A more general question on the TV Tropes' pages for Legacy of the Void and the Starcraft 2 Coop : should the entries about the Coop Mode in the Lot V's Awesome and YMMV (and maybe others, I didn't check all of them) pages be separated from the Lot V's pages and moved in their own new pages in the Starcraft 2 Coop section ? In my opinion, it will be more clear and clean like this.
Just asking.
Edited by CybranLord
Purifier Executor
Does Stukov really need his own section? Sure, his whole "infested Terran" theme fuses aspects of Terran and Zerg gameplay, but the game itself considers him a Zerg commander, and he's definitely more Zerg than Terran. I think it's time to move him into the Zerg Commanders section.
Edited by Akamia You seek our aid? Hide / Show Replies
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
I'm cutting this trope entry in Zeratul's folder:
- Awesome, but Impractical: One of Zeratul's Tier II masteries reduces the downtime between Artifact fragments appearing on the map, allowing him to get online much faster than usual. However, by default Zeratul can make do well enough without the reduction, and it becomes useless after picking up the third fragment anyway, so its utility boils down to being achievement assistance, where one must collect every piece on Hard in less than 12 minutes. And even then it's not required to have since a reasonably competent player can acquire all three fragments in less than that on Brutal difficulty.
I understand the sentiment behind it, but every mastery has at least some use to somebody. If someone wants to get all three artifacts as quickly as possible and that mastery lets them do it, then it's absolutely serving a practical purpose. Two minutes is a very long time in Starcraft II; a lot can happen in that time. Cutting that wait time in half is not something to dismiss out of hand. Plus it doesn't have to provide ongoing benefits in its own right; the sheer force of power boost that acquiring an artifact fragment confers army-wide is IMO reason enough to get it.
The thing about masteries is that they are only really useful or not depending on your playstyle. Swann's mastery that decreases the build time of the Drakken Laser Drill by up to 45% is no use if you don't upgrade it, for instance. Feel free to add it back, but if you do, at least add a caveat of "won't mean much if you know each map well enough to require little guidance" or something. Personally it can be like looking for a needle in a haystack.
On the mass reversion of The_Spanish_Inquisitor's orders, I wanna explain why each of those was removed for a reason:
- Awesome, but Impractical:
- How is it impractical to spend 75/75 on an upgrade to make three Heroes permanent Detectors? If anything, relying on Sykes' turrets for Detection when they are easily destroyed, have timed life, and are immobile, is far more impractical.
- Lt. Nikara is awesome, but not impractical, as the page admits she is great at healing the team.
- Up To Eleven: You can very easily hit Level 5 upgrades in a standard match. Even when actually at level 5, the sum total of both upgrades at once is just slightly more than it costs to upgrade a hero's kit, so it's not a huge sacrifice. Add on that Tychus has no use for resources once he maxes out his kits and yeah, you can end up sitting on large caches of resources.
1. Depends on your playstyle, really. Admittedly that wasn't the best way to do it, since I was attempting the Buy Buy Buy achievement at the time of writing, which demanded a very specific build order that skipped the EB and its upgrades entirely. I preferred turrets over merc detectors since they can be deployed over a larger range than Nikara and Vega's detection radius, which gives me more leg room as I move my party around almost constantly.
2. Nikara being impractical was a bit of a bias on my part, too, since she's incapable of attacks, while Rattlesnake is. Assuming you deploy Nikara first, it'd only be a party of one and a half, since the other member can't do anything but heal, while with Rattlesnake you could attack, heal and buff at the same time.
3. Backpedaling to my achievement attempt. I found out during my many tries that you don't really need the health/damage upgrades to survive Brutal. In fact I went many games without even building the EB. And since the merc gears are the major resource sinks in a Buy Buy Buy run, I tend to focus on them first, which leaves little time to research the health/damage upgrades. Of course, you could do it by dragging a game on like you said, but who has the time?
Enough. Is Enough. Faction Calculus is not based on "how expensive" a unit is, it's based on mobility and utility spells as opposed to raw power and simple cost-efficency.
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If I may; I'm not involved in this particular edit conflict (well, not until now anyway), but here are some excerpts from the Faction Calculus article that may be causing trouble here.
Powerhouse - Quality over Quantity. Powerhouse armies are going to rely on small numbers of powerful units with high stats and great strength. Due to resource demands, however, they probably won't be as numerous as other factions. Any special abilities they have will focus on powering them up in battle or dealing heavy damage to enemies.
Subversive - Quantity over Quality. Subversive armies will be able to field larger numbers of troops, but they won't be much good in a fight. However, they're unlikely to rely on a Zerg Rush, though it is possible. Instead they'll be the Combat Pragmatists, utilizing stealth, deception, infiltration, and disabling abilities to get the advantage on enemies that way.
Nova's arsenal is very much based around quality over quantity, as she has a 100 supply limit, and all her units, individually, are all far more powerful than the base units Raynor and Swann field. In addition, only 3 units in her arsenal can actually stealth unaided; Spec Ops ghosts, Banshees, and Nova herself. All the others require the Raven MK II's healing drone, and even then, that only works with an upgrade. She hits several marks of a Powerhouse commander.
Raynor, on the other hand, is very definitely not quality over quantity. One of the most popular unit comps for Raynor is marine/marauder/medic, maybe firebats in there too sometimes. He can have armies of over a hundred total units this way. I don't think even Swann can field so many units at once. Actually, I think that's very nearly enough reason to qualify Raynor for Horde rather than either Balanced or Subversive if it weren't for the fact that his tech, although seldom used as far as I've been able to see, is also quite viable.
At any rate, ironically enough, I'm not sure Nova being labeled Subversive is accurate. In spite of her stealth assets, she really does have far more in common with the Powerhouse style than the Subversive one, on paper and in practice.
Edited by Akamia You seek our aid?
Agreed with Nova being Powerhouse and Raynor being Horde, for the precise reasons you describe. It really is ironic that the Ghost commander relies more on brute overwhelming power than stealth and subterfuge, but it's how Nova is.
Do people think Co-op mode is substantial enough to need its own main page?