This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Charles Phipps: I think we should break this page up into individual game entries now. It's hard to write about 1 and 2 in the weight of them. Also, can we get a link to "Wild Mass Guessing" for Fallout at the top of the page?
Tepoztecal: Gay Option - Only for lesbians in the first game. I played a lot of Fallout 1, and I don't remember any lesbianism. Are you sure that's accurate?
Looney Toons: Dunno if this belongs anywhere in the main text, but folks might like to know it. Fallout was originally going to be the very first GURPS computer game — Steve Jackson Games worked very closely with Interplay for a long time to get just the right feel. But something went wrong in the working relationship and very near to the end of the programming cycle Interplay dropped the GURPS system and replaced it with a homebrew clone that they called "S.P.E.C.I.A.L." Just what went wrong is unclear — some folks claim Steve pressured the developers to tone down the violence, others say it was a deliberate double-cross. The fact that a fully-featured substitute system engine was available so close to the end of the development cycle is certainly suspicious, but it's impossible at this late date for an outsider to determine who is really at fault. There's a little bit about this in the Wikipedia article
on the game.
- sigh, don't use the Fallout 3 propaganda in this page, use the Fallout 1 box art, or one of the Vaultboy pics (such as bloody mess)
Rebochan: Hey, I took out a short rant about Fallout 3. This isn't No Mutants Allowed, guys. Other tropers might want to keep an eye on this page, Fallout pages tend to get vandalised by the children of the holy flames.
Deuxhero:Very little is known? someone hasn't been paying attention to the previews (not that I blame you, Todd Howard is one of those people who makes you question humanity with his constant hype of "emersion" ).
- Before anyone asks about the ignoreing canon, where to begin, Ghouls are now zombies, super mutants are now orcs (not to mention ax crazy), the Pipboy 3000 that was top of the line when everyone was nuked somehow has a more advanced model, among other things.
Rebochan: Sorry, but that's all your personal opinion. I've followed the previews too and I haven't seen anything directly contradict the series. And I'm sorry, but the mutants = orcs thing has been around since before the first screenshot from, guess who? The Fallout community.
- Deux Hero: Can't find direct contradiction? you obviously aren't paying attention, and do you know why the Fallout comunity said it first? Because they played the games and know what the characters look like. >_>
- wit: Go take more pictures of yourself crying in front of Bethesda's Fallout 3 announcement. Your whining doesn't belong here.
Rebochan: And now we've got a link back from another trope page. Sweet!
zero29: Isn't Fallout 1 a good example of the Never Accepted in His Hometown trope? And why isn't Fallout listed in the The Chosen One trope?
Dalantia: He was accepted just fine, I think, until he actually started adventuring. After that...
Dalantia:
Pulled this, because I was about to natter.
- Considering how many people think Oblivion is an overrated piece of crap...
Most of the people arguing in support of the Tropes Are Not Bad designation on that are people who hated Oblivion, from what I've seen - that the addition of guns and the change of the leveling system is an overwhelmingly positive thing for Oblivion, and that had the game been released without the Fallout moniker, it would have done even better than it had with no backlash and no people expecting more Fallout..
Also, the Ghoul lines were in natter territory, so I just tried to patch up the line they were under. >_>
Haesslich: Edited the following for grammar and to correct the part about the white house.
- On a similar note, nuclear bombs apparently respect landmarks. The White House, Washington Monument, many stores, etc. seem perfectly fine if a bit broken down and abandonned after the nuclear apocalypse.
Also pulled the vampire quest from the unfortunate implications section, as it was already covered under 'Our Vampires are Different'. Instead, it was replaced with a quest involving mass-murder.
Red Viking: The list of tropes explaining why the ending to the third game sucked was getting long so I moved them to under the
Dalantia: That's not a Gainax Ending - reading the Gainax Ending entry implies that it's vague and nebulous and unsatisfactory. The ending I saw was unambiguous, but was still terrible.
