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Opinionated Guide to Avatar: The Last Airbender
Yeah
98.228.215.95
Crowley
Morgikit
Glad to see this liveblog. Any flaws that Atla may have, it's still a great series and a wonderful addition to Western Animation.
napalm92
Thank you for a more in depth review of ATLA. I will do the same for myself but seeing other opinions is fun.
napalm92
I too wasn't happy with the pilot episodes. I thought "this show is okay..." but like you, I'm glad I stuck with it. I started watching solely based on the recommendations of people online, and decided to check it out. The first 5 episodes (I count this as two episodes, not one) didn't do anything for me. Episode 6 was where it picked up for me.
BonsaiForest
I think the reason they have blue eyes is because they're waterbenders and blue is associated with water. As to why non-benders have them as well, who knows.
RainbowDust
Morgikit
Strangly enough, I do agree with your opinion on Aang. He was taking the 100 years asleep thing a little too well.
Codafett
ManwiththePlan
Korval
Morgikit
Liking this very much so far. I do agree with alot of the opinions you've voiced to date. Looking forward to more!
Ghilz
I consider this the first episode that didn't suck. I think the way the geishas were about to throw them in the water to be eaten was excessively harsh, and that type of barbarism is one thing I don't like about "ancient times" settings, but other than that, I have much the same complaints you have and the same compliments. It was still a cartoonish episode, but it was an improvement over the previous ones.
BonsaiForest
One thing I like about this show: character development that sticks. Which is more than I can say for other shows where the heroes keep relearning the same lessons.
Morgikit
Sigh. Misogyny means a hatred or dislike towards women. Sexist means adhering to traditional gender roles. Now which sounds more like what Sokka was doing? Katara even says it in the first episode!
Bourne~Endeavor
BonsaiForest
Whats with spelling comedy with a K. Is this some sort of meme or something? More irritating than anything lol
From the looks of that constant mispelling, I take it you don't like the series humor?
As for the explaining metal thing, I have a hypothesis: Because it's not obvious
to the viewer. Metal is found in the earth. In rocks, which earth benders can bend. Metals are minerals, so you'd expect earthbending to work on them like any other minerals (earth, rocks, sand). Heck why can they bend
coal but not metal? While both are minerals, coals used to be plants, to me the not bending metal thing does need explaining, as it seems completely arbitrary. Why are coals earth but metals are not? What about plaster? Mortar? Cement? Do bones count as earth? It's mostly calcium, like limestone! Heck, why do CRYSTALS count as earth, but not metals? What about metal crystal, like gallium, can an Earthbender bend those?
Heck, why can Firebenders bend lightning? That's not fire. Has nothing to do with it.
So to me the metal speech, while a bit out of place, to me it IS necessary, because bending has completely arbitrary rules that do need explaining, as none of it is based on logic. The writers do need to explain the artificial limits put on their superpowers, because no viewer can be expected to know them.
Ghilz
(edited by: Ghilz)
Korval
Emperordaein
This is the first episode I considered good, cartoonish as it was. I saw good elements of the show, but didn't yet see why it was considered so great. But I consider episode 6 to be when the show started to pick up.
BonsaiForest
Maybe it's because I've seen a lot worse, but I didn't think the comedy was that awful. Though in retrospect, I get what you're saying about Katara. She's kind of a Mary Sue, even more so than the guy who can bend every element. And the plot of this episode does come across as "good triumphs because evil is dumb".
Morgikit
Padding.....Korval, how exactly is character interaction, giving us reason to care about them, padding? Are you saying that you would just cut out all nonvital conversations? How would that work?
Codafett
I can see the Katara thing. The show runners probably went overboard with the female empowerment thing.
napalm92
And thus we have the first iteration on the last airbender facts of the verse: the Spirits are either useless or total jerks.
napalm92
Emperordaein
(edited by: Emperordaein)
Not really, come Avatar Day, we see Avatar Kyoshi take possession of Aang, so there's really no reason Roku can't do it and go kick ass...
Ghilz
Korval
Ghilz
This was the first really good episode, in my opinion, even with the flaws you pointed out. And yes, I too thought the temple guards were technically supposed to be on the avatar's side, though their behavior didn't surprise me.
BonsaiForest
Ghilz
(edited by: Ghilz)
Emperordaein
I agree with your rant about Katara's hypocrisy.
Codafett
I'm surprised you didn't touch on Aang getting subdued by a common net. And pretty spot on about Katara and the inanity of Zutara.
napalm92
Jet wasn't MEANT to be a sympathetic villain. None of the characters treated him sympathetically when they realized he was a crazed terrorist. There's difference between having a sympathetic backstory/motives and actually being sympathetic, y'know.
ManwiththePlan
This was definitely the episode where they started to show more sides to Sokka and improve him as a character with admirable traits. Not a great episode, but this was the third one I considered good.
BonsaiForest
Good on Sokka but this does raise the Katara annoyance. And Aang seems to be weirdly non existent here.
napalm92
BonsaiForest
If they really needed Sokka and Katara to argue, they coulda made Sokka finally be fed up with Katara's crap.
napalm92
At that point, Azula is only 11 years. How the hell does this count as being a "woman"?
ManwiththePlan
Korval
I actually missed Azula next to Iroh. Anyway, I totally agree that this was the episode that grew the beard for the show. If I were to introduce my brother to this cartoon, I'd probably start with this episode.
BonsaiForest
"it was meant to be" oh god. They used a Shyamalan.
napalm92
BonsaiForest
Your link at the top 404'd
Ghilz
Fixed it. Thanks.
Korval
The Earth Kingdom is huge. They haven't been conquered because there are plenty of other, less crummy places to conquer, ones that don't exist on the foot of an active volcano.
Peteman
Reminding me of this makes dislike this ep alot. The Universe hating on 1 character is not always funny.
napalm92
AzorAhai
DoktorvonEurotrash
I also liked the fact that Aang showed human flaws, and Sokka and even Katara got pissed. It made all three heroes human, and it was the sort of realistic characterization I wish more cartoons had. I wouldn't consider this a favorite episode, but it was definitely one of the good ones.
BonsaiForest
Emperordaein
Then why write into the series that he burns her at all? If you're going to write characters making significant mistakes into the series, at least try to make some of those mistakes have actual long-term consequences.
