Fridge / Red Dead Redemption 2

Remember that Fridge and Headscratchers pages do not conceal spoilers.

Fridge Brilliance

All

• Arthur and Micah's status as foils are also reflected by their signature appearances. While Arthur wears a blue shirt, Micah wears red. In terms of their jackets, Arthur wears a light-colored jacket, Micah is black/dark. Their other clothes also heavily contrast, as Micah wears light-colored pants and hat while Arthur's are dark-colored. As for their physique, Arthur is lean and fit, while Micah is a Fat Bastard. They even have contrasting faces, as while Arthur is usually clean-shaven or at least has a light stubble and has short dark blond hair, Micah has a grown-out mustache and shoulder-length light blond hair. Lastly, while Arthur's collar is wrapped around his shirt collar, Micah has his wrapped around his neck.
  • John also has a contrasting appearance to Micah during their time in the gang. John wears more muted colors in contrast to Micah's vibrant ones. John's face is disfigured by deep scars, while Micah's is relatively unharmed. Marston is gaunt, while Micah is a Fat Bastard. John's hair is dark, while Micah's is blonde.
• When you think about it, Micah is an older and far more evil version of Gary from Bully. A manipulative sociopath who is also a False Friend and a Jerkass to his allies, he’s also a Slimeball who sucks up to the leader figure (Crabblesnitch for Gary, Dutch for Micah) to get a high position (the Head Boy for Gary, Dutch's right-hand man for Micah). Both even engage in a fist fight with the protagonist in the climax, and later their boss finds out their dishonorable misdeeds and punish them (Crabblesnitch expels Gary and strips him off his position as head Boy, Dutch abandons Micah and mortally wounds him years later).
• Remember that Easter Egg from Grand Theft Auto V in which Franklin owns a book titled "Red Dead" by J. Marston indicating Jack went on to become a writer in spite of everything and told his father's story. This becomes more meaningful if you take this game into account that. It's very likely the book was Jack Marston's autobiography chronicling the events of this game and the previous from his perspective. This effectively means that not only is John Vindicated by History (and by extension Edgar Ross being vilified by history) but it also means Arthur and John's sacrifices were not for nothing and that their names may go down in history (besides Arthur's name being placed on the founder's plaque for a homeless shelter) as heroes.
  • In relation to the book mentioned above, which Grand Theft Auto V protagonist owns the book? Franklin Clinton, someone who spent his life in a gang and is trying to move beyond it just like John Marston, in addition to Arthur towards the end of his life and ultimate Heroic Sacrifice. Mind you, he's still loyal to the Families and branches out through less than legal ways, but perhaps the story of Arthur Morgan and the Marstons ultimately resonated with Franklin.
  • Overlaps a slight dose of Fridge Horror and Humour. There's quite a bit of Easter Eggs that show the supernatural exist in this world and even an Easter egg that ties into Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare which implies the events of that stand alone expansion could have occurred in this universe. But notice the game technically has No Ending with John rising from the dead as a revenant. Now let's say this did occur and something Jack was gonna write down - a zombie outbreak would be kind of a big deal and possibly a subject of coverup, or just a plan case of Let Us Never Speak of This Again. If that where the case it could be why Zombie!John's story doesn't continue; it was part of a half written manuscript Jack decided to not finish or include in the final book.
  • Undead Nightmare is definitely non-canon; the first thing you do is blast Uncle's head off, something that's established to permanently kill a zombie. So unless he grew a second head, there's no way the events actually happened.
• Either Fridge Brilliance or Fridge Horror. If you recall the first game, it's shown Abigail is going through a sickness that doesn't seem to be bothering her all that much until a while after John's death. This could be a little more than Death by Despair as this game shows us the effects of tuberculosis, especially if those who suffer it don't take it easy, as well as how easy it is to catch it. Now take into account how Abigail seemed to be taking things easy before John's death. Now in the second game, during post-Epilogue dialogue at Beecher's Hope Abigail has a persistent cough.
  • Then again, if she had it, she would have lived with it for at least 4 years (7 max) while working daily, and that John didn't catch it by sheer luck. It's much more likely that her lungs simply aren't working properly, especially since she lived and died before medical science could even be called science. It's not impossible, though, since that is a more realistic time frame for TB to kill you and 1/4th of the world is asymptomatic for it. John and Jack could well be among the lucky ones.
• Since this game is a prequel to the first, the ending is already a Foregone Conclusion with Dutch's gang breaking up by the end. In the game itself, Arthur is portrayed as a cynical realist who has already accepted that the end of the Wild West is inevitable and nothing he can do will stop it.
• It's known that Arthur has a way with words and art, as shown in his journal, while John is... let's just say less so. Just compare John's sketching and Arthur's in the epilogue◊.]]
  • Speaking of Arthur's unsung artistic and writing talents, it's fitting that he came down with Tuberculosis, considering how the disease has often been associated with poetic and artistic talent as detailed in this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberculosis_in_human_culture#Context]]
• It’s fairly obvious early in the game, that for everyone’s faults, Dutch believes that everyone in his gang is capable of being a good person, including Micah. While it’s debatable about whether or not he genuinely cares for them or thinks of his gang as pawns, Dutch utterly despises both the idea and accusations that he and his gang are little more than homicidal thugs like the O’Driscolls, despite the very obvious fact that Micah is exactly that kind of person. So why doesn’t Dutch kill or oust Micah from the gang after that little stunt in Strawberry? Because that’s something civilization would do, and deep down, for Dutch it would be admitting that civilization was right about him and his gang.
• Jack's real name is John Marston, Junior. There might be a reason for this. Since John initially refuses to acknowledge the boy as his, Abigail and the others may have attempted to sway his mind by naming the boy after him.
• When Landon Ricketts reveals who he is to John in the first game, John mentions that old gunslinger was famous when he was a boy. Look closely and you can see that a young John Marston's clothing of choice is very much inspired by Landon Ricketts.
• When out roaming the wilds, you’ll often come across multiple campsites within a dozen yards or so of the roads. Most of them will simply have random strangers who are initially non-hostile, unless Arthur/John sticks around for too long. To a player who’s leaning towards High Honor, or simply trying to interact with the game’s random events, the ensuing gunfights, and gaining low Honor as a consequence thereof, can be rather jarring, even infuriating. But considering the number of psychopathic gangs that regularly terrorize the roads to and from civilization, and the number of campsites the player can find that show the aftermath of these attacks (if they don’t arrive just in time to save the survivors), it’s no surprise that the first thing the random strangers do whenever Arthur/John walks up to their camp is to start reaching for their guns. They can’t be blamed for not wanting to be more victims to the likes of the Skinners, Murfees, or O’Driscolls, especially when they have no way of knowing that Arthur/John isn’t a part of those gangs anyway.
• In the second game, John eventually becomes disillusioned enough with Dutch that he doubts Dutch was ever a good person, and just put up a facade of nobility that started to slip towards the end, but in the first game he tells Ross that Dutch was a good man who eventually went mad when none of his efforts ever seemed to make any real difference. Why the change of heart? Maybe it had something to do with Dutch shooting Micah and sparing John in the epilogue, even leaving him the golds and money from Blackwater, which made John think that Dutch finally realized all the wrong he'd done and mistakes he made. Seeing this, John's opinion on Dutch softened, enough so that he was willing to offer a little sympathy for him against the Jerkass agent Ross.
• John's relationship with Jack by the end of the second game is still pretty distant considering how dismissive he is of 12 year-old Jack's love of books, and the awkward aftermath of Jack's traumatic experience hiding while his father gets into a shootout. By the first game, however, their relationship, while still pretty awkward and uncertain, seems much improved. This may have something to do with the seldom-mentioned Marston daughter being born and dying during the interim between games. The death of his younger child inspired John to make more significant efforts to build a good relationship with Jack, and that's why he goes from not understanding why Jack loves reading so much to being much more supportive of it even if he doesn't get it.
• With this game revealing Uncle's part in Dutch's gang, it's not out of the question to believe Ross used this information as a way to work around the promise he gave Marston to leave him alone after he'd tracked down his old friends. Of course he was probably planning on breaking it anyway but it gives an extra layer to it.
• The Arabian horse is very easily agitated. The one spawn-point they have is on the northern, snow-covered mountains of Ambarino, an area which in-game is almost entirely lifeless with only a few predator spawns and NPC encounters. These horses are not used to dealing with threats, as they have very few natural enemies and they could easily see potential threats against the snow.
• If Bill is really intended to be gay, it adds an extra reason why he would be hiding with Allende; his waiter(s).
• The Online mode featuring much more basic, simple storylines in its story missions compared to singleplayer makes a lot more sense when you consider the fact that they're not too different from what you'd read on a Dime Novel back at the time.
