This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Killer Squid: Not sure if I should remove LICD or not. Although it is definitely a Refugein Audacity, I'm not sure if it would truly qualify for So Bad Its Horrible status, for the following reasons mainly: 1. It has a huge fanbase. 2. It has a lot of quality, even with its Stu character. 3. It may be Complaining About Shows You Dont Like.
If someone wants to remove it, go ahead, I'm not an experienced enough Troper to decide correctly.
Willy Four Eyes: Removed the Powerup Comics example, as it's already listed in Stealth Parody.
Removed the Ctrl Alt Del example. As large an Internet Backdraft source as it is, its base quality is too high for this trope. So Bad Its Horrible needs excessive awfulness, not mediocrity mixed with Small Name, Big Ego and outrage at its surprising popularity.
- On many forums, defending Ctrl Alt Del (by Tim "B^U" Buckley) will get you laughed out of the room. The author's nickname comes from his characters' only facial expression.
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- I think CAD should stay up there. It mixes cut & paste art with gaussian blended backgrounds, the jokes aren't funny, the storyline is horrible, it's got walls 'o text left, right, and center, he forces every comic to stretch to four panels, and the punchline in almost every comic is explained in panel 3 and part of 4, with violence finishing it off. The only thing I can credit him with is that his sci-fi stories are merely bad, not awful, especially considering they are basically CYOA's.
Removed Unicorn Jelly, not because I personally have any affection for it (I got bored and gave up reading it very early on) but because it has a fairly large and enthusiastic fanbase, making it disingenuous to claim that we can't find anyone to come forward and admit to liking it.
- Putting it back. Popular =/= good. Besides, the entry wasn't for Unicorn Jelly, it was for Pastel Defender Heliotrope - which does not have UJ's fanbase.
- Good is subjective. Nothing is unanimously liked, or even close to, but there are plenty of works that are bad enough to be near unanimously disliked, which is how they qualify for this category. There may be plenty of people who don't like Heliotrope who liked UJ, but there remains a not insignificant fanbase.
ThisTroper: I have to thank you for the link to the entertaining webcomic, but it doesn't belong here. The "So Bad It's Horrible" page is for complete crap. The completely accurate description of the relationship between priests and altar boys was actually a point in its favor.
Willy Four Eyes: If the entry being nominated for SBIH is Heliotrope, then it ought to be about Heliotrope and not Unicorn Jelly. The UJ part should be removed in its entirety.
Filby: Took out the UJ subscript about the author. She may be a rotten person, but I have transgendered friends, and I don't appreciate the implication that being a transwoman makes someone creepy. Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment, people.
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Jack Chick tracts are older than the Internet—they were originally true comics. Still, it's undeniable that most of us see them as webcomics now. Should the Chick-tract entry be copied into the So Bad Its Horrible Comics section, left here, or what?
Willy Four Eyes: Put it in So Bad, It's Good. Chick Tracts have too much unintentional Narm to be truly considered "horrible".
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Cut this and put it here. As currently phrased, people think Unicorn Jelly is an entry when it isn't supposed to be. The one time I tried to rephrase it to make it clear that Pastel Defender Heliotrope was the intended So Bad Its Horrible comic, the entry got pulled by someone who thought "Heliotrope"'s attacks on Catholicism were good enough to redeem that strip.
- Unicorn Jelly started off as a cute (if occasionally stunningly violent) fantasy comic that slowly but surely devolved into an incomprehensible mishmash of Take Thats against the Catholic Church, New Age-ish babble and random ultra-violence. This is not the SBIH Webcomic, though; that would be its followup, Pastel Defender Heliotrope, which ramped up Unicorn Jelly's incomprehensibility and Take That! factor times 20.
- This troper will take the "we're still looking" at the top of the page at face value and state that he unreservedly likes Unicorn Jelly. That said, he agrees there was a definite drop in quality with Pastel Defender Heliotrope, albeit perhaps not enough to put it here.
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Why are we using spoiler tags in a So Bad Its Horrible section? It's not as if we want anyone to seek these works out for themselves (the links are to prove they are what they are); we can't ruin a So Bad Its Horrible work by giving away the plot. Or are we simply trying to hide the explicit nature of the plot of the webcomic we've spoiler-cut?
Nezumi: Probably. It didn't used to be. But said plot is so nonsensical, awful, explicitly sexual, and insane that they're probably trying to protect anyone but the morbidly curious.
Ethereal Mutation: Cut time.
- Most of the now ex-webcomics featured and picked apart on MSTron.
- Seemed like most of 'em weren't that bad, just boring. And suffered from furry Author Appeal.
- Polymer City Chronicles was actually done not so much because it really deserved it, but because one of the editors of that site had it as an Old Shame.
- Seemed like most of 'em weren't that bad, just boring. And suffered from furry Author Appeal.