Korval
Emperordaein
JtheDrafter
The human body is mostly made up of water, using water to replace damaged tissue makes sense.
JusticeMan
Scardoll
Peteman
Ghilz
(edited by: Ghilz)
I agree that this episode didn't show healing for the impressive power it should realistically be. Not to mention how much use healing will be to Katara as she and her friends fight a war.
DoktorvonEurotrash
I agree with your assement of Katara. She is waaaay too skilled to have only scratched the surface of Water Bending.
Codafett
napalm92
ManwiththePlan
Wackd
Wackd
I guess the problem was that the writers were putting too much into episodes to devote time to showing her getting stronger. Which sucks since stupid stuff in "The Great Divide" or "The Fortune Teller" could've easily been taken out to make more room for something important like that.
ManwiththePlan
Bourne~Endeavor
napalm92
BTW, I'll be taking a short break from the series. I'm somewhere in the middle of writing Season 3 (and editing season 2), and I want to get that one pretty tight before I start posting season 2. I'll resume daily updates on Monday of next week.
Korval
Ghilz
I think Ghilz explained what I was going to say. This Balance is the Moon Spirit keeping the Ocean Spirit in check. If the Moon Spirit is gone, then the Ocean Spirit will go out of control. It's similar to in Ultima VII: The Serpent Isle Chaos and Order Serpents being controlled by the Earth Serpent. When the Earth Serpent was removed by Exodus, the Order and Chaos Serpents went out of control.
Emperordaein
I can accept that. So why doesn't Iroh just say, "Zhao, if you kill the Moon Spirit, the Ocean Spirit may go crazy and kill us all!" That seems more likely to get a reasonable response (either that, or Zhao'd kill the Ocean Spirit too) rather than talking about "the balance."
Korval
Ghilz
(edited by: Ghilz)
Besides, I doubt Iroh suspected that annoying the ocean spirit would result in Koizilla there. Just that bad things would happen.
SomeColorMage
75.104.128.55
Daigerus
Emperordaein
What does "Komedy" even mean? Is it supposed to be insulting to the show's sense of humor, 'cause I don't get it.
ManwiththePlan
Zhao was promoted to Admiral in the episode "The Blue Spirit". Aang could have learned Zhao's name and rank at some point during that altercation.
OnoreBakaSama
Greener223224
Codafett
You're wrong on alot of things. Zhao was always intended to be offed in season one since the conception of the series, Zuko always wanted his father's love (his honor was just an excuse he made to himself), and Azula in "The Storm" was ALWAYS AZULA. Why would they include her with Iroh and Zhao (two other established characters) if she was just an extra. And I think she DID look a bit younger in that flashback due to how her face was drawn.
ManwiththePlan
Wackd
ManwiththePlan
And also...Azula was visibly wearing a crown on her head during her cameo in The Storm. And she was giving an evil smile aglong with Zhao. She was Zuko's evil sister from the start.
ManwiththePlan
Nohbody
Ugh, that last sentence came out all wrong. I hope the meaning got through, at least. :(
Nohbody
BonsaiForest
Emperordaein
This episode started off season 2 great, and also established a higher quality of storytelling in the process. I thought it did a great job of kicking things off, showing extra character development, establishing a new threat, and explaining things, all in one.
BonsaiForest
About the top-knot cutting; I always understood it as the two of them cutting ties to the Fire Nation. Of course Zuko still wants Ozai to accept him, but at least for the time being he's on the run, so... you know. What with Ozai declaring him a failure and Iroh a traitor.
85.78.251.136
Kalaong
It is especially important, since it implies Zuko is over honor, the one thing that has kept him going.
ideae
This is where your guide started to descend into pure nitpicking for me.
Codafett
Ghilz
(edited by: Ghilz)
Korval
Nice point although Oma & Shu ''do'" get screwed over at the end. In retrospect it does seem their story was a shakespearen tragedy along your lines. Teens given great gift for love, squander it on yiffing, one winds up dead, learns mistake and founds city. Pretty deep if you ask me.
JusticeMan
I really hate King Bumi as a character. This episode was okay, though. It was neat seeing a town we'd seen in season 1 return and be recognizable, yet heavily changed for the worse. So kudos to them for their demonstration of how war and conquest changes things.
BonsaiForest
I have to agree, that it's painfully obvious that Bumi wasn't going to join the group. 3 teenagers and an 112 year old man....creepy.
Codafett
The ep forshadowed Toph,Bloodbending, the "Seperation is Illusion" theme used by The Guru and Lion-Tortoise, and Aang's spirirt powers. Not at all "useless."
JusticeMan
GeneralNerd
Think of the Screaming Bird as symbolic of this episode. Sometimes the mysterious thing is in truth ridiculous. And sometimes it's a megaorganism screwing with causality.
Kalaong
I thought the redneck swamp waterbenders were awesome. But that's considering how close I live to the southern swamps of the US. From my POV they got the creepy , mystic, yet utterly ridiculous nature of the area right.
MurkyMuse
I do like the flashback because this is our first REAL glimpse of what a fully realized avatar is capable of (we saw a bit when Roku possessed Aang) and it's rather amazing, when you think about it.
Ghilz
I HATED this episode. I found it totally annoying, hated the plot, and I don't like "on trial" plots at all. And total silliness on a show like this really annoys me. I'm actually shocked you like it.
BonsaiForest
I'm going to pretend that by being at the right place at the right time, it opened up whatever chakras Aang needed for it to work more or less at will.
Peteman
Even though we've already established that clocks (and sundials) don't exist in this world.
Call me stupid when has it been mentioned Sundials don't exist? They have
solar calendars so why not sundials? And with sundials, hours are not hard to create (and have existed in 24h format since ancient greece)
I assume you refer to
The Northern Air Temple To which I point out that Sokka was not impressed by a device that could tell time, but rather by the fact that this device was a
candle (and thus worked indoors, unlike a sundial)
The Mechanist: Come the pulley system must be oiled before dark.
Sokka (approaching the candles): Wait, how can you tell the time from that thing? The notches all look the same.
>The Mechanist: The candle will tell us. Watch.
(The candle flame snaps four times in a row.)
Sokka: You put spark powder in the candle!
The Mechanist: Four flashes, so it's exactly four hours past midday, or, as I call it, four o'candle!