• Consider the difference in personality between Dutch and Hosea that we see in the game. Dutch is the flashy, elegant, charismatic leader who's able to put people under his spell with words and convince them into engaging in actions that might seem like a good idea at the time, but turn out to be fatally flawed. It's also implied that his concern and regard for the members of his gang is, while perhaps not entirely insincere, then quite superficial, and he's mainly out for what he can get from them. Hosea, meanwhile is generally more down-to-earth, cautious and comparatively uncharismatic, and seems to genuinely care for the other members of the gang. Now consider that Hosea is a con man. The irony has to be noted; Dutch is, in character and personality, almost the stereotypical old-western Snake Oil Salesman.
  • Also note that while Dutch talks a lot about being A Father to His Men, he doesn't really seem to directly interact with them that much outside of speechifying and work. Hosea, however, is more directly fatherly and close to them; he's often seen around the camp talking to the other members, spends quite a bit of time chatting and hanging out with Arthur, and at one point takes the younger man hunting. Everyone acts like Dutch is the father of the gang, but it's really Hosea.
• In Clemens Point, Jack and Dutch find a dog who had wandered in to their camp. Dutch decides to name the dog “Cain” since he’s a wanderer who did something bad. In the context of the story, this line about being a wanderer who did something bad applies to both Dutch and Jack. It’s no coincidence why it’s those two were the ones who found Cain.
  • After his gang fell, it’s implied that Dutch did nothing but wander the wilderness in West Elizabeth, robbing homesteads and hunting to just stay alive. His bad actions being his atrocious crimes committed in 1899 and prior to that. Thus he became a wanderer.
  • Jack Marston on the other hand, became a wanderer after getting his revenge. Being completely alone, Jack would have nothing better to do but wander the land in the dying Wild West’s very last days. His bad action was murdering Ross in a duel for his father, John’s death.
  • Gameplay-wise, it makes sense why that after killing Ross, Jack would be aimlessly wandering the countryside and only doing the occasional bounty hunting or odd job for money. As it shows the tragic depiction of a lonely drifter who’s lost everything and everyone he has cared for, and feeling like he doesn’t belong in society due to doing something bad.
• Given how important he ends up being to the life of John Marston and his family, the fact that Arthur Morgan goes entirely unmentioned within the first game is something that, while it is obviously a result of the fact that he didn't exist at the time it was made, is nevertheless a curious omission within the universe itself. However, a line from the strange gentleman John frequently encounters throughout the game takes on a certain amount of meaning as a result:
  The Strange Man: Why would you remember me, friend? You've forgotten far more important people than me.
• Several of the gang's deaths are ironic or karmic in a way:
  • Sean kills a Gray guard (either through Arthur or directly) after befriending him over their shared backgrounds. He himself is killed when another Gray guard blows his head off when Sean is lured into a supposedly friendly meeting.
  • Hosea got Sean killed through his failed plan to rob the Grays and Braithwaites. He is killed in the same way as Sean; shot dead by a law enforcement agent.
  • Lenny, noted as overeager and overconfident due to his young age, is killed when he blindly runs ahead of the gang and into the path of two Pinkertons, who gun him down.
  • Molly, who does absolutely nothing for the gang except sleep with Dutch and spends Chapter 3 onwards loudly arguing with him, is killed when she takes the arguing too far and lies that she turned rat, which gets her summarily executed. It's also ironic that as the least productive member of the gang and the only woman not to do any work, she is killed by Grimshaw, who is usually the one to berate and beat the girls when they neglect work.
  • Grimshaw, as stated above, murders Molly in the middle of the camp after falsely suspecting her of being the rat. Out of the gang, she is also violent towards the most gang members, is the most pettily violent and commits the most acts of in-camp violence, beating and slapping Tilly, Mary-Beth and Karen if they neglect their work or talk back to her. She is killed in the middle of the camp by the actual rat, Micah, who shoots her dead like she did Molly.
  • Arthur himself. His initial apathy, arrogance and cruelty to outsiders led to him beating up a helpless, sick farmer who then passed tuberculosis onto him. Even if he attempts to reform himself, he will still die as a result of that atrocity. But if he continues to be a prick and commits even more heinous acts, Micah, a fellow murderous, selfish, unrepentant outlaw, will personally kill him.
  • Micah spends Chapter 6 subtly turning Dutch against Arthur and John. He is killed when John turns Dutch against him.
  • Bill and Javier remained loyal to Dutch despite his Sanity Slippage and participated in the Mexican Standoff against Arthur and John, thinking them to be the traitors. Bill gets killed when Allende betrays him to save his own skin and he and Javier are killed or arrested when John betrays them for real.
  • The Van der Linde gang's ultimate downfall can be traced back to Dutch shooting Heidi McCourt despite her posing no serious threat to him, causing the gang to leave their haul there and all the conflicts resulting from it, and his gang finally dissolved when Dutch tried to make the US Army and the Natives fight each other. Dutch blows off a chance for peaceful negotiation by shooting a woman in cold blood many years later (who similarly posed no threat to him) and lets his Native allies fight the US Army (and John), failing which he is Driven to Suicide.
  • Despite having killed Micah for turning on the gang, John betrayed the gang himself and went after three of his gang members to save his own skin (and his family's). He is Rewarded as a Traitor Deserves and is riddled with bullets like Micah was.
• Dutch and Hosea are Ambiguously Gay and implied to be or have been in a romantic relationship. It's fitting that their Arch-Enemy, Leviticus Cornwall, is named after the Book of Leviticus, which has the passage 18:22 which condemns homosexuality.
• While Grimshaw does smack around Mary-Beth and Tilly if they talk back to her or ignore their chores, she rarely hits Karen and mainly snarls at her, despite all the lip Karen gives her (and she can be very rude). Grimshaw only hits Karen when she talks back against her when drunk. Karen is one of the stronger girls in camp, occasionally participating in robberies herself, and is also more aggressive and ballsy, willing to hit Molly and Sean when they harass her. If Grimshaw were to hit her, Karen may attack her back and injure her, Grimshaw's high position notwithstanding. It may even have already happened in the past. It's only when she's drunk and weakened when Grimshaw hits her.
  • Grimshaw may also avoid Sadie for a similar reason, seeing her fiery temper and recklessness. If Sadie was already throwing a screeching, knife-swinging tantrum when Pearson ordered her around, the things she would do to Grimshaw would be a sight for even Micah to behold.
    • Considering that Sadie isn't really part of their gang and didn't want to be part of the gang, Grimshaw is likely more sympathetic to her plight and doesn't want to further abuse and traumatise her, especially since she was probably gang-raped and abused by the O'Driscolls. That, or Arthur, Hosea or Dutch told Grimshaw to leave Sadie alone.
  • Grimshaw also doesn't beat around Abigail, though she does harass her to prostitute herself again. Along with Jack being Abigail's son and Grimshaw not wanting to traumatise him by hurting her, John is Abigail's de facto husband and, as rocky as their relationship is, will not stand for his wife being abused by a bitter harridan.
    • On a similar note, Karen is lovers with Sean, so Grimshaw may be gentler with her so Sean wouldn't confront her.
  • Grimshaw also doesn't harass or abuse Molly, no doubt one of the perks of being Dutch's girl. Up until Molly screams that she's the rat and Grimshaw blows her ribcage over Beaver's Hallow.
  • Tilly does mention that she thinks Karen and Sadie are deranged madwomen who want to murder Grimshaw.
  • Comparing her discipline, Grimshaw is slightly gentler with Tilly, "merely" pulling her ear compared to slapping Mary-Beth and Karen hard in the face. Mary-Beth and Karen snap back and argue with Grimshaw, making Grimshaw angrier, while Tilly is clearly nervous and admits she's doing nothing, which slightly soothes Grimshaw's temper. Grimshaw also unreasonably resents Mary-Beth due to her being young and beautiful. Tilly also came into the gang when she was a child and Grimshaw is shown to be protective of her, suggesting that she may be her favourite out of the girls. Tilly is also implied to have been sexually abused by one or more of the Foreman Brothers before she joined the gang, so Grimshaw may been softer on her out of sympathy.
• John is quite angry while dealing with the government agents in I. While certainly it's mostly because they had kidnapped Jack and Abigail, it's also because they were the reason the Van der Linde gang fell in the first place, with them turning Micah as a rat and attacking the gang once Arthur was severely ill.
• Wen you buy a vest, depending on your honor level, the color of the vest is different. High honor: blue, low honor: red. This could be construed as a metaphor for the gang members, Dutch and Micah wear red vests, Hosea wears a blue vest. Trelawny wearing both red and blue vests is due to how ambiguous his moral ground is, and his final appearance in the game has him wearing a blue vest, showing that he was Good All Along.
• Near the end of the game, Dutch claims that he and the gang have the Pinkertons spinning by creating a lot of "smoke and noise" that will keep them from discovering and arresting them. If one thinks about this however, this justification completely falls apart and shows just how delusional Dutch is: making smoke and noise only serves to attract unwanted attention to a hiding place. It's no wonder that Agent Milton has such an easy time finding the Van der Linde gang each time.

