Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

OK, let's try doing this the prescribed way...

I'd have to watch the end of The Black Hole again, but I remember that Dr. Reinhardt ends up merged with Maximilian (definitely), and in Hell (apparently). I can't remember what happened to the remaining crew of the Palomino. In the book, which I have read lots of times, Dr. Reinhardt gets trapped under a falling unit in his control room, and dies in vacuum when the roof fails. End of. The remaining crew of the Palomino escape in one of Cygnus's lifeboats (which has a smaller version of the antigravity system that the Cygnus has) and fly through the black hole, get shot as constituent atoms out of a corresponding white hole, and retain their consciousnesses, having "an eternity to contemplate the universe that they had become."

I'd say that it qualifies for this trope in either version. But the entry does need fixing, and please chip in with any other useful details.

Sean Tucker: Isn't the quote a bit spoilerific? Even though the End of Eva twist is in It Was His Sled territory now, the twists given away in that page quote aren't quite there yet.
Kendra Kirai: Sorry, I couldn't resist adding in the other way to interpret a Gainax Ending.

Ununnilium: Shrink that graphic, a-please.

Kendra Kirai: Uhh, I'm having trouble making out the text as it is...

Ununnilium: But it's squishing the actual entry waaaay over! Even on my widescreen monitor!

Kendra Kirai: Well..we could try to make the entry go completely underneath the strip...or put the strip between the entry and the examples. I think I could only get maybe 5-10% smaller, if that, without turning it into an unreadable mess. Can we finagle a thumbnail link for it?

Ununnilium: I'd like some way to center an image on a line and not have any text on the sides. IS that possible? `.`

Citizen: Sheesh. Too wide. Rearranged the panels into a vertical strip; it's a little on the tall side, but better than it was.
Kendra Kirai: Just a note, the sudden jump to the fight against Big Boss is because of the removal of a cutscene showing Metal Gear plowing into New York City. MGS 2 was released shortly after september 2001, and, naturally, they didn't want to upset folks.

Fly: Yep, I know, but what was originally intended certainly isn't what eventually was presented. And even if it was what was originally intended (as described in the script in Documents of MGS 2), it's still a hardcore Gainax. (Maybe there's another trope for an ending like that, where a key scene is cut out because of fear of offending people?) If you think it's important, though, I'll add it in.

Rich: Even with the scene cut out, it's still pretty clear that Arsenal had run aground and plowed through New York, though it did all happen pretty quickly. Also, the environment didn't inexplicably change to have Raiden on the street- he just climbed down off the building off-camera. Snake's quick entrance and exit isn't inexplicable either, that just Snake being Snake. Nor was Raiden clearly in the middle of a breakdown, he was fine, all things considered. And Rose didn't show all signs of never having existed- that was a suggestion Raiden made at the end, which Snake quickly shot down- "Don't be weird, she's your girlfriend".

Fly: If I remember the scene correctly, Snake started to shoot Raiden down with that, but he countered and changed the subject. And don't forget how Rose acted in the closing sequence, juggling between 'Help me! Save me from the nasty Patriots' and being one herself - and the famous line, 'I'm real, Jack, you have to beLIEve me!'. As for Snake's quick entrance and exit, you have to remember that he was last seen in the middle of the river swimming after a robot. How he managed to meet up with Raiden at the cost of RAY is intended to be beyond us (although it'll no doubt be the victim of a Hand Wave in 4.) And THEN you have to ask yourself how Snake knew about Rose. And why the people in Manhattan didn't seem to notice Rose. And a million other things. The good thing about the ending of MGS2 was that it was intended to blow your mind into chunks, because anything other wouldn't fit the theme of the game. But I don't want to turn this page into 'discuss the ending of Sons of Liberty'. (Anyone up for discussing Neon Genesis Evangelion?)

Tonkarz: Don't forget the end of credits revelation that the patriots have apparently been dead for over 100 years. And on the topic of Arsenal plowing into New York, I'm surprised that people are saying the scene was cut out. I can remember it quite clearly. I guess they put it back in in later releases or something.