In fact, the scene would hint that sundials do exist, otherwise why would Sokka care about the notches being the same (unlike a sundial, where they are numbered)
AFAIK there's not a shred of evidence that sundials don't exist, and quite the opposite in fact.
Ghilz
(edited by: Ghilz)
Kalaong
Codafett
BonsaiForest
A western in Asia? Sergio Leone's spaghetti western A Fistful of Dollars is directly based on Kurosawa's Yojimbo, a movie set in feudal Japan. Zuko Alone bears a close resemblance to both. Man, you need to watch more movies.
Scardoll
Ghilz
(edited by: Ghilz)
Korval
98.92.72.134
Korval
Emperordaein
Kalaong
You know, for a guy that complains about padding and pacing, your ideal version of this show and all your complaints being resolved would lead to the most overly serious, rushed and passionless show.
Codafett
Bourne~Endeavor
Sifu is the Chinese version of sensei
70.72.77.124
98.92.72.134
plus why would she even think they were still there
70.72.77.124
Ghilz
"If she HAD stuck around to attack Zuko and Iroh, I bet you'd say she was being to obvious."
Because attacking an enemy when they are at their weakest is certainly not Azula's style. No, Azula's the kind of villain who
likes giving her enemies a sporting chance and would never kick someone when they're down.
All I'm asking for is consistency. Azula does not seem the type of character to ignore a weakened enemy.
My point is that, while she did escape, that doesn't mean she should have simply disappeared into the aether. She's found her quarry; why isn't she stalking them?
It's too easily accepted that she just fled and isn't a problem for the immediate future. Especially after having been pretty close to omniscient in the last episode. If she can track the stray hairs from a flying beast while riding a train, it is strange that she would be unable to tell that Zuko and Iroh are still in that abandoned village.
I'm not saying that Azula absolutely
would have stayed; odds are, she considers Zuko to be a lower priority than Aang. But Zuko just ignores the possibility that she might show up and kill him and Iroh in the middle of the night.
"How do you propose Zuko travel with a heavily injured Iroh?"
My point is that Zuko is operating under episodic logic. Azula was a problem last episode. This episode, she's not a problem, even though she was last seen in the area. Because that was last episode.
I don't know about you, but injured Iroh or no, I wouldn't want to stick around in a place where Azula might be lurking about, just waiting for when I fall asleep to shoot me full of lightning. Traveling with an injured man would be hazardous, but not as hazardous as having a pissed-off Azula in the region.
Zuko staying in the area only makes sense if Zuko knows for a fact that Azula's simply not going to be a problem.
Korval
Kalaong
PataHikari
98.92.72.134
Emperordaein
Ghilz
Korval
It was funny to the audience, a lot of people found t funny.
PataHikari
Honestly, you guys, you're getting pretty worked up about this. It's just Korval's opinion, even if he's nitpicking. Going "WHEN WILL THE NITPICKING END," well...
poshiyoshi
^ "It's just his opinion." Laziest. Stock Excuse. Ever.
ManwiththePlan
I too thought the joke Toph made was mildly amusing, and a nice character moment for her. In fact, I like seeing her make jokes about her blindness. It didn't bother me at all, quite the opposite.
BonsaiForest
DrDougsh
It was a joke dude. Seriously it was just a joke. I get that you don't like Toph, but that was clearly just a gag. Stop acting like humor is the worst part of this show, it's what gives it a soul.
Codafett
I agree that it's great to see Aang's abandonment issues come to the fore. This was a great bit of character building.
BonsaiForest
I'll agree with you on Aang getting better a tad quickly. And personally, I didn't like how they totally segwayed out of the desert. Yeah they explained it, but it felt rushed.
Codafett
Emperordaein
ManwiththePlan
PataHikari
Emperordaein
Ghilz
Envyus
Sure both Long Feng and the gaang don't want the war breaking out in Ba Sing Se. The difference is that...Long Feng isn't a good person. The reason he doesn't want to work together with Aang is because that would mean letting the Avatar handle too much of the situation and he sees the Avatar as a threat to the order in Ba Sing Se that he's literally spent his life building up. Long Feng isn't going to work with the good guys to stop the war because he's not really interested in what happens in the war so long as he keeps his power and manipulation of the Earth King.
ManwiththePlan
BonsaiForest
I think Long Feng wouldn't want to risk the security of his own city to invade the Fire Nation. Moving troops away from Ba Sing Se to the Fire Nation capital would leave the city in danger, which is the very last thing Long Feng wants.
Zillafire
Kalaong
You really need to get a sense of humor. That Bear Joke was one of the best of the series.
Codafett
Ghilz
Envyus
Emperordaein
All your paragraph does is runic my already tenuous enjoyment for thuds terrible liveblog
PataHikari
Kalaong
DeryKeb
Emperordaein
(edited by: Emperordaein)
Ghilz
LadyMomus
PataHikari
Enjoying the liveblog quite a bit, as a fan of the show. The criticism can be harsh, but I enjoy seeing the show from a different perspective quite a bit. Keep it up!
YoungMachete
ShadowWarden
Yeah. I admit, I've been getting a bit too much aggressive against you. This is a great liveblog, and it's has many elements that I wanted to do in my FMA Liveblog.
Emperordaein
ManwiththePlan
Korval
Ghilz
Emperordaein
(edited by: Emperordaein)
ManwiththePlan
Again, it has become very aparrent how you feel about Toph, while I will wait for The Guru to finish to reply, suffice to say this is a lynchpin.
JusticeMan
Half Assed? One of the best episodes of the second season is half assed?
Codafett
How about they leave a GUY, a HUMAN FRIEND, dying on the ground and go looking for a pet. Couldn\'t Katara have healed him? Couldn\'t they have carried him to the surface and to some doctor?
ANM789
Dracoblade
Ghilz
Emperordaein
JusticeMan
Kalaong
(edited by: Kalaong)
I agree that the Gaang did make fools out of the Earth Army.
Codafett
Emperordaein
Ghilz
JusticeMan
Envyus
ManwiththePlan
Points!
1. In the vision we can see that Toph used her vision to see the impurities of Earth in the metal and bent
those to warp the metal, thus the extra effort exerted (it did look a bit painful) and why she can't levitate/push metal like the earth she usually uses.