Chapter 1- 3

• Dutch's behavior changed after the Blackwater Heist. This is initially confusing but it seems very likely that this is due to multiple factors:
  • Guilt: Much of Dutch's pretensions are based around being Just Like Robin Hood. Having murdered an innocent young woman in the heat of the moment may be preying on his mind more than he lets on.
  • In over his head: Dutch's plan was to gather enough money to buy land and settle down to retire. This plan never changes because Dutch doesn't have any more ideas. He's carrying The Chains of Commanding but isn't up to the task.
  • Paranoia: It's possible that the Blackwater Heist may have went south due to a traitor (perhaps Micah), which the game doesn't confirm nor deny. Regardless, from then on he doesn't trust anyone to go get the money from the job, not even Arthur or Hosea. As such, they spend much of the game looking for the next big score when they could have sent someone to Blackwater and solved everything overnight.
• In Colter, the gang picks up two new members: Kieran Duffy and Sadie Adler, respectively, Irishman and a Jew (well, Ambiguously Jewish). Ironically, the two have opposite temperaments from their stereotypes, with Sadie being the bold and fiery one and Kieran being the nervous one.
• In the first non-cutscene conversation, Hosea tells Dutch that he's worried about the state of the gang. Months later, their final conversation has Dutch admit that he's worried that the bank job would fail.
• Why was Sean shot during the walk through Rhodes? Aside from him being the one leading from the front, he and Arthur were the ones who burned down the Gray tobacco fields, so the Grays clearly had a personal stake in shooting him first. Sean was also more distinctive due to his accent and bright-colored dress compared to Arthur's darker colored clothes, so he was more easily recognised.
• Why does Arthur initially refuse to rescue Micah? If his claim that Micah came "full undone more than once", Micah might have had started a similar massacre even before Blackwater, so Arthur might have predicted that rescuing him was more trouble than its worth. For what it's worth, Arthur doesn't seem too horrified by the Strawberry shootout and doesn't even treat Micah any worse afterwards, so his rampage may not be a surprise. And seeing that Micah was slightly more cooperative during Guarma when he needed the others to help him leave, he could have been even more unpleasant before the Blackwater massacre before becoming slightly more friendly.
• Why is Arthur's dead eye so great when saving John and Strauss? Because he just drank whiskey with Dutch.

