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itstrishaagain
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Okay for anyone who wasn\'t sure what I meant by my edit reasons I\'ll explain in more detail:
1. Dwayne saying that is unintentional.
2. Marie making those snarky comments is unintentional.
3. Rick flirting with Nancy is unintentional.
1. Dwayne saying that is unintentional.
2. Marie making those snarky comments is unintentional.
3. Rick flirting with Nancy is unintentional.
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It\'s not quote-mining. The clear meaning of the paragraph is that the trope is sometimes used while avoiding \
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It\\\'s not quote-mining. The clear meaning of the paragraph is that the trope is sometimes used while avoiding \\\"actual incest.\\\" Otherwise, why bring it up at all?
It is not a subversion. A subversion is when \\\"[a] work makes you think a trope is going to happen, but it doesn\\\'t.\\\" Applied to BrotherSisterIncest, that would mean that the work leads you to believe that an incestuous attraction is going to develop between siblings, or that an actual incestuous union will happen between siblings, but then it doesn\\\'t. Alternately, a subversion would also be when the work leads the audience to believe that two characters in a romantic relationship are going to be revealed to be siblings, but then it turns out that they are not. That does not apply here at all. The relationship between Barry and Iris is a known quantity: they are foster-siblings, since Barry was raised alongside Iris by Iris\\\' father. Barry\\\'s feelings for Iris are a known quantity: he desires her romantically. There\\\'s no subversion. It might be a subversion insofar as the show might be leading the audience to believe that the incestuous attraction will be consummated, only to surprise us when it is not, but only in that sense.
Likewise, it is not an aversion. An aversion is when \\\"the trope just isn\\\'t there\\\" at all. The trope is here. Barry and Iris were raised in the same house by the same person. They are foster siblings. Barry is romantically interested in Iris. The trope is not being averted. An aversion of the trope would be if neither of them ever developed any romantic feelings for the other, or if they had not been raised together in the first place.
Having the feelings beforehand might change things, but there is no way Barry realistically had romantic feelings at an age when his mother was still tucking him into bed at night and telling him that he did not need to be scared of the dark. Children at that emotional level do not develop romantic or sexual attraction. Furthermore, if the show did in fact say he was eleven years old at the time, then the show writers either have no idea about how eleven-year-olds behave, or they were deliberately portraying Barry as seriously emotionally underdeveloped and immature. No emotionally mature eleven-year-old should need his mother to tuck him in at night and tell him not to be scared of the dark. So his chronological age does not matter. His emotional maturity was that of a much younger child.
Of course Barry\\\'s relationship to Joe affects his relationship to Iris. I\\\'m floored that you would say otherwise with a straight face. Joe is Iris\\\' father. Joe raised Barry alongside Iris. Joe was not just a vaguely paternal mentor to Barry; Joe was Barry\\\'s adoptive dad.
The fact that Eddie thought there might have been a possible or potential romantic relationship between Barry and Iris says nothing about whether Eddie or anyone else would see the relationship as appropriate. Moreover, even if it were seen as appropriate in-story, that has nothing to do with whether it is this trope. Main-page tropes are ones that are objectively in the story. Moreover, it is certainly possible to write a story in which actual blood-sibling incestuous unions are considered socially acceptable in-story; such stories would still qualify for this trope.
The only difference between Barry and Iris\\\' relationship and those of other siblings is that, one, Barry is Iris\\\' adopted sibling, and, two, Barry has romantic feelings for his adopted sibling. The former does not disqualify it from being this trope, and the latter is the essence of this trope.
Finally, look, at this point we are just repeating the same points we made in our private correspondence. The whole reason you wanted to take this discussion to here was to get others\\\' opinions. To that end, why don\\\'t we agree not to post further for, say, 48 hours, to give others a chance to chime in? Otherwise, we may as well go back to discussing it in private?
It is not a subversion. A subversion is when \\\"[a] work makes you think a trope is going to happen, but it doesn\\\'t.\\\" Applied to BrotherSisterIncest, that would mean that the work leads you to believe that an incestuous attraction is going to develop between siblings, or that an actual incestuous union will happen between siblings, but then it doesn\\\'t. Alternately, a subversion would also be when the work leads the audience to believe that two characters in a romantic relationship are going to be revealed to be siblings, but then it turns out that they are not. That does not apply here at all. The relationship between Barry and Iris is a known quantity: they are foster-siblings, since Barry was raised alongside Iris by Iris\\\' father. Barry\\\'s feelings for Iris are a known quantity: he desires her romantically. There\\\'s no subversion. It might be a subversion insofar as the show might be leading the audience to believe that the incestuous attraction will be consummated, only to surprise us when it is not, but only in that sense.
Likewise, it is not an aversion. An aversion is when \\\"the trope just isn\\\'t there\\\" at all. The trope is here. Barry and Iris were raised in the same house by the same person. They are foster siblings. Barry is romantically interested in Iris. The trope is not being averted. An aversion of the trope would be if neither of them ever developed any romantic feelings for the other, or if they had not been raised together in the first place.
Having the feelings beforehand might change things, but there is no way Barry realistically had romantic feelings at an age when his mother was still tucking him into bed at night and telling him that he did not need to be scared of the dark. Children at that emotional level do not develop romantic or sexual attraction. Furthermore, if the show did in fact say he was eleven years old at the time, then the show writers either have no idea about how eleven-year-olds behave, or they were deliberately portraying Barry as seriously emotionally underdeveloped and immature. No emotionally mature eleven-year-old should need his mother to tuck him in at night and tell him not to be scared of the dark. So his chronological age does not matter. His emotional maturity was that of a much younger child.
Of course Barry\\\'s relationship to Joe affects his relationship to Iris. I\\\'m floored that you would say otherwise with a straight face. Joe is Iris\\\' father. Joe raised Barry alongside Iris. Joe was not just a vaguely paternal mentor to Barry; Joe was Barry\\\'s adoptive dad.
The fact that Eddie thought there might have been a possible or potential romantic relationship between Barry and Iris says nothing about whether Eddie or anyone else would see the relationship as appropriate. Moreover, even if it were seen as appropriate in-story, that has nothing to do with whether it is this trope. Main-page tropes are ones that are objectively in the story. Moreover, it is certainly possible to write a story in which actual blood-sibling incestuous unions are considered socially acceptable in-story; such stories would still qualify for this trope.
The only difference between Barry and Iris\\\' relationship and those of other siblings is that, one, Barry is Iris\\\' adopted sibling, and, two, Barry has romantic feelings for his adopted sibling. The former does not disqualify it from being this trope, and the latter is the essence of this trope.
Finally, look, at this point we are just repeating the same points we made in our private correspondence. The whole reason you wanted to take this discussion to here was to get others\\\' opinions. To that end, why don\\\'t we agree not to post further for, say, 48 hours, to give others a chance to chime in? Otherwise, we may as well go back to discussing it in private?