2.Another point is toph's uniqueness; when she says she's the best earth bender in the world it's true. Toph has the benefit of being tough the bending by the Badgermoles, the creators of the art, as well as a blindess-based ability. This not only let's her get in tune with the real mechanics of earth bending (getting a full sensory analysis of the bending material) but it also
allows her to manipulate the metallic impurities, something that would be impossible for someone who wasn't her or trained by her. Because
you are incapable of seeing what me, other commenters, every poster on the wiki, and countless fans see as an obvious extension of abilities already revealed ( the
best literary way to show power development rather than just tacking on arbitrary ones) does not make it a Deus Ex Machina, especially given how significant it becomes later on.
3. Now the rest of this post os where you shine, here you do exactly what you should do and exactly why I read this. Despite my posts o have no inherent dislike of you and I have an open mind and here is ere you have contributed something of purpose. Toph, in all instances is a gun; despite the character wrapped
around her that shines through in certain episodes she's used as a human tool, and with the exception of some great story eps (like the Blind Bandit) she falls short as the flattest character. Even Tai-Lee got some in The Beach and The Boiling Rock. But Toph is simply shallow. Is that okay? Its tolerable, and I can see the idea working through, she's got a good personality and powers and she's very likable; but ultimately she's pretty much a hologram, a 2D figure that forms the appearance of a 3D whole. Now its a sign of Bryke's genius that this gets thru in an other wise full-checked cast, but it stands to be reasoned that this could be the west , if strong, link on the chain. To go meta this is were you are at tour strongest and while I do not agree with many of your insights your skills are not to be ignored.
JusticeMan
@ Man With The Plan: Thinking someone has no character and not liking the character given is not the same thing. No one's about to argue that Scrappy-Doo had no personality just because no one liked him.
Wackd
@ Justice Man: The only main character more flat than Toph would be Suki. Other than that, the likes of Aang, Katara, Zuko, Sokka, Iroh, or Azula are all better developed than her. I love Toph, don't get me wrong, but she isn't the best character in the series and I think she gets a little too much love from many fans who think that she is.
ManwiththePlan
Emperordaein
Book 2 being "Earth", I thought Toph as a character and an earthbender had a very strong presence. In Book 3 on the other hand...
ManwiththePlan
Codafett
I really gotta work on that Italics thing.
Codafett
I'll be back on Friday with the Season 3 intro.
Korval
Emperordaein
ManwiththePlan
JusticeMan
98.213.219.116
PataHikari
Long Feng's problem was that he got focused on doublecrossing Azula when the time came to it rather than focusing on the Dai Li possibly doublecrossing him. He was overconfident in their loyalty to him but when they turned on him, he saw that he had no real power anymore. Azula told it to him straight and he surrendered. Personally, I thought it was well handled. Yeah, Long Feng could've showed a bit more resistance in the end but he's been scheming, manipulating, wielding power, and fighting people with words his whole life. When confronted with Azula, she, as he put it, "beat him at his own game."
ManwiththePlan
But why would Long Feng give Azula the opportunity to take control of the Dai Li? His need for Azula and her companions is simple and limited. They are to stalemate or capture the Avatar and his friends. Long Feng himself can take care of coordinating the Dai Li's movements. And though it might be reasonable to suggest that Long Feng underestimated Azula, Long Feng 1)knows that Azula had the intelligence and boldness to plot a takeover of Ba Sing Se and should thus be considered just as dangerous as any adult and 2)Long Feng has undoubtably had previous experience fighting political battles, both before and during his rise to power. He's obtained, and kept, the position of head of the Dai Li despite the attempts other power-hungry individuals would have wanted to replace him. He should be too smart to jeopardize his hold over the Dai Li by handing authority over them to anyone. Even if Azula's authority was only intended to be temporary, she doesn't do anything with the Dai Li that Long Feng can't do himself. It's not like the man hasn't fought directly before. Truthfully, Azula should have simply tried to kill Long Feng and anyone else who challenged her for command, and even then Azula would be taking the risk that someone ambitious enough and smart enough among the Dai Li would instigate a coup against her.
98.213.219.116
ManwiththePlan
98.213.219.116
ManwiththePlan
98.213.219.116
But the fact is, Long Feng did not do any of the things you think he should have done. He just wasn't as good at what he was doing as you thought he was or wanted him to be. You don't have to like or understand this part of the episode but Azula beating Long Feng at his own game is what happened and what needed to happen. End of story.
ManwiththePlan
And the only reason that Long Feng behaved like this was so that Azula could succeed. Even though Long Feng has no reason to act the way he does.
JtheDrafter
ManwiththePlan
Azula was just being a luckier Zhao when she shot lightning at Aang. Zhao knew no restraint, and didn't seem like the guy who would stand around and wait to get his ass kicked. Azula was just better at it because the writers had to show her as being powerful enough to be a viable threat. That's why Long Feng gave up instantly.
ideae
HyperAlbion
OnoreBakaSama
Bourne~Endeavor
JusticeMan
The whole Katara / Hakoda plot annoys me, becomes it comes out of freaking nowhere. Watch Bato of the Water Tribe. Katara is HAPPY at the idea of joining her dad (not as much as Sokka, who is positively hyper, but my point stands). There's NO trace of the abandonment issues she has here. This plot comes out of nowhere, and quietly leaves, not accomplishing anything.
Ghilz
I always assumed that Zuko and Mai were continuing a relationship. That's the feel I got from watching the two of them interact. Kataang, by contrast, spent most of its shelf-life in the form of a one-sided crush on Aang's part. Katara seemed too old to be interested in Aang romantically (even if it's only a two-year age difference).
98.213.219.116
JusticeMan
Ghilz
ManwiththePlan
Um... The "Kataango" isn't a dance. They're using nothing but Waterbending moves. They're sparring. And are they having fuuuuun.
Kalaong
SingingRain
ManwiththePlan
This is the same guy who took an offhanded joke comment from Toph and used it to say there was a characterization shift later in the episode. I've learned to gloss over the nitpicks because there are a lot more solid arguments in this liveblog.
Wackd
The Irony is lost on you I see.
JusticeMan
I actually liked this episode. Not one of the better ones, but I did like it. Still, your criticisms about it cutting into the schedule of the war, or how the heroes put the village in danger, are spot on, and I missed both of those when I was originally watching it.
BonsaiForest
What I find funny is when Katara says she will never turn her back on people who need her, most people will point at her leaving Jet. I remember her being determined to abandon the people of Ba Sing Se.