Chapter 4- 6

• Why does Arthur keep lagging behind while chasing the street kid? His tuberculosis may be beginning to act up.
• Dutch's method of approaching the Braithwaites and Bronte to retrieve Jack are quite similar: storming to them and demanding they let Jack go. He may have been more docile in his encounter with Bronte due to having less men around (too many men would have looked too conspicuous) and aware of police response, though if Bronte didn't loosen up fast enough, there may have been several dead bodies in the house sooner.
• The mission where Kieran is killed is called "Horsemen, Apocalypses", which is a clear nod to the The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Considering how Kieran dies, he's considered Death, or, at some adaptations of the work, the Headless Horseman.
  • How were the O'Driscolls able to kidnap Kieran in the first place? Well if you watch him in camp at night Kieran usually sleeps far away from the rest of the gang near the outskirts of camp ^note Justified since he was still getting death threats from the gang (joking or not) by Chapter 4, being that far from the camp lookouts or any help would have made him a sitting duck for the O'Driscolls.
• Arthur advises Dutch to bring Lenny along for the trolley heist instead of Micah, saying that Micah would make it a "massacre" instead of a "payday". In hindsight, considering the shootout they got themselves into, it would have been better to have had Micah along.
• It makes perfect sense that John would be arrested in Saint Denis instead of escaping alongside Arthur, Dutch, Bill, Javier, and Micah. Given that John is unable to swim and even seems to be afraid of water, it's likely that he hesitated while the other gang members were boarding the boat and was captured. If he had gotten on, he certainly wouldn't have survived when the boat sank.
• Dutch's war against the army in Chapter 6 was likely inspired by Hercule's revolution against the government of Guarma, Dutch believing he is similarly fighting against an equally corrupt government.
• It makes sense that Arthur would absolve Londonderry's debt after meeting his wife and kid. Considering how he lost his own lover and child, he might’ve put himself in Londonderry's shoes. And worse, if they were still alive, Arthur, who has tuberculosis, would’ve worked himself to death like Londonderry to provide for his family.
• During the mission "Red Dead Redemption", Arthur mentions John, Hosea, Mac, Davey, Jenny, Sean, Lenny, and Eagle Flies but not Kieran, which confused some players. The reason he wasn't included was not because Arthur forgot about him or didn't care, but because Dutch had nothing to do with his death, either directly or indirectly. Unlike the others (minus John because he wasn't actually dead; Dutch just misled the gang into believing that), not a speck of Kieran's blood is on Dutch's hands.
• After Grimshaw helped Arthur save her when the Foreman Brothers kidnapped her, it makes sense that Tilly would be the only one of the camp girls to remain with her and the rest of the gang while Mary-Beth and Karen deserted them.
• Inserting what is essentially the Mafia into the game's story might seem like an inclusion out of left field, but New Orleans (the city that Saint Denis is based on) actually played a large part in popularizing the mafia as we know it today. Before the 1890's, black hand contracts—essentially a form of contracted hits and kidnappings—were rampant in the city. Following the assassination of a police chief named David Hennessy getting connected to the Italian population of New Orleans, police officers stormed the French Quarter and rounded up 19 Italian-Americans thought to be connected with the murder despite there being little evidence. When the case was called as a mistrial, this would eventually lead to 11 of those 19 men getting hung after an angry mob stormed the parish prison (this would become the largest mass hanging in US history). This case, as well as the media coverage that surrounded it, helped to popularize the word "mafia", associating most Italian crimes in New Orleans to an overarching organization. Therefore, Rockstar's 1899 version of the mafia is actually far more accurate to history than one would believe at first glance, as it showcases the rise of what would eventually be the mafia that we know of today.
• Bill Williamson is the first major character that John Marston meets in the first game, calling out to him at Fort Mercer. Who is the first character to call out to John when it is revealed he survived being shot and falling off the train in the second game? It's Bill.
• Considering how cheap it is to ride the trolley (both in the game and in real life), it's hardly surprising that the gang's take from the trolley station in "Urban Pleasures" was really, really bad. Even today, New Orleans streetcars can take you all the way downtown for the ridiculously cheap price of $1.25. Most likely, Bronte knew the take was going to be awful just through general knowledge of Saint Denis public transportation and let Dutch, Arthur, and Lenny have the cash instead in the hopes that it'd get them arrested and/or killed.
• Why don’t Arthur and the Marstons abandon the gang when they have the chance to? Even if Dutch is even willing to let them go, Micah can manipulate him into thinking they have or will rat on the gang and convince him to kill them. In addition, Arthur and John both want the gang’s money before they leave.
• Why was Abigail captured by the Pinkertons? Micah may have known or suspected that Arthur, John, Abigail and Sadie were going to abandon the gang and steal their money. After the train heist seemingly left John dead, Arthur, Abigail and Sadie might have cut their losses and fled with Jack. If Micah and/or the Pinkertons wanted to keep Arthur and Sadie from escaping, they would have to take either Abigail, Jack or both.
• Why would Micah have shot Grimshaw instead of Morgan or Marston? Well, considering how she immediately guns down traitors, while Arthur first tries to make Dutch see reason whilst Marston's beef is with Dutch, it’s likely that if Micah shot any of the other two Grimshaw would have fired back.
  • Also, while Dutch probably doesn't respect Grimshaw's opinion much at this point, he probably trusts her more than John and Arthur who he actively suspects of being rats. If she sides with John and Arthur, Dutch may take her side.
• Why does Dutch still side with Micah after he shot Grimshaw? John, who he had just betrayed and left for dead, had just returned and is clearly hostile, and Arthur just took his side. Even if Dutch believed Micah was the rat, his main priority was killing John, and Arthur for siding with him. If Dutch shot Micah dead then and there, the best case scenario has John and Arthur storming off leaving Dutch with a shocked Bill and Javier and an angry Cleet and Joe to deal with. Worst case scenario, John and Arthur shoot Dutch dead as well. When he confronts Arthur later on without John, he doesn't kill him but instead admonishes both him and Micah. If John had not appeared, Micah's killing of Grimshaw may have alerted Dutch that he was the rat. And if Arthur betrayed John during the standoff and sided with Dutch, Dutch may have forgiven him.
• Why did John show up at camp despite Dutch having abandoned him? Dutch abandoned Arthur before at the oil refinery and when Arthur accused him, Dutch simply denied it without retaliating. John assumed that Dutch would've reacted as nonchalantly as he did toward Arthur, and if Arthur didn't make the mood tense, perhaps Dutch would have.
  • He also assumed Abigail and Jack were still at camp, only learning about their whereabouts from Arthur.
• What did Micah even inform the Pinkertons on? A siding from possibly the Lakay hideout, he may have set Arthur and Bill up in the dynamite robbery.
• The Pinkertons launch their assault on Beaver Hollow only moments after John returns to camp. The shot he took in his shoulder likely affected his perception so he may not have been able to avoid all preying eyes, so the Pinkertons may have spotted him and followed him back to the camp.
  • Another possibility is that they may have spotted Arthur and subtly followed him to camp on his ride there. Considering how a shootout occurred beforehand, Arthur might have not killed all of the Pinkertons stationed at Van Horn because of how they quickly left after killing Milton. Arthur might not have noticed them following him to camp due to contemplating about his entire life and decisions on the way there.
  • The most plausible one is that Micah told Milton the location of their latest hideout. Considering how Micah swayed Dutch (and by extension, his loyalists) into abandoning Abigail to die, it’s likely that this was a ploy so that the Pinkertons would successfully ambush them while they have their guns holstered and completely unprepared as it's likely that if they did go to Van Horn to rescue Abigail, they may have had lesser chances of taking down Dutch's Gang due to their preparedness when it comes to shootouts. Maybe the Pinkertons would have successfully taken down Dutch's gang had everyone not have been in a Mexican Standoff with their weapons in hand.
• When Ross takes over and assaults the camp, only Dutch, Arthur, John, Bill, Javier & Micah and his cronies are (alive and) present. Out of the 8 escapees, Arthur dies soon after and Micah and his buddies are killed in 1907, leaving only John, Javier, Bill and Dutch at large in 1911 - the members originally introduced in I. Makes you wonder whether Ross was really after the entire gang, or just those who escaped from him that one day in 1899.
• Both the High Honor Help John ending and the Low Honor Go for the Money endings end with Arthur crawling, either towards something or away from someone.
• Micah letting Arthur die of his tuberculosis instead of finishing him off in the High Honor endings seems out of character for him at first. However, given Micah's love of violence and the fact that he doesn't seem to be unhappy when John and Dutch mortally wound him in the epilogue, he probably thinks that dying in combat is the best way to go and dying from something like old age or illness is humiliating. With that in mind, him simply leaving Arthur to die from disease instead of finishing the job himself could be interpreted as his idea of Cruel Mercy.
  • It might be worth mentioning that Micah doesn't know how much longer Arthur will survive. For all he knows, Arthur could spend hours or even days paralysed on the cliffside hating himself for failing to save his gang rather than expiring in half a minute.
  • In contrast, should Arthur have been Low Honor, Micah may actually respect him for being a strong ruthless warrior like him and give him a warrior's death, or at least put him out of his misery. However, if Arthur was High Honor, Micah may think he's a pathetic, whiny bitch who isn't worth the effort to stab or the ammunition to shoot.
  • Or it may be due to fear. If Arthur is High Honor, Micah would think that in the unlikely event that Arthur recovers, he'll try to head for the Marstons and help them. If Arthur is Low Honor, Micah would think that if Arthur recovers, he'll come after him and kill him and needs to die now.
• Why does Dutch snap the way he does when dealing with Bronte? Bronte is not only a foil to Dutch, he's also better than him at Dutch's own game. Dutch is a man living an uncivilized lifestyle, yet being both educated and fairly well-read, is actually quite civilized himself. And these traits are the core of what he believes sets him apart from other gangs like the O'Driscolls. By contrast, Bronte is a man who lives a civilized lifestyle (Thus making him part of the group Dutch blames for all his and the world of 1899's problems) yet is decidedly uncivilized in manner (And not in the 'noble savage' way Dutch romanticizes), punctuating his every second word with curses and openly slandering those around him. The law pursues Dutch relentlessly, while Bronte has them practically working for him. In both lifestyle and personality he is Dutch's polar opposite, and worse: he's successful. No wonder Dutch is so paranoid about people doubting him, after seeing a man who must seem his own dark reflection living in a gaudy mansion while he can't even shake the law long enough to start his own plans, he's surely doubting himself. The nail in Bronte's own coffin was the way he handled the trolly station heist. At first it seems he did it merely to get the Van Der Linde gang arrested, but the player can discover a note in his mansion that reveals Bronte not only told the police chief to have men ready at the trolly station, but also to keep his men away from another district of the city. Reading between the lines: Bronte didn't just set Dutch's gang up as petty revenge, he used them as a distraction to carry out a job of his own. This coming after an entire game of Dutch trying to justify and make excuses for his own actions against Colm O'Driscoll. Not only did Bronte represent everything Dutch hated, but he also avoided making the same mistakes Dutch has been struggling with throughout the game. In that moment on the boat, Dutch's entire worldview is collapsing around him, because it has brought him nothing but hardship while Bronte, who took the opposite approach, is living like a king.

