Discussion Main / ForeverWar

This image does not at all demonstrate this trope, can we get a better one?

Hi people, in regards to this section here: "According to a UN statistic published in 2000 in the 100 years of the 20th Century there have been roughly 5 minutes of peace. The rest of the time there was a war being fought somewhere on Earth. Despite that, however, it was actually less violent than any previous century going by percentage of population lost. "

I found that interesting and was wondering if anyone knows of a link to the original report containing this statistic? I can't seem to find anything online.

Thanks. :-)

What is more interesting, are the ramifications of having entire generations grow up knowing nothing but the struggles of constant war. Which we've kind of already seen with child soldiers. Now, if it(Israel/Palestine) continues for another 40 years or so(or any general human war, for 100 years in total), we risk not only an entire generation, but essentially, all currently alive generations knowing nothing but constant war.

If The Forever War isn't the trope namer, what (if anything) is?

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Moved from main page.

• The Israel-Palestine war doesn't really fit this trope, because the reasons for the war were very specific and everyone remembers them. Palestinians want their land back and Israel wants to continue to exist on that land, the situation hasn't changed in the last 60 years (actually it got worse), so the war continues. And of course, extremists on both sides constantly remind everybody else exactly why they shouldn't just "let it go".
• Israel and the Palestinians may get the most press but there are wars down there that have gone on before either country existed. The whole area is one big We ARE Struggling Together.
• At the beginning of recorded history it was ALREADY like that.
  • But the trope is specifically about two sides that are fighting forever. The region's seen a lot of wars, given the multitude of nations that coveted it for its resources, religious locations and strategic position, but each time it was between different factions, the vast majority of which haven't existed for a few milennia. So it isn't one war going on for a long time, it's just lots of different wars.
  • If you want to take the Biblical reason for it, it goes back to the time Abraham had an affair (with his wife's permission, but still...) and fathered a son, Ishmael, who he treated as his heir until he fathered a son (Isaac) with his actual wife some fifteen years later. After some contention, Ishmael and his mother were banished into the desert. As the story goes, God chose to keep Abraham's illegitimate son from dying in the desert, but decreed that his children and Isaac's children would be forever at war. Ishmael's children became the Arabs (who conquered and married the natives of most of the rest of the Middle East), and Isaac's children the Jews.
• It is starting to cool down— Jordan and Egypt have definitely reconciled with Israel, to the point that when Iran threatened Israel, they said that they would side with their former enemy if war broke out.
  • The peace treaties were signed between Israel and the (very long-term) governments of Jordan and Egypt - the people of these countries do not generally support it, so if either government ever collapses, the peace would be in serious danger. Don't count your eggs before they've hatched...
  • Not so much. (1) As you've noted, neither government will collapse. (2) Any successor government is, at least in theory, bound to continue any agreement entered into by its predecessor, and the successor would be liable to actually maintain it, in the name of the status quo (governments in power quickly find that the status quo is preferable). (3) None of the Arab states these days have any real reason to fight; they have their own problems. Only Syria and Lebanon would stand to gain anything (for Syria, the Golan, and for Lebanon, Israel not constantly attacking them), but both recognize that (a) they are hopelessly overmatched (especially Lebanon), and (b) threats of war are better domestic bargaining chips than actual war (which might cause the government's demise if it loses). The rest of the Arab states are even less keen on the idea, either because of geographical separation (e.g. the whole of North Africa) or lack of benefit (e.g. Saudi Arabia, which doesn't recognize Israel chiefly because that plays well with the masses and would recognize Israel as soon as that whole Palestine thing is settled).

Cattle die, kinsmen die. You yourself will surely die. Only word-fame dies not, for one who well achieves it. Hide / Show Replies