Scabbard
Who's interested in an episode-by-episode calculation of exactly how much time passed in the show, including the first half of Season 3?
Before anyone says it's impossible to accurately calculate the passage of time in Avatar The Last Airbender, I'm going to agree with you; it is impossible. Using the lunar calender, that is. The phases of the moon change according to the plot and are very inaccurate, but that just means we have to use the solar calender, instead. In other words, we'll have to calculate time according to the solstices, and even according to the solar eclipse and Sozin's Comet.
First of all, exactly when did Sozin's Comet happen? All we ever got on the time was “the end of summer.” And the Western calender and Chinese calender have very different views on when the seasons start and end, and we don't know which calender Roku was using when he said that. The Western calender names the solstices and the equinoxes as the beginning points of the respective seasons, but the Chinese calender has them as the mid-points of the seasons, because of China's location. The end of summer according to the Western calender would be September 22-23, when the autumnal equinox occurs and marks the beginning of the autumn season. But, in the Chinese calender, the end of summer happens earlier than that, around August 7, about six and a half weeks after the summer solstice, which would be June 21-22. If we wanted to more or less satisfy both definitions of the end of summer, we could pick the mid point between the different dates as the “end of summer” as used by Roku; August 31-September 1.
Now, let's say that that is when Sozin's Comet occurred. Let's count back from that date, shall we? Between Aug. 31st-Sep. 1st and the summer solstice, June 21-22 (a.k.a. The Avatar And The Fire Lord), would be 68-69 days. Almost 2 ½ months or 10 weeks. Between the summer solstice and the winter solstice, which is about December 21-22 (a.k.a. The Spirit World part 2: Avatar Roku), would be 182-183 days. 6 ½ months or 26 weeks. Which also includes the time skips that occurred between the three seasons, however long they were.
So let's add it up. About 2 ½ months + 6 ½ months = about 9 months, from the winter solstice to Sozin's Comet. If we were to add an extra month or six weeks to that number for the first seven episodes of Season 1 that took place before the winter solstice, that would be 10 ½ months at the most. On average, that would be 4.8 days per episode for all three seasons, if they each covered that much time and there weren't any time skips between seasons. If we used the Chinese calender and started earlier than August 31, with Aug. 7 as the date of Sozin's Comet and counted back to Dec. 22 from that day instead, then added six weeks for the first episodes, that would give us about 9 ½ months instead, leaving us with average 4.3 days per episode. If we started from a later date, with Sep. 21 (the day or two before the autumn equinox) as Sozin's Comet and did the same thing, that would be 11 months and seven days, with an average of 5.3 days per episode.
In other words, no matter which calender you use, the time that passed in the cartoon between The Boy in the Iceberg and Sozin's Comet was less than a year. Having clarified that, let's focus on the time that passed during the first half of Season 3, which is what you have a problem with in this article.
The Awakening – 2 days.
The Headband – 2 days.
The Painted Lady – Approx. 1 week. This episode is tricky, because they could've spent anywhere between one day to several days cleaning the river at the end of it. However, only four days passed before that, and if we say it took three days to clean up the river as much as they were able to, then that would be a week, so let's just go with that.
Sokka's Master – 2 days.
The Beach – 1 day. Azula mentions them having to stay at Ember Island for a week, and since at least her and Zuko were back at the capital by the next episode, then we need to remember to add in this minor time skip.
The Avatar and the Fire Lord – This is also tricky, as we don't know how much time passed between Roku telling Aang to go to his island during the Summer Solstice and the actual Summer Solstice. But, since Zuko read Sozin's last testimonial during the solstice, and it took him at least a day to figure out that that was what the letter was saying to do, with some more time passing after the solstice itself showing Zuko confronting his uncle about the letter, let's just say 3 days for this episode, to be safe.
The Runaway – This one is easy. The episode specifically states two days passed before when the episode started, so all we have to do is add another day for Katara and Toph's scam attempt and subsequent events. 3 days.
The Puppetmaster – 2 days. Technically 3 nights and 2 days.
Nightmares and Daydreams – 3 days.
Day of Black Sun parts 1 and 2 – Both episodes happen over the course of 1 day.
So, including the assumed week that passed between The Beach and The Avatar And the Fire Lord, how much time passed during the first half of Season 3? I got 33 days including The Awakening and The Headband, and The Day of Black Sun two-parter after Nightmares and Daydreams. From just The Painted Lady to Nightmares and Daydreams, however, it's only 18 days. That doesn't count any time that passed in between those episodes except for the one week Azula mentioned, but let's add, say, one day between each episode. Number of episodes = 7. Days between episodes = 6. 18 days + 6 offscreen days between the Painted Lady and Nightmares and Daydreams = 24 days.
So that's about how much time passed in the first part of Season 3, accounting for overhead.
Having figured that out, how much time did Team Avatar have to spare for things like the Painted Lady episode during that part of the story, anyway, if they had any time to spare at all? That answer will take longer to answer, because we'd have to start back at the beginning of the series and count forward, but I'm game.
Let's say that Sozin's Comet takes place on the last day of summer according to the Chinese calender, August 6, which is the earliest it would have happened. Not only is the Chinese calender the more likely candidate than the Western Calender is, considering the Asian influence of the Avatar world, but it would also give Team Avatar the tightest deadline plausible to defeat the Fire Nation before Sozin's Comet. Using the dates and calculations we figured out using the Chinese calender before, with the extra six weeks tagged onto the front of it to be safe, The Boy In The Iceberg/The Avatar Returns happened about Nov. 10th.
So, six weeks pass. They visit the Southern Air Temple, all the spots marked on Sokka's map, Kyoshi Island, la la la la, until they end up at Hei Bai's forest two days before the Winter Solstice, December 20th, give or take. Let's say that the actual Winter Solstice occurred on Dec. 22.
Okay, so after the vagueness of how much time had passed before, now we can get someplace. Now we have a definite, real-world, astronomical event that canonically did happen during the story, to mark the passage of time with from here to Sozin's Comet. First, Season 1:
The Waterbending Scroll – 2 days.
Jet – 3 days.
The Great Divide – 2 days
The Storm – 1 day. Technically 1 day and 1 night.