Duralict: This entry has a lot of spoilers in it for a game that's been out for a week, and more importantly most of the new Fallout 3 trope references aren't labeled (so it's very difficult to avoid the spoilers). On top of that, Fallout 3's trope examples seem to be taking over the entry, and the description would be excessively long if it was expanded much to cover the third game. Can we split the entry into one for Fallout 1&2, and a second for the 3rd? I made a YKTTW post for it to discuss.
Also, Haesslich, the example you changed it to isn't Unfortunate Implications, it's an unwinnable situation. There aren't any Unfortunate Implications about the PC doing something idealistic that explodes in his face. The vampire quest is a much better example because the quest geometry implies that cannibals are good.
Haesslich: The reason I tagged [[ Tenpenny Towers]] as as 'unfortunate' was because the game's saying that it's okay to lie, intimidate, or do other things [[ (like manipulate the residents into murdering one another)]] that send unwilling people away to their deaths because that's the moral thing to do and that the resulting massacre is justified as long as the greater number of people benefit [[ (the ghouls HAD been asking politely to be let in, and they outnumbered the remaining tenants even before unleashing their feral cannibalistic cousins)]]. The vampire situation is less of a quandary - they didn't mean to kill the Brahmin, [[ and the only one there who actually was engaged in murder was the person you were sent in to rescue]] while the rest of them were trying to avoid killing. That's why a negotiated settlement was possible. You can donate blood without dying, after all.
Duralict: Hmm. I suppose it does count as Unfortunate Implications in that it shows people overcoming bigotry and then immediately being slaughtered for it. But not so much on the PC's part, as the game gives you good karma for earnestly attempting to help people overcome bigotry, not for leading them into a deathtrap the player can't realistically be expecting. So getting good karma from taking that path isn't implying anything. I still think the cannibals are a much better example; talking to them they freely admit to having murdered people for food in the past and, until you yourself suggest it, the Rules you can read or be told about their lifestyle are pretty unambiguous that they intend to kill more people in the future. But since this seems to be so subjective, I'll leave the cannibals alone and just tweak the example for Tenpenny Tower (note: it's not plural, there's just the one tower. I just realized we've all been calling it the wrong name since before the game came out) so it's clearer.
Haesslich: Works for me. Overcoming bigotry leads to your own murder? Very unfortunate. Tranquility Lane's almost as bad, especially if you pick the 'good' choice. Unless you consider the good choice [[ euthanasia, as doing it with the override permanently kills the other residents, whereas following orders leads only to a death 'in the sim']].
Red Viking: I don't think the entries should be split into Fallout 1 and 2 and Fallout 3. You're seeing a lot of Fallout 3 troupes popping up because 1.) It's the latest game in the series and 2.) It's taking the gaming world by storm: Over 4 million units sold in the first week alone. A better compromise would just be labeling or referencing the tropes in the third game as such.
Dalantia: I pulled the Tranquility Lane line for a pretty simple reason, personally: Keep in mind that these people would be [[under Doctor Braun's control for the rest of eternity, barring mechanical failures. Killing them is mercy, and that's why there's a positive karma hit. Negative karma hits come from doing what he wants you to do.]]
Haesslich: Negative karma comes from killing innocents, unless they give consent[[ as Harold does during the Oasis subquest]]. In this case, [[ you're making the decision FOR them without any consideration of their wishes, as they may prefer life as Braun's victims to the uncertainty of death]. It's a bit less subjective than the vampire quest, but I won't be reinserting it into the main entry for now. Incidentally, with the Tenpenny quest [[ you may end up stumbling over the dead bodies of the people who you forced into the wastes]], which personally doesn't bother me all that much but should trouble the character a LITTLE since he's responsible for their fates. I'm just surprised the game doesn't see that as bad Karma, unless it considers that to be a case of 'sowing what you reap'. What amused me about that solution was that [[ you could effectively order the game to murder people and get rewarded for it, whereas ordering someone else to walk into the radiation-filled chamber was a Bad Thing]]. But that's just me kvetching about the ending, like everyone else.