Sockatume: In the full version, we would have seen Arsenal demolishing skyscrapers, including (IIRC) the majority of the World Trade Centre complex, with Solidus Snake snatching a Stars and Stripes from the front of the New York Stock Exchange as the machine roars past. In the finished game, we just see the aftermath. I'm going to cut that section down, though, frankly alluding to the madness should be enough.

Man Called True: An acquaintance/Worthy Opponent of mine insists that Gunbuster actually still had a budget for those last episodes, and that the last episodes were done in greyscale (which is rather expensive), not black and white. Anyone else hear it?

Dr Dedman: It's intentional. I was at an interview with the writer/co-founder and budget didn't enter into it (Nadia was mentioned, and appolgized for). They didn't have much in the way of budget issues on Gun Buster, they came out slowly and spaced enough that they knew it was a hit by the time ep. 6 came out. Gainax DID have time/money issues on Nadia (island episodes, cause the series was stretched), and Eva (cause they were doing OVA work on a TV budget).

Seth: How was the end of Lawn Dogs that confusing? It was a bit of a genre shift but that is a classic fairy tale that most people know.

Psyclone: Can the infamous "There was no monster" ending of Monster a Go-Go be considered an example of a Gainax Ending? It's pretty obvious that they ran out of money and that was pretty confusing... Though it could simply be an Ass Pull.

Ninjacrat: Pulled
  • Even though it was produced by Gainax themselves (and thus we really should have known better), this editor believes that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is significant for being one of the clearest examples of this trope: despite having the Screw Destiny Aesop force-fed throughout the entire show via In the Name of the Moon and What Do You Mean, It's Not Awesome? moments, the last episode sees Simon's love Nia die despite the fact that everything he had done for the past ten episodes had been to save her, ending the series on an unmistakable You Can't Fight Fate Broken Aesop. While some argue that Simon's refusal to use his god-like powers to bring her back was a sign of his maturity and determination not to make the same mistakes others had made, to most it was a slap in the face to everything that the show had stood for up to that point.

because A: that's not a Gainax Ending and B: it's really pissy and moany (do people really use the phrase 'slap in the face' unironically? Yikes.)

I didn't read the spoiler, but yes, we do. —Document N
Burai Regarding:
** It was also hilarious. And not in a Narm kind of way. It was an elaborate joke played on the readers.

I didn't read the book, but I do note that it currently costs $30-40, and I have to wonder: when a "joke" takes money out of the hands of the intended butt of that joke, don't we call that a confidence game?

Dentaku: How could the ending of every episode of Mahoromatic be considered a Gainax Ending? I think it should fit the ending of a series as a whole. And speaking of that: I don't think the ending of Mahoromatic is a Gainax Ending either since it is very well explained what is going on. Okay, it's smarmy, but still...
Fire Walk: I'd personally question Indiana Jones being that much of a Gainax ending, but we sure don't need two references to it.
  • And originally, it was supposed to be a simple story of Snake taking on another set of terrorists.
Does the "it" here refer to MGS 2 or 4? —Document N
Dentaku: I don't think the Monthy Python example qualifies as an example of this trope. It's also way too detailed.

The Dead Parrot or the Holy Grail one? Either way, my vote would be shorten rather than cut. —Document N

Caswin: While it does tend to blindside you the first time through, after watching Holy Grail again, the ending actually has legitimate foreshadowing. It might still qualify, but what happens is justified, in that offbeat Python way.

I wonder if some of the entries would be more readable in list form rather than as solid blocks of text. —Document N

Man Without A Body: Can we please change the name of this to something less obscure? 2001 is the most famous example of this, and it isn't from Gainax. Why can't we just call this Weird Ending?

Isn't FLCL actually not a Gainax ending, since it ends as planned, in step with the themes and style of the rest of the show? If anything it's an aversion.

Caswin: The entry on The Bible doesn't feel right — namely, the bit on interpreting Revelation. I've certainly heard that reading, that it all refers to then-current events and the Roman empire, but if it were the consensus of nearly all of the academic community, I can't help but think I'd hear about it more often.