The Blue Spirit – 2 days
The Fortuneteller – 2 days (doesn't seem like two days at first glance, but the ash and smoke from the erupting volcano can make it look like night had fallen again and that three days passed instead of two).
Bato of the Water Tribe – 2 days
The Deserter – 2 days.
The Northern Air Temple – 1 day. Technically 1 night and 1 day.
The Waterbending master – 4 days
Siege of the North 1 and 2 – 3 days
Total = 24 days. Like before, let's add in 1 day offscreen that happened between episodes, also taking into account times where we know more than a day passed since the previous episode. Two days passed between The Northern Air Temple and the Waterbending Master. Between The Waterbending Master and the Siege of the North, however, is difficult. There couldn't have been one day between them, because there's no way Katara could've picked up enough Waterbending to shoot to the top of Pakku's Waterbending class with only one day's training. If it weren't for the moon phases being messed up, we could compare the current moon phase with the phases seen during the Waterbending Master (which would be about three weeks.) So let's say half that time passed between the Waterbending Master and The Siege of the North, 11 days.
Offscreen days = 21 days. 21 off screen days + 24 on-screen days = 45 days since the Winter Solstice, December 22. That would place the day after the Seige of the North at Feb. 6, right around when the Chinese define the beginning of the spring season.
Now for the time skip that happened between Team Avatar being at the North Pole and them being somewhere off the Earth Kingdom coast at the beginning of Season 2. Iroh mentions being on the raft him and Zuko escaped the North Pole on for three weeks, and assuming some time had passed between those three weeks and perhaps the two of them having to reach the actual Fire Nation colonies on foot, let's say four weeks have passed since Feb. 6th and the Siege of the North, which places us at March 6th as we begin Season 2.
The Avatar State – 3 days
The Cave of Two Lovers/Return to Omashu – 2 days
The Swamp – 2 days
Avatar Day – 2 days
The Blind Bandit – 2 days
Zuko Alone (assuming that this episode didn't occur at the same time that The Blind Bandit did) – 2 days.
The Chase – 2 days.
Bitter Work – 1 day.
The Library/The Desert – 2 days
The Serpent's Pass/The Drill – 2 days
City of Walls and Secrets – 2 days
Tales of Ba Sing Se – 2 weeks; see notes for next episode.
Appa's Lost Days – The episode specifies that four weeks passed between Appa getting captured by the Sandbenders and eventually ending up at and getting captured again at Ba Sing Se. The episode shows that both The Serpent's Pass episode (shown by the Gang sleeping at the camp they'd made there for the night and Zuko and Iroh being on the ferry) and probably part of City of Walls and Secrets (as shown by the shot of Aang sleeping in Ba Sing Se when we find out that he's not the one blowing the bison whistle that Appa was answering to) happened during this episode. If so, then Appa would've been captured by Long Feng the very night before the Earth King's party, allowing him to use Appa as blackmail for Aang. And that's assuming that he wasn't messing with Aang's head and didn't actually capture Appa until during Tales of Ba Sing Se. The Serpent's Pass episode had already come and gone halfway during this episode, but Appa didn't go to Ba Sing Se then. At least 5 days passed between the scenes that showed those episodes and when he actually did go to Ba Sing Se itself. From this, we could say that Tales of Ba Sing Se happened over a course of approximately between one and two weeks.
Lake Laogai/The Earth King – 3 days
The Guru/The Crossroads of Destiny – Aang said he wouldn't be back for a week during the Guru, but it's safe to say that he flew as fast as he could back to Chameleon Bay to get Sokka because he knew something was wrong with Katara, and got there sooner than that. More than likely both episodes occurred over a week.
So let's add all this up. I know this is getting tedious, but bear with me. On-screen days = 46 days. Off screen days = only 11 (thanks to all the two-parters and simultaneous episodes that happened in this season). Off screen + on screen = 57 days from March 6th, where we've gauged the season started, and a little over 4 ½ months since the Winter Solstice. Now it's about May 2nd as Team Avatar escapes from Ba Sing Se. To be more specific, it's two months before the summer solstice, and 3 ½ months before Sozin's Comet right now.
Now for the second time skip. We really don't have anything definite about this one, outside Katara's offhanded comment about Aang being out for a few weeks. We could try guessing how long it took for Aang's hair to grow out and all, but we don't know how fast his hair grows. Can we just say that four weeks passed here the same as did after Season 1? That would put us at May 30-31 when Aang wakes up at the beginning of Season 3, just short of the summer months. Less than one month away from the events of The Avatar and the Fire Lord, 2 ½ months before Sozin's Comet, and 33 days before the Day of Black Sun, like we'd figured out earlier. So let's see what we get when we add up all of Season 3:
The Awakening – 2 days.
The Headband – 2 days.
The Painted Lady – 1 week.
Sokka's Master – 2 days.
The Beach – 1 day.
7 days mentioned by Azula
The Avatar and the Fire Lord – 3 days.
The Runaway – 3 days.
The Puppetmaster – 2 days.
Nightmares and Daydreams – 3 days
Day of Black Sun parts 1 and 2 – 1 day.
The Western Air Temple – 2 days
The Firebending Masters – 3-4 days, depending on how long it took for Zuko and Aang to come back from the Sun Warriors.
The Boiling Rock 1 and 2 – 3 days
The Southern Raiders – 5 days, but let's go ahead and round it up to 7, since Katara and Zuko had to go back and pick the others up before going to the beach house.
The Ember Island Players – 1 day
Sozin's Comet 1 and 2 – 3 days
On screen days = 53. Off screen days = 14 (again, less than season 1 because of the two part episodes, and including the week we'd already counted after The Beach). 53 + 14 = 67 days, between The Awakening and Sozin's Comet. 2 months and 11 days to be exact. Total days from the Winter Solstice, Dec. 22, to Sozin's Comet, Aug. 6th = a little over 8 months.
So, how much time did Team Avatar waste before Nightmares and Daydreams, if they did? We've already agreed that 33 days passed between The Painted Lady and Nightmares and Daydreams, and that's including the off screen days we added for overhead. On average, that would be 6.6 days per episode. So is that how many days each episode covered? No, it's not. Did Team Avatar waste time pussyfooting around like they did before Nightmares and Daydreams? They ran a bigger risk of getting caught, yes, but did it really cut into their time, necessarily? No, it didn't. They had enough time to spare, Sokka was just overreacting like he does a lot of the time. Heck, if they really had stayed on a tight schedule while doing everything that they did before going to the rendezvous point, they would have gotten there even earlier than four days.