Duralict: Hah, yeah... Fallout 3 was a great game, but good god the ending.I still think we should split off the Fallout 3 stuff because people still aren't labeling it all that effectively, but if I'm in the minority I'll shut up about it. It just feels like it would to see a ton of Voyager tropes showing up on the Deep Space Nine page.
Haesslich: Except that Voyager wasn't a direct sequel to DS 9, which Fallout 3 is to Fallout 2 - Tactics would be more of a 'spinoff' the way Voyager was for DS 9 and TNG. I think the Fallout 3 stuff does deserve a "Just Bugs Me" page though, and we can split off a lot of the griping about the ending to that page and just leave the general Wall Banger and But Thou Must! stuff on the main page. Oh, and who nuked everything after Spiritual Successor? The Tenpenny Tower quest did qualify for Unfortunate Implications.
Duralict: That's a really elegant solution, actually. Though I still giggle every time I get down to the nested Wall Banger tropes. I think that's probably one of the most thorough example writeups on the entire site, and it's really funny just how many bad tropes Bethesda managed to squeeze into it. Apropos of nothing, I seriously wonder if whoever was in charge of that part is kicking themselves right now.
Haesslich: According to the guide, they originally intended it so that the player died, period. No matter what you did. The current ending was the improved version, as hard as that may be to believe. But their original script still shows up in how this ending's handled, as all the Wall Banger entries show. Oh, and I edited the Deathclaw entry - the developers had admitted they had intentionally left no good ending for the Deathclaws you met in the main quest, only allowing them to not appear in the epilogue - the same thing that happened to any town that you didn't visit during the main game. Oh, and I added the Fallout3 link to the page, so the griping can continue in the proper area. I'm pretty sure Bethesda Software didn't intend for that to happen, but they really DID set themselves up for an Internet Backdraft.
Rebochan: Looking at that ending...seriously, did they shoot the writers and replace them at the last minute? Everything before that is incredible. Well, it's still not ruining the game for me. I've just relegated it to Dis Continuity.
Haesslich: As I said, that was the 'fixed' ending - the original simply had you, period. They gave you a way out of death. Note that it's still awful.
Haesslich: Removed the following from the But Thou Must! entry - the Sheriff can survive if you move fast enough (by going into VATS mode as soon as the gun is drawn) and he'll still be alive to give you your quest rewards afterwards. It sounds like this poster encountered the infamous Megaton 'vanishing characters' bug where they fall through the ground to never be seen again.
- Same thing happens to the sheriff of Megaton if you try to savehim from Burke.
Haesslich: Changed the Powered Armor entry a tad, as there is ONE suit in the game which doesn't take away Agility when used. Did refrain from putting in a gripe about how the Advanced Power Armor Mk II is less protective in Fallout 3 than in was in Fallout 2.
Dalantia: Which one is that? If it's the 51b, then we can probably say "The Infinity Plus One armor doesn't, though".
Haesslich: It's not Infinity Plus One Armor by any stretch of the imagination - unlike the Powered Armor suits of the two previous games, it doesn't provide that much more protection than something like say, Ranger Armor. But yes, the T-51b, despite being the oldest suit in the game, is the best... even though in the previous game, it was easily outclassed by the Mark II armor that the Enclave is wearing. You can hear Brotherhood soldiers discussing the Enclave's more advanced armor... which is somehow less advanced than it was thirty years ago. Yeah, back to Wall Banger territory.