Chapter Epilogue

• Right before he learns Abigail ditched him, John receives and reads a telegram from Sadie inviting him on a mission. John reuniting with Sadie and partnering with her would eventually lead to them hunting down Micah, which would in turn lead to John dying at the hands of the FBI and Jack becoming an outlaw. It's almost as though Abigail is prescient.
• Why would Sadie and Charles decide to leave the country after finishing off Micah? Well, as we know, killing Micah put Agent Ross back on John's trail thus leading to the events of Red Dead Redemption. It's likely they both knew that doing this would attract Agent Ross' attention and figured it would be best to leave the United States while they still could. John didn't, and we all know how that ended for him.
• After completing the game, it becomes clear why Ross chose John as his errand boy. The members who have been confirmed to have survived 'til 1907-1908 are Tilly, Mary-Beth, Swanson, Pearson, Trelawny, Uncle, Sadie, Charles, John, Abigail, and Jack (+ John's targets (Bill, Dutch, Javier), who obviously aren't gonna hunt themselves down). The first four have gone straight and since they are non-action types, likely haven't caused any trouble after the gang broke up. Mary-Beth and Swanson in particular are apparently famous. Trelawny appears to still be running cons and such but, like the aforementioned, he isn't really a fighter. Uncle, Abigail, and Jack don't cause any trouble. Sadie says she plans on heading down to South America and she is something of a Death Seeker, meaning Ross would have nothing to blackmail her with even if he could find her. Ross is shown to consider Indigenous Americans savages, so he may not believe that he could control Charles (who, like Sadie, leaves the country but heads north to Canada instead of south). But John is a completely different case. Not only is it said several times that John's impulsiveness means he cannot stay under the radar, he left an impressive trail of bodies during his Roaring Rampage of Revenge, and he has something he doesn't want to lose (i.e. Abigail and Jack). And that's not even counting the possible feats of badassery the player can perform in gameplay!
  • Adding to the above, John's Roaring Rampage of Revenge is probably what gave Ross the idea to send him after the others in the first place. Without context, it's not much of a plan to just send an ex-gunslinger after his former associates with no resources and hope he's good enough to take them and the entirety of their new gangs down but after seeing how John went through Micah's gang Ross knew that John could do it.
• So, Marston loses someone he considers a family member to a Jerkass False Friend, and then later avenges said close one by hunting down the killer. Are we speaking about John or Jack?
• The mission "American Venom" has several parallers with the final (main) mission of RDR 1. In both missions, a group of 4 people is heavily affected by one member's past catching up to them.
  • Joe, like Uncle, bravely takes up arms to protect his friend after the past of said friend (Micah and John, respectively) comes knocking. Neither last very long.
  • Micah ends up in a stand-off with former allies (one of whom he trusted) before being shot multiple times by them. The main difference is that unlike John, Micah took a hostage.
  • Dutch and Jack are both depressed, well-read outcasts who believe the life of an outlaw is better than it actually is. Dutch survives the encounter and resurfaces some years later, something Jack also goes through after the Beecher's Hope massacre.
  • The exception seems to be Cleet and Abigail, but they do have one similarity in that neither of them approve of the lifestyle of their associate, and their attempts to keep them in check haven't exactly been successful. (Cleet can't stomach the idea of Micah killing indiscriminately; Abigail doesn't want John causing trouble for the Marstons.)
• In the epilogue, Abigail constantly is on John's case for grabbing a gun and fighting, which only brings them more trouble. John protests by asking what choice did he have, but Abigail counters that there is always a choice. Come the ending of Red Dead Redemption 1, when John is perfectly able to run away with Abigail and Jack, but chooses not to — instead deciding to make one final stand.
• Why does Ross believe that John alone is enough to bring down his old gang along with their underlings? Because John has already cemented his status as a one-man army in Ross's eye by killing another one-man army, Micah.
• The most likely reason Bill moved to New Austin was because of Dutch's original plan for the gang to retreat there after the ferry job. After all, since Dutch is the smartest man he knows, going to NA is also "smart" since he came up with it. Depending on his mental state, he may even believe getting there makes him smarter than Dutch.
  • There's also the fact that, in-universe, New Austin is considered the last remnant of the Wild West, where crime, bandits, and disease are rampant. Even a dunderhead like Bill knows that setting his gang and base of operations in any other state would be a bad idea.
• Given that there's 7-8 years between Chapter 6 and the Epilogue, it shouldn't come as a surprise that, by the time that John can use the satchel, there isn't any food, as for the most part, the food would have been spoiled, including the canned goods. However, it's just as likely that, while on the run, John, Jack, and Abigail ate the provisions that Arthur had placed in it. This means that it is possible that, even after his death, Arthur kept John and his family alive during the times that the Pinkertons were after them.
• In one of the High Honor endings, the one where you help John, Arthur gets a final look at the beautiful sunrise before expiring from tuberculosis in a Big Sleep. This kinda symbolizes something if you think for a moment: If Stars Are Souls, then the sun must be one gigantic star at the center of the Solar System by scientific standards. Now picture this ending: As Arthur is taking his last breaths while glimpsing at the sun, we see that it's rising up from the earth, in the same symbolic way that his star/sun-bright soul is rising up out of his earthly body and ascending into heaven. Simply beautiful in a symbolic sense of heartwarming.
• Why are John, Charles and Sadie allowed to brazenly execute Cleet in broad daylight? Sadie has made a name for herself as a big-shot bounty hunter (the first bounty we see her do is in Strawberry) so the populace would just assume he is another of her bounties.
• The forced choice of Cleet's execution, the senseless death of a likely decent man who had no further use to his killers, could be Foreshadowing for John's later death. His very public hanging or shooting would likely have drawn the FBI's attention, which then led them to Micah.
• While it is still very cruel, considering that her paranoia about John's family suffering, Sadie might have executed Cleet to prevent him from informing the authorities about John after being freed. He was one of the few enemies of John who knew his identity and location. This kill, of course, wasn't enough; perhaps she should have pulled a Micah and massacred Strawberry a second time.