And all of this, of course, is assuming that both of the time skips really did cover four whole weeks apiece, that it really did take Katara one and a half weeks to become Pakku's star pupil during Season 1, that the Tales of Ba Sing Se really did last for two whole weeks, and that Zuko Alone happened after The Blind Bandit, instead of during it. Any variation of these in any combination would've added even more overhead to the first half of Season 3 then we've already got.
Omen
Correction: My bad. Only 24 days had passed between The Painted Lady and Nigthmares and Daydreams. 24 days divided by 5 episodes = 4.8 days average per episode inbetween the two episodes.
Omen
ShadowWarden
Emperordaein
Most people on an exercise regiment have...y'know...lives. They have jobs or friends or whatever so don't spend nearly as much time exercising if one might if all he had to do was sleep and eat. And let's face it—there's no reason to believe that Iroh isn't continually exercising whenever there's no one in the room with him or he isn't sleeping. Not to mention that he's not eating nearly as much as he would be otherwise, so it's not like he'd be putting on a lot of weight. So it's somewhat justifiable that Iroh gets more ripped in two months than most get in a year.
Wackd
JusticeMan
You forgot one point of the Sokka/Piandao duel; Piandao is praising Sokka every few seconds for instinctively pulling stunts that it took him years to figure out. He's saying that Sokka will be eventually more awesome than he is - and he's 1000% true. Sokka outdoes him by taking out an entire fleet of airships within just a few months.
Kalaong
As an Asian martial artist myself, I would just like to say that I fully agree with every one of your statements blasting the cryptic pseudo-wisdom that comes out of the mouths of every character that's supposed to be "wise". All that mystical stuff is the cancer that's killing my beloved kung fu and relegating it to obsolescence in the face of MMA.
PRC4Eva
JusticeMan
Wackd
Surprised that you liked this one. Alot of people actaully HATE this episode and think it's stupid filler. But I've always been a fan of villain spotlight episodes, so naturally this was one of my favorites.
ManwiththePlan
Ghilz
So what Iroh is saying is that he's evil?
Ghilz
ManwiththePlan
I originally liked this episode, but all the flaws you point out are true. At first, my complaint was that "Let's share our prosperity with the world" seemed like a dumb reason to start a war, unless Sozin was lying to Roku. But the things you point out are much bigger writing mistakes.
BonsaiForest
HTorranceGriffin
Ghilz
I always assumed the vision had nothing to do with what the surface was made of unless you factor in the state of matter. She can make out people and shapes so long as they're on the ground or on something that's on the ground or on something that's on something that's on the ground (etc, etc.)
Wackd
Getting kind of sick of the way this liveblog treats Toph. She's not a very important or developed character, but that doesn't mean she's not a character and the writers didn't think that either.
ManwiththePlan
BonsaiForest
ManwiththePlan
Korval
ManwiththePlan
JusticeMan
BonsaiForest
Kalaong
ManwiththePlan
Matues
ManwiththePlan
JusticeMan
About the symoblism with Zuko's scar. I think it represents the part of Zuko that's been damaged by Ozai. That's why it's used to emphasize his darker moments.
JtheDrafter
Agree with the above post. Zuko was a troubled but perfectly good kid until Ozai gave him that scar and banished him; after that trauma, he snapped. We see it clearly in the next episode's flashback how he's suddenly acting the way he did when we first met him in Season One. The scar represents his darker side while the normal part of his face reperesents the good person he used to be and must be again.
ManwiththePlan
ManwiththePlan
JusticeMan
BonsaiForest
Peteman
poshi6576
Interestingly enough, the original series bible by Mike and Bryan always had this "right and wrong" way of firebending in mind and the twist was that Iroh was DELIBERATELY teaching Zuko the wrong way of firebending because (in conception) Iroh was a bad guy under orders from his brother. In the finished product, Iroh became the total opposite of that, yet they still have him essentially lying to Zuko by teaching him all that hate and rage stuff for firebending. I find it weird that they never found a better way of fixing that.
ManwiththePlan
JusticeMan
JusticeMan
^ When he gets to Sozin's Comet, I bet he's going to conclude it with "This series was fun, but filled with terrible writing."
ManwiththePlan
BonsaiForest
Re: learning martial arts from animals - plenty of real life martial arts styles claim this. Of course, the efficacy of said styles in a real fight or even a simulated fight is...dubious, at best.
PRC4Eva
majorannah
(edited by: majorannah)
ManwiththePlan
On a minor note, I found it a bit disconcerting when Chit Sang's girlfriend and best friend got left behind on the second escape plan.
Daigerus
JusticeMan
Emperordaein
ManwiththePlan
This episode screams A-SUE-LA to me. Given that she can find their hideout AND escape without a hitch.
Codafett
My guess is that, in universe, this is the Fire Nation's way of laughing at their enemies.
128.123.87.128
^ Though at the same time, Sokka did pass himself off as "a Sokka fan" and the actor playing Sokka didn't question it. I guess Sokka's gotten so cool that he even has a fan club within the Fire Nation?
ManwiththePlan
ManwiththePlan
PataHikari
^ True. But I can kind of see his point on Toph, especially on her non-prescence as a character in the 4-part finale, but that doesn't mean she's not a character nor does it mean the writers think she's not a character. He's only exaggerating the truth so he can have a "clever" way of insulting the wriitng of this show.
ManwiththePlan
plus I loved her comment about Boomerang and her advencture with Zuko
Envyus
Y'know, all of Korval's claims of the writers not treating Toph like a character can really be said for Ty Lee. SHE'S the character who's a non-entity in this season. She only appeared three times and aside from "The Beach", she just fought alongside Azula, followed Mai in betraying Azula, and then had one undewhelming scene in the finale. LAME. The poor girl deserved better.
ManwiththePlan
Ghilz
ManwiththePlan
Not sure reviewing the finale by "storylines" was the way to go, all the "i'll cover later" or "stuff happens" gives your recap a chaotic feel and makes it REALLY hard to follow. Think you'd have had more success reviewing the episodes as they come, and only do the storyline by storyline thing for the evaluations at the end. Not counting that if you will re-visit scenes again and again, this may get rather annoying.