- ''The odd disability being that they are mindless zombies instead of the still sentient type of Ghouls,Super Mutants don't count as they can still think, all of the killing can be justified by the fact that they try to kill you, first—> And frankly, calling feral ghouls "innocents with an odd disability" is ignoring the fact that they're trying to kill you. ''
Gattsuru: I was referring to the Blood Ties quest, where the player is presented with a group of terrorized citizens of Arefu and the vampire-wannabe reformed cannibals of Meresti. Excluding the obviously evil way to solve the problem — killing everyone or killing the Arefu folk — the viable solutions involve killing a boatload of vampire-wannabes that try to avoid killing the innocent or talking them into protecting or leaving Arefu alone in exchange for blood packs ... after which you have to talk the Arefu folk into providing blood packs and letting the Meresti feed off raiders. It's not as dark as nuking a town, but cannibalism is worth bad karma when you do it, even if you're only eating raiders.
Haesslich: Fallout says karma is only related to your own personal actions - which is why the Cannibal perk, when you use it, takes a bite (literally) out of your karma while if someone else [[ like the guy supposedly kidnapped who was his parents' murderer]] does it, your own personal karma (which the game measures) is unaffected because you did 'right'. Same explanation for why Tenpenny Tower goes the way it does.
Asmodemus: Taking cannibals and convincing them to only drink donated blood instead is clearly a good thing. Also you can avoid killing people by making a pacifist run according to the other editors.
Haesslich: Donated or the blood of people attacking the 'innocents of Arefu' - but it's VERY hard to avoid killing people in this game, especially if you're doing any of the side-quests. One example is "Stealing Independence", which (if you don't kill the attacking super mutants) means either YOU die or else an NPC who is also on the same quest will. Plus, by Talking the Monster to Death, you indirectly kill a whole bunch of people because you've encouraged someone else to do the killing for you. It's more a Technical Pacifist Run than a true Pacifist Run at that point.
Gattsuru: Asmodemus, you're taking cannibals and convincing them to drink donated blood and blood from raiders, but they do have a rule about killing just to eat in the first place. Haesslich, you can complete the Stealing Independence Quest without having Sydney follow you (or even meeting her), although if you completely avoid her you do miss out on the unique SMG she gives for another quest completion and an ammo vendor in the Underworld. The insane robot is a really tough speech challenge if you don't want to end up sneaking through the Arlington Library again, but you don't need to kill him, either. There are some super mutants that need to be killed by someone in the Jefferson Memorial, you can't complete the last quest without Liberty Prime squishing Enclave, and the Brotherhood tends to kill people whether or not you're around, but most other stuff can be ran away from. You don't even need to talk [[ Eden]] into committing suicide and blowing up his base; you can run away without doing so.
Haesslich: The problem is that Abraham Washington already told you he'd sent someone else out for it, and she was being besieged by Super Mutants - if you didn't meet her and help her out, it's presumed she died in there (as you never see her again anywhere else). The insane robot doesn't have to die, and that's one of the few true Pacifist Run types of actions available along that quest chain. In the end, people die even though (or because you) choose not to pull a trigger - which makes it a Technical Pacifist choice more than a real pacifist one (where you actually have the option for a non-lethal response which works, and which prevents people from dying, a la the stun prod in Deus Ex).
Asmodemus: Technical Pacifist run then. You're still killing Chaotic Evil beings who torture and eat humans and believe themselves superior if you just kill the super mutants though, so it's clearly Black and White. Even though they are people who've been transformed by FEV they still need to die since they refuse to negotiate or consider any peaceful alternative. The only-partly mutated guy Fawkes doesn't attract gunfire when you bring him to towns or the brotherhood's base(who hate the super mutants with a passion) so the problem is with the super mutants not the humans.
Haesslich: Fawkes isn't a psycho super-mutant, but he is a full-fledged one. The failure he represented was that he kept his morals as well as his wits, when they just wanted simple cannon-fodder. The Black-and-Grey Morality part mostly kicks in when you're dealing with two parties who are honestly not all that bad, but who have irreconcilable values, like in the Tenpenny Tower scenario; Roy really isn't a very good guy, and you end up doing some despicable things if you're following the 'good' route, which ends up causing a lot of deaths no matter what you do. Especially as the 'good' ending makes you force people out into the desert to die, and you may stumble across their dead bodies later as a random encounter, showing that they didn't make it. But a fully Pacifist approach in this game is impossible - you are forced to kill people either through your own direct action, or else by letting others do the killing for you (like the Brotherhood of Steel, the Enclave, etc).