• During the sidequest, when you come to visit the graves of your fallen comrades, you notice that a lot of the graves are mounded shallow burials and are at low altitude; Arthur's grave, however, is on a mountaintop at high altitude and is more like a six-foot burial, with the fill left level with the ground and covered with grass (and with flowers planted near his gravestone if Arthur was played honorably). Now think for a moment: The total funeral cost in 1899 was $69,750 in expenditures, and 81 cents per capita, and the total cost of funeral objects was about $2,092, while the average cost of the funeral benefit was 75 cents per member. If you can recall, many of the Van der Linde gang members (and Eagle Flies) have been killed due to unforeseen circumstances, and many could afford little or none at all to cover their funeral costs due to a few heists gone wrong (which explains their shallow burials). But during the final heist, this time of a U.S. Army train, Arthur and his gang are able to pull it off successfully (albeit not without a little incident on the way) and, with Arthur knowing that he was going to die of tuberculosis while getting the Marston family to safety, he is able to hand over the loot to his remaining gang, making sure that the money would be enough for them and Charles to cover the costs and benefits of a funeral reserved for one member in case said member dies in a special way. In other words, Arthur is helping his friends to cover his own funeral costs and benefits reserved for himself in the case of his own Heroic Sacrifice, which explains his grave being a fancy six-foot burial on the mountaintop.
  • Another thing of note to consider: In 2018, the average North American traditional funeral "costs between $7,000 and $10,000", which "includes the services at the funeral home, burial in a cemetery, and the installation of a headstone." This could mean that at the time of RDR2 (1899), the average funeral cost was between somewhere in the $232 price range and somewhere in the $331 price range. By the time that the last train heist in Chapter 6 is done, the gang had a total of about $40,000 (equivalent to $1,210,153.41 in 2018) in the savings box; which is another reason for Arthur to help his friends cover his own funeral costs and benefits with a little bit of money out of the $40k reserved for him in case he dies.
• If you can recall, Arthur was 36 at the time of his death, while John was 38. Looking back on it, it kinda traces back to Elton John's song "Candle in the Wind", which, according to lyricist Bernie Taupin, is a song about "the idea of fame or youth or somebody being cut short in the prime of their life [...] how we glamorize death, how we immortalize people." Given that the song was written about Marilyn Monroe (and later Diana, Princess of Wales; both of them were 36 at the time of their deaths (and Diana was a Welsh legend), just like Arthur is), this song is Harsher in Hindsight when it could fit in the notion that both Arthur and John lived their lives like candles in the Western wind, and due to some unforeseen circumstances like tuberculosis (Arthur) or violence/betrayal (John), their candles have burned out long before their legends ever will.
  • Another thing of note: Arthur's death at 36 kinda mirrors that of Doc Holliday, a gunfighter who befriended Wyatt Earp, who was best known for his role in the events leading up to and following the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (which happened to be on October 26, 1881, the same date that RDR2 would be released 137 years later), and who also died of tuberculosis at age 36. Suddenly it all makes sense.]]
• Dutch shooting Micah instead of John is foreshadowed a few seconds earlier. When John asks why Dutch is there, he replies with, "same as you, I suppose." Dutch has no reason to believe that John is coming to join forces with Micah, so it's clear that he is also there with the intention of killing Micah eventually. Perhaps he is only joining forces with Micah in the first place so he can kill him with betrayal later.
• In the Epilogue, John Marston has the possibility to encounter Sheriff Freeman, a lawman fixated on giving out clear-cut vigilante-styled justice, executing an outlaw dropped off on his door step. In Online mode, which is set before the main game, one mission involves you having to save Freeman from a pack of violent outlaws. Perhaps the trauma of being made a captive made him harsher as a result.]]
• Sheriff Freeman's strict-bordering-on-oppressive style of law enforcement in Tumbleweed can be read as a metaphor for the reasons behind the town's downfall. Though it's never really gone into, the town's location appears to have been based primarily on security more than anything else — it's on a raised plateau surrounded by rocks on all sides, with the only convenient entry-point being an easily-guarded bridge over a canyon. Unfortunately, what this gives the town in security, it lacks in accessibility; when the railroad comes, it can't reach Tumbleweed and so bypassed it, gradually leading to the town's slow decline, until by the original game it's an abandoned Ghost Town. Sheriff Freeman, meanwhile, is an honest and well-meaning lawman who is so determined to keep the town safe from the criminal element that he's overly authoritarian, leading to a climate of fear that is in some ways just as bad as the lawlessness he fears and encouraging people to move elsewhere, where things are more free. In both cases, an over-emphasis on security ends up strangling the life out of the town.
• In the first game, the Montana River is too wide and deep for Marston to be able to cross it into Big Valley, which means that the Owanjila Dam is either completely broke or had to open its gates to relieve itself. More evidence of this is that the Aurora basin in 1899/1907 is just a lake of stagnated water, but in 1911/1914 it's actively fed by a stream coming down from the mountains.
• Dutch, Bill and Javier's particular animosity towards John in I is given another layer in II when before the gang dissolved, they all believed that John was the traitor working for the Pinkertons. So seeing John working with the government years later to hunt them down (even if John was forced to do it) confirmed in their minds that John was the actual traitor all along and not Micah, with Dutch's increased animosity towards him with him perhaps believing he shot the wrong man in 1907.
• How is Micah able to No-Sell dead eye while fighting John in American Venom, but couldn't even keep up with a dying Arthur in Red Dead Redemption? Well, keep in mind that Micah is shown to have been one of the least fit members of the gang in 1899, with his sizable gut being emphasized while in Guarma in particular. But by 1907, Micah has lost all that weight (perhaps as a consequence of remaining on Mount Hagen for so long), meaning that he's likely able to move a lot faster than before, and thus can really use his gunslinging skills to the best of his ability now that he's no longer literally weighed down.
• "American Venom" (the song) plays when assaulting Micah's camp, and is a remixed version of the main theme from I. When it does signify that John Marston is back in action in order to avenge the fall of the Van der Linde Gang, it is also signifies that the assault on Micah's camp leads to the chains of events leading to John's death.