Ghilz
(edited by: Ghilz)
ManwiththePlan
Ghilz
ManwiththePlan
ManwiththePlan
PataHikari
^ He was referring to the battle between Zuko and Azula BEFORE Zuko made the stupid "lightning" remark and the Katara vs Azula battle that followed it. Compared to the story-based conflict going on in the Aang vs Ozai battle, this fight WAS more character-driven and less story related.
ManwiththePlan
I fail to see how giving the climax of character's arcs is in any way not story related.
PataHikari
Korval
Likewise Auzla was BATSHIT crazy at this point, the indignity is perfectly IC.
JusticeMan
Zuko fell down because, if you remember from the episode lightning-redirect, that you're not supposed to redirect through the heart. While he didn't do this before, it appears to be what he did.
Ajbcool
ManwiththePlan
And with Yon Rah and Ozai, he was only encouraging other characters to kill that person. Do we know for sure that if it came to it, he would've commited murder himself? No. The one person in the series he ever had the opportunity to kill before was Zhao. And he was willing to spare him twice! From what I saw, Zuko's no killer.
ManwiththePlan
"Which would be fine, if we hadn't had that scene back in Siege of the North when Zuko melted through ice while under a deluge of water. So the only possible explanation is that Zuko knows some bending technique that Azula doesn't."
Zuko did it knowingly and held his breath. Azula was off guard and concentrated all her breath to the death shot she was going to pull.
" I guess we can just forget about that bit back in The Waterbending Master, where Pakku was able to disable her bending entirely by immobilizing her. Then she slowly moves behind Azula, using the chain she picked up to bind Azula's hands and tie them to the ground. Of course, Azula does nothing to stop this, even though her hands are right next to Katara's and she's in the water rather than ice. Not even so much as a scratch with her fingernails. Once tied down, Katara lets the water go.
To recap: Azula > Zuko = Katara > Azula. Somehow, I don't think the math works on that one."
Unless you consider the factor of time. Also, forgetting time, in this episode only, he beat Azula to the ground and only failed when he pulled that stupid move.
ideae
Mr.Muddlewait
Well, i haven't disagreed with someone more since the reviewers for Cars2 came in
RobbieRotten
A nice point, I'd point you to an Analysis page on Avatar which contends that the primary thesis of the work was Aang vs. The Avatar, and this act, beating Ozai as Aang and not as Avatar using a technique separate from the avatar state (surviving due to Toph and Zuko's techniques) and ultimately winning by rejecting the status of avatar for his own concept that we see Aang has 'surpassed' the Avatar. You can’t let your personal Pro-Killing hang-ups deny that this is both consistent with Character AND with the direction the series was going.
JusticeMan
Uh... Disregard that above comment; it was put up there prematurely by mistake. I'll have a full response to GREAT your series later.
JusticeMan
ShadowWarden
ShadowWarden
Like Korval said, if the writers weren't going to have Aang kill Ozai then they should never have brought the question up. This is war; good people do horrific things to themselves and others so that the people they love will be safe. Aang getting a pass on that isn't brilliant, it's a copout. Avatar is a kids' show. The writers couldn't have Aang kill Ozai, even in shadow, because that brings up the question of how Aang feels about what he did. Avatar was never intended to handle such mature issues. Korval was right. The show should have just quietly had Ozai locked away off-screen.
98.213.219.116
ManwiththePlan
ManwiththePlan
Korval can't delete comments. A mod deleted yours when you started insulting people and saying they are "sucking up to the op" coz they disagree with you.
Ghilz
PataHikari
^It's called an opinion. It's okay to argue about weather or not he was correct, but people may have different opinions on the overall quality. I disagree with him about the whole killing issue, but I won't disagree that the commentary was in-depth and very good.
YoungMachete
ManwiththePlan
Xovvo
Stay tuned, there are still two more to go. I have a discussion of the thematic material of the show, as well as a full conclusion left.
Korval
And I'm still prepping my commentary. ;)
JusticeMan
ManwiththePlan
Envyus
ManwiththePlan
indiana404
Korval
Emperordaein
(edited by: Emperordaein)
ManwiththePlan
Well, this gives me prep time for my reply/response/rebuttal. Good Show! PM me!
JusticeMan
Woah woah woah woah. Why is this in Anime?
AgentRook
Codafett
All Comments
Go To
Mechanist: Yes.
Sokka: I hate this world and everyone in it.
I'm riding up the heights of shame
I'm waiting for the call, the hand on the chest
I'm ready for the fight, and fate''
Woodkid: Iron * I have to say, this was an amazing season finale. The action, plot, themes and overall impact on the story are some of the best in any piece of Western Animation. And I have never watched it again after the first time. Why? It's.....It's a quirk I have. There are things I admit are very, VERY good, but I don't like watching them. I don't like watching this because it is soul crushingly depressing. Actually, from those emotions I realised that this finale is basically the end of Empire Strikes Back. Hell, the Book 1 finale was A New Hope. Cut to the rest of the Gaang back at their house. Toph uses her Toph-Vision to see that nobody's home. Then she says someone's at the door; an old friend. When the Gaang opens it, they see... Iroh! Wait; how did he know where they were? I know how he knew they were in Ba Sing Se, but how did he know how to find the Gaang's house? "Oh thank god it's you! I busted into five houses before this one!" Seriously, why did they surrender just to keep this fop alive? Let Azula roast his ass; serves him right for being an idiot, and maybe someone not made of fail can run the Earth Kingdom afterwards. Hey, they aren't going to let someone be killed due to apathy. A life is a life. And if I can (Barely) endure half an Act of trying to put a useless doormat on a throne, only for him to fuck everything up, I can endure them trying to save the Earth King. But the writers didn't do that. Why? Because there wasn't time. This episode is so full of stuff that there simply wasn't any time to write it that way. Maybe if they hadn't screwed around with those time-wasting episodes earlier in the season, they could have done the finale as a proper two-parter rather than a 1.5-parter. Since Legend Of Korra is having a tighter episode count, I bet they will be much more inclined to not fall into that trap.destinythe plot says so. Because in fiction, this is what destiny really is - an open admission of railroading, of writers' inability to otherwise motivate their characters to follow the plot, or enable them to resolve any issues by themselves. And when it's openly affirmed, at least with a straight face, the whole story loses any meaning as a result.Important Links