Asmodemus: Alright it's sort of grey I guess. I really didn't like those people and liked the nice ghoul lady so it probably seems less grey to me. If they had been willing to just accept some ugly neighbors they would've lived, if I remember right the persuasion thing read "this is happening accept it or leave". Still for the majority of the game it's black and white.
Haesslich: Dashwood and the old lady who ran the cafe were perfectly fine with ghouls, and that Mr. Ling was setting up a committee to welcome them, so they WERE willing to accept the new neighbors. Notice that they were not only killed, but stripped of their clothes and possessions, which the ghouls promptly changed into. Yup. Wall Banger.
Asmodemus: I meant the ones you tell to get lost. The people who stayed died because of the ghoul leader who is a murderous bastard who turns your good deed into a tragedy. It simply shows that helping a nice group of people also helps any jerks within that group of people, so to me it's more of a Family-Unfriendly Aesop.
Bob: First off: I'm going to go ahead and say that "Just because someone is discriminated against doesn't automatically make them good guys" is not Unfortunate Implications.
Second: The "There's also it's not okay to shoot children to death, but enslaving them [[ or using a nuke to kill them]] is perfectly acceptable." part? You get negative Karma for those actions. That means that game tells you that doing those things are bad.
Third: "Also, it's okay to for other people to ask that you commit suicide, but you're a Jerkass if you turn the question back on them." has absolutely nothing to do with Unfortunate Implications. If you're just going to Complain About Shows You Dont Like, put some effort into it.
Fourth: Natter.
- Unfortunate Implications: The [[ Tenpenny Tower]] sidequest, which shows that [[ overcoming bigotry and Fantastic Racism leads to an entire town being slaughtered. People who are different will murder you in your sleep!]] There's also it's not okay to shoot children to death, but enslaving them [[ or using a nuke to kill them]] is perfectly acceptable. Also, it's okay to for other people to ask that you commit suicide, but you're a Jerkass if you turn the question back on them.
- That can be averted, though.
- Fallout has a lot of situations like this, really. Look at the second game and how you could handle the Broken Hills mining town. (There was an ultimately positive way of handling it, however.)
- Tell that to the Deathclaws. (-YOU- don't do that, though - eventually, the Enclave walks in and exterminates the entire brood if you don't finish the game fast enough. Completing the game fast just allows them to be never mentioned, as if you'd never visited them. The good end, due to bugs, never showed up.)
- Again, that wasn't a bug - they never wrote one for them.
Edit: I was editing the page for to long and swallowed up another addition to the Unfortunate Implications mess, sorry about that.
- With the release of the inevitable child-killing mod for Fallout 3, you can now kill the disrespectful little snots at Little Lamplight and enjoy turning their heads into chunky salsa in horrifying 3D slow-motion!
Haesslich: The whole point about Fallout was that you ultimately could do whatever you wanted, but you had to live with (or at least the player had to see) the consequences of those decisions. Hide Your Children's "invulnerable children" clause was invoked for the third game due to Moral Guardians focusing more on games now than they did in the past, and probably because they have it in a FPS-style game which could draw more controversy (a la the Mass Effect Internet Counterattack 'lesbian sex scene' controversy). That's why there was a Child Killer perk in the first two games - you did it, you would become known for it and thus would be a target of opportunity for just about anyone except Slavers. The Unfortunate Implications of the Tenpenny quest is that overcoming racism means that you're going to be murdered by the people who you tried to extend the hand of peace to. Or, for that matter, that trying to help a sheriff impose peace would result in a totalitarian state (Fallout 1's original Killian Darkwater ending).