Pretty much everything on that site is So Bad, It's Good, actually. Or just regular bad turned into So Bad, It's Good via commentary. Hell, one of their targets (Sabrina Online) is still going on today.
- Kit n' Kay Boodle, a furry webcomic that basically revolves around sex. No, really. Sex is treated as a civic duty in the comic's fictional town. One particular storyline has two characters getting it on ''while the girl's mother masturbates to it.
- This troper confesses to considering KnK a Guilty Pleasure... up until A) the title characters became avatars to the Gods of Yiff and B) a filler arc had the artist and his (real-life) girlfriend's "fursonas" watching their parents (his dad, her mom) go at it.
Contested, plus the subject matter by itself doesn't make it horrible as per the disclaimer on all of the pages.
- Powerup Comics seems to represent almost everything that can be wrong with a webcomic... intentionally! It's a Stealth Parody that attempts to parody a subject (bad Two Gamers on a Couch webcomics) that is impossible to parody.
Already listed in So Bad, It's Good.
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Cut this and put it here. It's possible for a Horrible comic to have tolerable art; but if the art is spectacular, than that's a truly redeeming feature - the work could be a Guilty Pleasure. (Oh, and since this appears to be a David Gonterman comic, does it affect the general Gonterman entry?)
- Rework the Dead (link is the MSTing) is a comic about furries who are at war with zombies (called in the comic "redeads"). The comic features crappy MS Paint colouring, Rouge Angles of Satin, gorn filled deaths, frightening amounts of wangst, and an overly long, boring and confusing storyline. Unfortunately for the collective sanity of mankind, there is also a part two.
- I'd just like to point out that the lineart is very well done. Really. If you're looking for how to do pixel lineart, RTD has it down. Sorry, uncanny valley of low quality kicked in and I saw the one beautiful point of light glinting off of the shit pile.
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Another thought: Sonichu and Raichu is definitely a Web Comic. But is it Fan Art? And if it is, should we list it under Fan Fiction as well?
Twin Bird: I don't care for Look What I Brought Home, but if it got onto Keenspot, someone does, so it probably doesn't belong here. Especially not as a "raw entry."
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Look, we are looking for the worst of the published works. Of course someone likes it, even if it's only the creator - else we wouldn't get to see it. We're just aiming for as few as possible... But does Keenspot have many restrictions on what gets published on its site? Or will it take anyone willing to pay for a webpage and meet Terms Of Service? Odds are, it's maybe a step or two above Fanfiction.net, and thus doesn't have a lot of quality control. So horrible comics on Keenspot should be, in theory, more horrible than horrible comics on the normal Horrible/Comics page; the pro syndicates and Marvel and DC should have more editorial say then Keenspot, and thus fewer truly horrible comics. (Though Joe Quesada and whoever's editing The DCU Bat-comics might be slipping.)
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: On the other hand, yes, if that comic was to be listed here, we do need an explanation why. It's not safe to assume that anything is self-explanatory.
Twin Bird: Um...Keenspot is definitely more selective than Fanfiction.net; there are only about thirty comics, and although it's not what it used to be (Schlock Mercenary, the Walkyverse, Checkerboard Nightmare, Queen Of Wands...), getting on ("they come to you") still means cross-marketing from the Campbell/Lagace comics, Tiffany Ross's comics, College Roomies From Hell, Punch An Pie, etc. Are you thinking of Keenspace (the old name of Comicgen)?
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Yes, probably. I'd ask when they changed the name; I don't think I need to ask why, trademark laws being what they are.
Twin Bird: 2005. They're actually owned by the same people; the reason is that they wanted to end the impression that hosting on Keenspace would make you more likely to "graduate" to Keenspot.
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Cut this and put it here. The comic as a whole isn't horrible if there are frequently patches of funny strips. This is what you get for listing something without doing an Archive Binge first. (Of course, if you do Archive Binge before listing, you need lots of Brain Bleach...)
- It's well-established that when Ralph E. Hayes steps away from the political strawmen and anvils, he makes decent-to-good comics. Unfortunately, his Camp Calomine is nothing but one continuous, Anvilicious Take That! whose every punchline can be summed up as "LOL Stupid Liberals". This comic pretty much sums the whole thing up.
- While I'm in agreement that when the comic's focusing on the camp being poorly managed because it's run by liberals it belongs firmly in this category, there's a lot of "Charles messing with the management because it's fun" in between and some of that can be pretty hilarious. See this comic for an example of the strip at its best, although if you can't stomach the sudden shifts when you go from laughing to being annoyed by an excess of anvils, you should still avoid this comic like the plague.
- While I'm in agreement that when the comic's focusing on the camp being poorly managed because it's run by liberals it belongs firmly in this category, there's a lot of "Charles messing with the management because it's fun" in between and some of that can be pretty hilarious. See this comic
Caswin: I'm not familiar with Sonichu, but between its own description and what it says here — how it's downright "awesomely lame" — would it not fit better in a So Bad, It's Good page?