Stranger

• How did Arthur ultimately deal with the representative from Roanoke Fuel Company in Butcher Creek? [Same way he deals with most people who cross him, he gave him a dose of lead poisoning.
• Emmet Granger throwing a knife instead of drawing his gun during his duel seems stupid until you realize that he's likely done that in the past and won, and to his detriment thought it would work again.
• Dorothea, the suffragette you meet in Saint Denis, isn’t actually that far off base when she says that they’ll elect a woman president within ten years of getting the right to vote. The 19th Amendment granting women the right to vote was ratified in 1919 and that year Woodrow Wilson suffered a stroke that left him unable to do the job. His wife, Edith, basically was President for a year and a half until his term ended. She wasn’t elected but Mrs Wilson is still the closest thing that the US has had to a female president.

Fridge Horror

All

• Micah was trying to lure Jack away from camp multiple times. Was he going to molest or murder him?
• Had the gang managed to go west, it's doubtful it'd been a much better place for them; Sure, much of the drama and deaths would have been avoided, but there's nothing there. The land is too barren to grow anything on, water is scarce, the area is filled with gangs and Armadillo and it's surrounding areas ard ravaged by various diseases. Sure, there may be something further west, but the harsh surroundings could have done a number on the gang's health and morale. They'd be "free" but at what cost?

Chapter 1- 3

• As The Mighty Jingles pointed out, Micah's idea of a good camp location was a dry riverbed – meaning no water for a group with upwards of twenty people in it, including a child. If it rained hard enough, then suddenly there'd be "a lot of water in a very short time". Jingles failed to notice the poor sightlines, which would allow the gang's foes to sneak up on them but still leave their smoke and lights visible from miles off. In fact, there's even a forest to provide a backdrop for the lights in the day; at least the rest of the time, the gang actually hides in or at least is concealed by the forest, so one can't see much of anything. Everything about the original location is ill-considered and a bad idea, when there's a perfectly suitable campsite nearby that Arthur and Charles only happen across because they need to rescue the patriarch of the German family that originally settled the riverbed from the Lemoyne Raiders. Exactly what you'd expect from ol' Micah.
• The previous game begun with John, Ross and Fordham disembarking a ferry with the implication that John was being brought back to Blackwater after a trip across the Flat Iron lake. Rhodes is almost directly across from Blackwater - and Pearson runs a store there. Not to mention that Tilly now lives in Saint Denis, located not too far from Rhodes.
• Had Arthur not gone after Thomas Downes, Thomas would have succumbed to his illness anyways but Arthur would never have gotten sick and thus wouldn't have his change of heart. Edith and Archie would still be screwed, but Arthur would not have been there to help them later on (assuming he's High Honor).
• The Downes ranch has 4 beds; 2 next to each other meaning it's the one Thomas and Edith use, and two smaller beds — one of which has a small amount of blood on it. Did they have an another child? Did this child have tuberculosis?
  • Which leads to a massive Tear Jerker — if that child had tuberculosis, s/he may have accidentally passed it to Thomas as he tried to take care of them.
  • They also happened to have a dog in their ranch. What happened to that dog when they were forced to sell the ranch?
• During Mary Linton’s first quest you are tasked with rescuing Jamie from a Cult. Once you do, Arthur chastises him for being foolish enough to fall into the cult and do things like give them money and mindlessly follow their leader. The thing is, that sounds a lot like what Dutch does, meaning Arthur is in a similar situation as him. Dutch has a collection of people who are to gullible to realize he’s manipulating them or feel obligated to stay with him for one reason or another. He also displays many other cult leader qualities like getting mad when people question him/he thinks they question him and has a thing for women way younger than him.

Chapter 4- 6

• While Arturo was likely shot by an O'Driscoll aiming for him or Arthur, it's also possible that Sadie accidentally shot him while firing back at the O'Driscolls.
  • Alternatively, considering that Sadie's a ruthless bitch and Arturo now knows at least part of their plan to break John free, she might have purposely shot him to get rid of a potential witness.
• Charles Chatenay was certainly a hilarious character in his missions, wasn’t he? Well, in his final mission, in an attempt to distract pursuers, he dresses as a prostitute and kisses Arthur on the mouth. Remember that by this point Arthur is dying from tuberculosis and since the disease is transmitted through the air via cough/spit/sneeze, it’s quite possible Charles had just inadvertently doomed himself by contracting the disease.
  • Look closely, he kissed him on the cheek, Considering how Charlotte can be seen 8 years after she kissed Arthur on the same spot and didn’t get infected, it’s unlikely Chatenay got infected.
  • Also TB generally isn't spread through kissing (unlike, say, the cold or the flu) because TB isn't in saliva. You need to breathe in particles from an infected person's lungs that, as already mentioned, are only expelled when they cough, sneeze, or talk/sing. Châtenay could have drank from the same glass as Arthur, eaten using the same utensils, and shared a toothbrush with him without contracting TB.
• Since Mark Johnson's son and wife were effectively without a family patriarch, how likely is it, that like Marston, Johnson's wife would die from grief and leave their son vengeful?
• Bill mentions being a cavalryman in the Indian Wars and being a Shell-Shocked Veteran. He attempts to mention some events that left him traumatized, but Dutch ignores it because he carries Noble Savage style beliefs due to being aware that, well, the American government were the bad guys. What was the most recent conflict between the U.S Cavalry and Native Americans by 1899 and the only one that Bill would've been old enough to serve at? The Wounded Knee Massacre of 1890.
• A young boy in Strawberry asks Arthur to find his dog for him, saying she is the only family he has left. You bring the dog back to him... and he lives in the house Micah went in to retrieve his guns, shooting the couple living there in the process. Micah (and by accomplice, Arthur) killed the boy's parents.
  • Also takes on Fridge because the boy is essential like Jack. His father escaped the outlaw-life, build a family in a nice little town, tending to his animals, only for the past showing up at his doorstep and killing both him and his wife, leaving the son by himself.
• Edith Downes has signs of untreated syphilis. The spots and boils in her face are a symptom. No doubt a keepsake of her job and her son Archie probably will be soon on his own, since syphilis back then was deadly.

