarlet Witch presented in WandaVision states that she is more powerful than the Sorcerer Supreme, which means she's the de facto most powerful magic-user in her dimension. She was given her powers by an infinity stone, which is a distinction she shares with one of the other big heavyweights of the setting, Captain Marvel. She has access to the Darkhold, sister book to the Book of Vishanti, which was a weapon so powerful that much of the plot hinged on Strange and America getting it. Finally, there's the genre to consider. Multiverse of Madness is, in part, a horror movie. Wanda is the monster. The monster in a horror movie is always borderline unstoppable.
  • Unlike Thanos, who was a genuinely evil being who believed everything he set out to do, Wanda was just a traumatized young woman being influenced by an Artifact of Doom. Strange sympathised with her and understood where she was coming from, and he'd fought alongside her before, so it would make sense that he's somewhat reluctant to just do away with a former comrade. All they want to do is stop her and get her away from the Darkhold's influence, not kill her.
  • In point of fact she was not given her powers by the infinity stone, the stone simply awakened what was already there. This was detailed in WandaVision.

Why didn't Wanda simply ask America to transport her to the universe she wanted?

• Even if Wanda is too far gone into the Darkhold to be reasonable, why didn't America, Doctor Strange, or Wong suggest this?
  • If the worries are that America can't control her powers, then why not just teach her how?
  • America can't control her powers. She can't take Wanda anywhere on purpose, and there are likely plenty of universes where her family doesn't exist. As to why they don't teach her, it's because they can't. America's abilities are inborn. They'd no more be able to teach her how to use her powers than they could teach Thor to shoot lightning. The power is hers and has to come from her, which it eventually does. Moreover, Wanda makes clear she won't be satisfied with one universe; if anything bad happens to her kids, she expects to be able to go to a new universe to save them. Finally, Strange learns that messing with multiverse travel can cause Incursions, which are cosmic catastrophes. Even if they could give Wanda enough to satisfy her, that in itself could spell doom for an entire universe.
  • Being heroes, they might have something against child endangerment, even if the children live in another dimension.
  • Wanda is impatient and wouldn't wait for America to learn how to use her powers. America herself isn't going to suggest it because she already knows she can't use her powers at will, and she'll be expecting certain death from Wanda if she doesn't get it right instantly.

Why didn't Wanda simply lift Captain Carter and Captain Marvel up with her telekinetic powers?

• Would it not be much easier to just lift up her enemies in the air and slammed them a few times on the ground until they are defeated? It will work especially with Captain Carter, since she does not own any projectile-based powers.
  • It doesn't put her at a disadvantage. Sometimes, when you're mad with power and grief, you put in the extra effort to really crush your enemies in ways that will have them use the story to scare children for generations.
  • Wanda has never really been a 'to the point' kind of gal. Even her introduction in the MCU was wanting to bring the Avengers down by torturing their minds when she could have stopped them all easily with other methods. She goes for the hurt, not the instant kill.

Tina's disappearance?

• What happened to Tina Minoru? She was just fine in Endgame and suddenly, she's disappeared and someone else is in charge of her sanctum and she doesn't even get a mention. Unless, the one in Runaways was her but that's wildly unlikely.

Doctor Strange Plot Armor?

• So Wanda can vaporize people instantly. Why doesn't she do it to Strange? She is shown to be utterly ruthlessly with no regard to killing an innocent child, everyone at Kamar-Taj and the Illuminati.

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