The point of the Unfortunate Implications wasn't that you couldn't kill children in the game so much as that it will let you kill them, as long as you're not shown beating them with a crowbar or shooting a missile at them. The game still lets you do it, but only if it happens without actually drawing the kids being blown to kingdom come at close range - that's the moral of the Family-Unfriendly Aesop; as long as you don't see the bodies, it's acceptable.
Bob: You know, I think we should have an article called Not An Aesop that people can refer to whenever they cut stuff that isn't actually An Aesop. Sure, Fallout 3 might not demonstrate the consequences of the player characters actions as well as its predecessors did, but that doesn't mean that the game is telling you that "as long as you don't see the bodies, it's acceptable". It's just isn't An Aesop.
Tenpenny Towers does qualify as a Family-Unfriendly Aesop, but it's not Unfortunate Implications since the ghouls aren't stand-ins for any ethnic or racial group.
Haesslich: It's more Fallout 3's a victim of the Moral Guardians, who would literally go ape and petition various governments for more restrictions on video games if there was yet another game which let you get away with killing children. Remember the 'murder simulators' strawman argument levelled against GTA and similar games; that's why they don't want to SHOW you killing children (which was indeed something you could do in previous games), but left in the ability to kill them anyways - albeit at a distance.
As for Tenpenny Tower, the complaints levelled against them ("they're GHOULS") have been used to legislate segretation in multiple cultures over the centuries; and one could, in theory, draw parallels between them and say... illegal immigration, since the residents live in a tower which is underpopulated but aren't willing to accept money from those 'smelly, dirty ghouls'.
I wouldn't say it counts as "Unfortunate Implications" for the simple reason that it's clearly shown from the beginning that Roy is an enormous asshole, personally. The whole point, as someone said above, isn't "oppressed group are dangerous and should not be helped", but rather "just because you happen to be from an oppressed group doesn't mean you aren't an enormous bigot yourself", especially since Roy comes off as this from the get-go. It's certainly fitting for a Crapsack World that some situations can't be resolved nicely for all parties involved.
Haesslich: Took out the following, since it doesn't really exist in game (per the official guide) and was only a third-party mod someone made.
- Let's not forget the scopeless .44 Magnum (only avilable trhough hacking or sheer dumb luck, unfortunately), which is capable of dishing out 9000 points of damage in one shot. The Experimental MIRV mentioned above is the only weapon capable of equaling its damage, and it fires 8 miniature nukes per shot.
Mullon: I have an idea for Suspiciously Apropos Music, but I need to know if this happens to everybody or if it just happened to me. When President Eden gives you the virus that will kill everyone except pure humans, was the title song "I Don't Want to Set the World on Fire" playing on anyone else's radio, or was it just a coincidence for me?
Springjack It was a coincidence. The radio is random. However, the entire game seems to be a meld of Suspiciously Apropos Music and Lyric Dissonance so.....
Raven Rock is neither a Shout-Out nor a Continuity Nod. Raven Rock is an actual Army installation (also known as Site R, or Raven Rock Mountain Complex). Although located near the Maryland/Pennsylvania border, geographical distances between locations in-game (Rockville, Bethesda (ahem), Germantown) and said actual locations are vastly shrunk anyways. Either way, it seems clear to me that it is a reference to the actual complex, not any prior game. Especially since one of the main purposes of the complex is a COOP (continuity of operations) for high level Pentagon personnel.
Mister Six: removed for [[Natter]]:
- The real final boss of Fallout 3 is Raven Rock, [[a military base swarming with Enclave soldiers. There are tons of them and they will kill you, many times, unless you are very clever, or the ultimate badass. President Eden is at the heart of the base, to boot.]]
- Raven Rock is even more anticlimactic [[ - after exploring the wastes and getting to Level 20 I decided to finish off the main story, suffered major yawn inducing boredom as the Enclave fell to one shot kills in VATS. I thought this game had difficulty scaling.]]
- This Troper completed Raven Rock on Very Hard. He wasn't amused by this page.