Epilogue

• It is implied that, given their general instability, disposition and some aspects of their clothing, the Skinner Brothers end up being absorbed into Dutch's new gang come 1911, when the first game takes place. Further proof that the once-noble Dutch has completely lost it if he considers these dudes so low, violent, sadistic and deranged to be worthy recruits.
• Better hope that Edgar Ross will only be after the combatant members of the gang, or else Reverend Swanson, Mary-Beth, Tilly, Pearson and the others may get an unwanted visit from him soon.
  • Considering Ross was apparently ignorant/apathetic to the fact that Uncle was a member of the gang, it is possible he only cared about high-profile members of the gang like John and Dutch.
  • Also, while Ross was an authoritarian Knight Templar, he's not a complete maniac who believes that every minor crime deserves death. Say what you will about his ethics, objectively speaking he is entirely right to focus on bringing down Dutch, Bill, Javier and even John, because for all their fine talk they were still violent criminals who ran rampant across the west killing and robbing with near-impunity. A preacher in unfortunate thrall to substance addiction, a cook and some pickpockets/prostitutes aren't exactly in the same league.
  • As others have pointed out, Uncle is left alone at the ranch even though he too was a member of the gang, so it's possible that non-combat members are ignored. A glory-hound like Ross probably only cares about the well-known members. Abigail and Jack are the exceptions because they can be used as leverage against John.
• We are never given the details of what happened (happens?) to John and Abigail's unseen daughter. Now remember that Beecher's Hope is right next to Tall Trees, which is Skinner territory... Maybe she saw a cute animal and chased it into the woods, never to return. She also has no gravestone anywhere in I, so it's possible that the Marstons never found her, or even worse, did not find enough of her to bury. It would also horrifyingly explain why the Skinners are gone by the time of the first game: maybe John killed them all.
  • It's also entirely possible the cougar just outside Beecher's Hope got her. After all, it spawns right by the gate.
• The kidnapping of Jack Marston by the Braithwaite and Papa Bronte brings a horrifying thought to mind: The events that kickstarted Red Dead Redemption must’ve brought up harrowing memories of this kidnapping; what makes it worse is that unlike this kidnapping, John no longer has the luxury of relying on his gang to back him up and the kidnappers are the Federal Government!
  • Not to mention the bad memories the kidnapping probably brought back to Arthur. At that point, John is still very distant from Jack and Arthur is the one who’s helping Abigail with him. There’s an encounter at camp in chapter 2 where you give her money to buy him clothes. He’ll ask you to take him fishing again and Abigail says he keeps asking her about it too. One of the greet dialogues for her is Arthur telling her to let him know if they need anything. Towards the end of the main story, it’s reveled that Arthur’s son Isaac and baby mama Eliza died in a robbery over something as silly as $10. Arthur loved Isaac but couldn’t be there for the day to day because of his line of work but financially provided for him and came to see him every few months. One day he showed up to visit and found their graves. Going back and playing after knowing that, it’s not hard to see that Jack and Abigail were sort of Replacement Goldfish for them. He was trying to provide for them and protect them in the way he didn’t for Isaac and Eliza. So poor Arthur who had lost a son before had his sort of surrogate son kidnapped not knowing where he was.
• In Redemption 1, it's mentioned a few times that John's been somewhat absent from his son's life, something that clearly gave Jack some Daddy Issues and his "Well Done, Son" Guy mentality. Be honest, how much time have you spent on Beecher's Hope after finishing the epilogue, instead of just disappearing from the ranch for several in-game days, weeks or even months completely unannounced? Since the ranch offers very little in terms of gameplay, the player is actually encouraged to leave John's family behind to do many of the activities the game offers you. So the next time you're playing Blackjack in Rhodes, remember that Abigail and/or Jack could be worried sick that John may have decided to abandon them forever, or has died on his journeys, and that you're feeding the insecurities of an already troubled kid.
  • It doesn’t help that John constantly belittles Jack for his love of reading in the two Red Dead Redemption games by calling his books stupid or otherwise implying that Jack wastes time in his books.
• The final mission makes Jack's eventual fate even more Harsher in Hindsight than it already was. As mentioned above, his Evil Counterpart is Dutch. Both are depressed, well-read and generally intelligent people who idealize the outlaw lifestyle but are also tempted by the upcoming modernization of the west. Both have issues with the "leader" of their group (Dutch's distrust of Micah, Jack's Daddy Issues) whose death triggers their Cynicism Catalyst, and both disappear for a few years before coming back feeling they have no reason to live. While Jack with good honor is a classic example of Generation Xerox, a bad honor Jack didn't Turn Out Like His Father; no, he turned out just like Dutch.
• Josiah Trelawny, the gang's resident quirky City Slicker con-man, is nowhere to be found in the epilogue. Maybe he and his family indeed got the hell out of there, but here are some things to consider. Bounty hunters knew of his association with the Van der Linde gang, and the Pinkerton Agency arrested Strauss and killed him while in custody. Yes. It's very possible Trelawny was in fact killed off-screen by 1907.
  • Similarly, while Sadie and Charles are implied to have left the country, it is still very possible that they were tracked down by the FBI and arrested and/or killed.
  • As is with Karen.
  • I don't think Bounty hunters, much like Ross, would care about the fact Trelawny (and other non action gang members like Pearson and Tilly) was apart of the gang, to them, he's just some eccentric conman/magician who's association with the gang was limited to once in a while.
• Dutch has likely also encountered the Skinner Brothers. Dutch is reported to be alive in a 1907 newspaper article due to a sighting of him in Tall Trees, coincidentally around the same time the Skinner Brothers have migrated to the area and caused mayhem. Did he lure them there or even start working with them?
• Gertrude Braithwaite, the Braithwaite's insane, inbred relative, is locked in an outhouse at the back of their estate. However, she is clearly fed and watered. By the epilogue, she has long since died of starvation. The Van Der Linde gang killed all of the Braithwaites except a few of their hired gunmen - likely including anyone who knew about the "family secret" and who fed her. Did the gang inadvertently kill Gertrude?

Fridge Logic

See Red Dead Redemption 2

---