Antwan: It would belong there...if it didn't have so many Wall Banger moments. Trust me, it's cool over here.
Great Pikmin Fan: Cut:
- Chaos Comes to Quahog - Family Guy meets Warhammer40000; it's exactly what you'd expect it to be, except even worse.
- So much wasted potential
Non explanitory.
Antwan: The link on the Angel Warrior Comics entry seems to be broken now. We need an explanation on why it's bad. Any takers? Edit: Never mind. It's fine. But I think I'll try to transfer that information here just in case...
Sgt Hydra: I usually don't complain about other people's opinions, but I for one am insulted when a comic such as Abstract Gender is place alongside Sonichu and Single Asian Female. Bad art and Waangst are not the only prerequisites for So Bad It's Horrible. There's another entire level of awful that one has to cross to get put here. I'd say this is a case of Complaining About Shows You Dont Like. The evidence for AG being an alleged SBIH is: 1. Wallbanger plots, 2. Bad Art, 3. Greedy Creator/"Author," and 4. Waangst. These and these alone are the reasons given and are not enough to be placed here imho. The comic itself is sub par. Not bad, not terrible, not horrible, and most certianly neither average nor good, but simply sub par. So yeah, I give it to the Troper's Guild to decide whether or not to remove Abstract Gender from this list. Think about what makes a SBIH and see if AG truely qualifies.
Twin Bird: gahars seems deadset on getting Transformation Comics on this list (also The Wotch and The Dragon Doctors, but those were pulled); yeah, it doesn't belong. Hell, even John Solomon basically said it was mediocre.
Antwan: Can somebody tell me why The Easy Breather was removed? Because I sure as heck can't find the reason.
Caswin: It wouldn't surprise me if that was the author's doing. He visits occasionally and is apparently rather protective of his work.
Twin Bird: gahars, no one is going to email you. If you want to argue, argue here.
Kizor: Seconded. What gahars wanted to cover in e-mail is his insistence of including Abstract Gender, which I've removed. It's bad, but not bad enough to stand out by the nonexistent standards of the medium, and it isn't racist, sexist, covered in inappropriateness for its own sake, or a sign that the author may be a threat to those around him. And I don't get what the lack of a fan base is supposed to signify when the comic stopped long ago.
Gahars: Let me explain. For the email thing, I was still new to the site back then, and didn't really know all of the features, and i thought email was the only real way to communicate, besides the forum. Chalk it up to newbishness. Second, yes, I did write entries for AG and the Wotch, though I have never heard of the Dragon Doctors. You must be mixing me up with someone else. Third, I felt that the comic should be added for its horrible art, writing, story, and money grubbing author, who I failed to mention when I wrote, so that's just my bad, again. There may be worse, but it's still pretty wretched (And I'm not alone in that opinion http://badwebcomics.wikidot.com/abstract-gender), so that's why I felt it should be here. Lastly, for the whole fanbase thing, I meant to say that it is now nonexistant. After the webcomic and the scripts died, the fanbase moved on. There may be one or two individuals on the web who think it's great, but I don't think that is enough to disqualify it. So there. I won't add it again unless is some more approval here for it, but there's my two cents.
^And sorry for the endless stream of words.
Pannic: Yeah. That article calls it "poorly done," "generic," and "middle-of-the-road." Isn't So Bad Its Horrible generally supposed to be reserved for things that are atrociously vile? As opposed to stupid, boring, and lame?
Sgt Hydra: Apparently I've contracted a severe case of Bile Fasination with regards to Single Asian Female. Is there any other archive of it besides ED? That little ball of lulz (and p0rn) is a place I try to avoid like the plague, thus being the reason for my question. Also, their archive was, last time I checked, far from complete. So yeah. Put a link to a Single Asian Female archive, if you would be so kind. If none exists and all the comics are lost for good, then I guess that's that then.
Pannic: Deleted the following:
- A little something called Comic Hideout. It's puzzlingly bad in terms of story and art. It follows the ActionGirl, Heléna Kestra Bury and an ineffectual superhero PJ. It isn't offensive in any way, it's just has very derivative jokes and characters. It's almost SoOkayItsAverage but falls short.
Okay, between this, the convo about Abstract Gender, and that guy who wanted to put Ctrl Alt Del on here, I think we need to clarify - So Bad Its Horrible is not simply "bad." It is not mediocrity, it is not garden-variety Sturgeon's Law. So Bad Its Horrible is far beyond this. There's So Okay, It's Average. Then there's regular bad works, which are worse than that. After that, there's So Bad, It's Good, which are works that are so bad that they become enjoyable because of their badness, in unintentional hilarity (or intentional if it's going for camp). So Bad Its Horrible is when the work goes far beyond that level of awful into something disgustingly cringeworthy. I haven't actually read the thing, but by what the person says about it being "almost So Okay, It's Average but falls short," that seems to contradict what So Bad Its Horrible means.