- I ran my ass through Raven Rock without killing a single person. [[Then I Talked The Monster To Death]]
- The real final boss of Fallout 3 is Raven Rock, [[a military base swarming with Enclave soldiers. There are tons of them and they will kill you, many times, unless you are very clever, or the ultimate badass. President Eden is at the heart of the base, to boot.]]
Also removed this, because these guys are just cool NP Cs, not Badass Normals.
- Also, Tycho and Cassidy, the two best party members of Fallout and Fallout 2 respectively.
Removed for [[natter]], combined into the text from the original listing:
- It's actually pretty optimistic for a Crapsack World (At least the first two games, haven't played the third yet) since civilization is actually rebuilding itself. More of A World Half Full really.
- Depending on where you live and when. Southern Oregon/Northern California/Western Nevada is a rocky desert full of slavers, raiders, tribals and crazies with technological weapons. Southern California in the first game is a desolate desert crawling with raiders and monsters outside of the isolated towns. Even two hundred years After the End, the area around Washington DC is a barren hellhole being invaded by an army of (not-so) Super Mutants, and downtown DC is pretty much a warzone. Then the Enclave shows up too. And the American Southwest in Van Buren is a mountainous desert where slavers attack the unwary, a insane "goddess" commands a army of tribals, and the nicest town (Hoover Dam) believes itself to be all that's left of the New California Republic and is locked in a hopeless war with the Brotherhood of Steel while the city slowly decays. Oh, and there is a large slaver group (inspired by the Roman Empire) whose biggest customer is a town of paranoid ghouls who use the slaves for experiments that are pure Nightmare Fuel.
- And it depends also on the player. A good character in Fallout 2 can for example end all the slaver business, help the NCR rebuild the pre-war civilization, make New Reno into a center of education... or he can play as a crazy psychopath that depopulates every town in the wasteland.
- Similarly, the player in F3 [[can bring clean, pure water to the East Coast,]] free many slaves and get rid of loads of slavers, get several towns to return to a sense of normalcy, and help write a book to help everyone survive better. Or not.
- It's actually pretty optimistic for a Crapsack World (At least the first two games, haven't played the third yet) since civilization is actually rebuilding itself. More of A World Half Full really.
Removed because SHUT UP, NERD:
- The Fat Man concept is plausible, the execution is not. The Davy Crickett's maximum range was barely above the radius of the fallout. And the Fat Man is so lowpowered that there's simply no reason to not just use a non-radioatictive explosive instead. The explosion range is also insanely puny.
Natter:
- Or, from a more upbeat perspective, most people who were generally decent would have moved to the places with democracy and other such niceties. I mean, if you could pick: wasteland, or a nice friendly western style democracy? The people who'd avoid it would generally be the scumbags with shady work. Also, the game takes place farther north in California than before—NCR, despite the name, includes just about all the areas where the original game took place - it is highly likely that it's still like that further south.
- Alternatively, it might, just might, be because the programmers had expanded technological capacity and time to lovingly detail that sort of thing.
- The canceled “Van Buren” F3 was to be set during a war between the Brotherhood and NCR over advanced technology, further pushing the wasteland into a dystopic state.
Walter Flagg: Removed some of what I thought was approaching Natter territory in the Nightmare Fuel area, but apparently someone disagreed and reverted it (I was going to post my explanation immediately after making the change, but I was doing it from my school computer lab and the proxy blocked tvtropes right after I'd saved the edit). Anyone else agree with culling the Nightmare Fuel entry, or am I just getting excessive? Also, some of the entries at least don't agree with the idea of Nightmare Fuel, since I'm pretty sure the Dunwich Building is entirely intended to be terrifying. Maybe make an entry for High Octane?
This Unnamed Troper: I Think that there should be a tropertales page for Fallout. the game had quite a few C Mo A entries before the cleanup. Besides, if there is a page for Torchlight, why not one for Fallout?
Winter: Ok, what the hell is with people editing the punctuation every few days?
