Discussion History VideoGame / TimeCrisis

The ponies not believing Twilight didn\\\'t do anything as far as making things worse, since Chrysalis had caught on to Twilight already by that point. In fact, they ended up helping the villain [[NiceJobFixingItVillain fix everything]] by becoming arrogant enough to try to actually get rid of Twilight (who, being already aware that Twilight was suspicious of her, was more than likely going to do this anyway even if Twilight didn\\\'t cause everyone to leave her alone) and leading her to the real Cadence. \\\"Stopping an evil plot sooner than anticipated\\\" isn\\\'t what this trope means, and it\\\'s also not a hypothetical \\\"well if \\\'\\\'this\\\'\\\' didn\\\'t happen, then \\\'\\\'this\\\'\\\' could have happened\\\". The only way for the trope to apply was if Chrysalis\\\'s plan was going to fail \\\'\\\'then and there\\\'\\\' had everyone not believe Twilight.

The show itself also [[IdiotBall goes out of]] [[WhatAnIdiot its way]] to show why everyone else would have trouble believing Twilight, who\\\'s usually \\\'\\\'much\\\'\\\' better about this sort of thing. Now remember to assume that the other Manes A) don\\\'t know Cadence personally, \\\'\\\'but\\\'\\\' B) knows that Twilight is very protective of her brother. Also keep in mind that Twilight was trying to accuse Cadence of being \\\'\\\'evil\\\'\\\', rather than being a fraud, which is a more plausible accusation.

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Starting with the biggest ones:

* \\\'\\\'\\\'No Evidence:\\\'\\\'\\\' The most damning is that Twilight lacked evidence, particularly since the episode before the two parter showed that she likes to have her facts straight before doing things like this. She basically just burst into the wedding hall and [[YouHaveToBelieveMe expected everyone to consider her accusations at face value]].

* \\\'\\\'\\\'She\\\'s EVIL:\\\'\\\'\\\' Trying to accuse someone of being evil is a high claim, and all Twilight had to go on was her own perceptions. Unfortunately, she had no way of knowing that Cadence was a fake, otherwise it might have been more believable to her audience (considering that Armor saying that the bridesmaids were cast off because they wanted to meet royalty as a bad thing), especially with the security heightened at the time.

* \\\'\\\'\\\'I Guess You Just Didn\\\'t Care:\\\'\\\'\\\' Armor had a reasonable rebuttal for everything Twilight was accusing Cadence of, \\\'\\\'even if a couple of answers were due to his mind being controlled\\\'\\\'. This combined with the above is what set everyone against her.
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The rest of this is either mentioned straight out in the episode or heavily implied:

* \\\'\\\'\\\'B.B.B.F.F.:\\\'\\\'\\\'Twilight is \\\'\\\'immediately\\\'\\\' shown to be over-protective of her brother as soon as she finds out he\\\'s getting married. She shows obvious indignation at \\\"Princess Mi Amore Cadenza\\\" until she realizes who that is, even after Shining Armor managed to calm her down from her initial angry state upon reuniting with him. \\\'\\\'All\\\'\\\' of Twilight\\\'s friends noticed this and call her out on it when Twilight tries to get her friends to agree with her that Cadence became a huge jerk.
** At this point, Chrysalis seems to have caught on to Twilight being suspicious, and subsequently \\\"bought\\\" Twilight\\\'s friends out by making them the bridesmaids to keep their own suspicions from raising.

* \\\'\\\'\\\'Who\\\'s Cadence?:\\\'\\\'\\\' None of Twilight\\\'s friends know who Cadence is personally, other than Armor, and there isn\\\'t a scene that actually shows Twilight telling them about how Cadence was in the past at all (there was a short bit of dialogue when Twilight was with Rarity and her dresses, but that seemed more like she was complaining about Cadence\\\'s behavior at Applejack\\\'s). They basically went from hearing (based on tone) about how Twilight isn\\\'t fond of her to Twilight trying to tell them that something\\\'s off about her. Twilight\\\'s never shown to take a step back and really talk to her friends about how much Cadence has changed, which would have helped a little to sway them to her side. Similarly, they know nothing about Shining Armor except for what Twilight has told them.

* \\\'\\\'\\\'Wedding Jitters:\\\'\\\'\\\' Or Nerves. Which happens in real life. Some people who are generally nice \\\'\\\'do\\\'\\\' become stressed-out tyrants when trying when getting their wedding day ready. It doesn\\\'t totally excuse their behavior, but these types will \\\'\\\'usually\\\'\\\' apologize about it later. In reference to this two-parter, this is supposedly why the others aren\\\'t angry Cadence\\\'s behavior. That, or they didn\\\'t notice. Chrysalis\\\'s WoundedGazelleGambit at the wedding hall solidifies that this was basically the case.

* \\\'\\\'\\\'Twilight Is Not a Paragon:\\\'\\\'\\\' Similar to the above, them being best friends with Twilight doesn\\\'t mean much when said friend is acting pretty much unreasonably biased in their eyes. It doesn\\\'t help when Twilight has screwed things up on her own by jumping to conclusions before.
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Basically, all of this adds up to having \\\'\\\'\\\'reasonable\\\'\\\'\\\' doubt in Twilight\\\'s accusations, but as I said, the lack of evidence is the most glaring.

Now, I can\\\'t really think of too many reasons that shows the others are unjustified in their disbelief of Twilight\\\'s behavior, except one:

* \\\'\\\'\\\'They Know Twilight:\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes this is related to the last reason up there. Frankly, I\\\'m more surprised that they didn\\\'t even \\\'\\\'consider\\\'\\\' that \\\'\\\'maybe\\\'\\\' Twilight was on to something. If Twilight was being \\\'\\\'this\\\'\\\' adamant, something should have at least made them question why. I mean, they immediately rationalize Cadence\\\'s behavior, but assume Twilight\\\'s just acting out of personal emotions.

However, everything else happens reasonably, as far as the episode is concerned.

To summarize my purpose, \\\'\\\'\\\'I just need a consensus on whether or not we can keep the NiceJobBreakingItHero entry, as well as whether or not we need to [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment edit out obvious bias]] for \\\'\\\'or\\\'\\\' against the other characters\\\' behavior towards Twilight.\\\'\\\'\\\'

The ponies not believing Twilight didn\\\'t do anything as far as making things worse, since Chrysalis had caught on to Twilight already by that point. In fact, they ended up helping the villain [[NiceJobFixingItVillain fix everything]] by becoming arrogant enough to try to actually get rid of Twilight (who, being already aware that Twilight was suspicious of her, was more than likely going to do this anyway even if Twilight didn\\\'t cause everyone to leave her alone) and leading her to the real Cadence. \\\"Stopping an evil plot sooner than anticipated\\\" isn\\\'t what this trope means, and it\\\'s also not a hypothetical \\\"well if \\\'\\\'this\\\'\\\' didn\\\'t happen, then \\\'\\\'this\\\'\\\' could have happened\\\". The only way for the trope to apply was if Chrysalis\\\'s plan was going to fail \\\'\\\'then and there\\\'\\\' had everyone

The show itself also [[IdiotBall goes out of]] [[WhatAnIdiot its way]] to show why everyone else would have trouble believing Twilight, who\\\'s usually \\\'\\\'much\\\'\\\' better about this sort of thing. Now remember to assume that the other Manes A) don\\\'t know Cadence personally, \\\'\\\'but\\\'\\\' B) knows that Twilight is very protective of her brother. Also keep in mind that Twilight was trying to accuse Cadence of being \\\'\\\'evil\\\'\\\', rather than being a fraud, which is a more plausible accusation.

----
Starting with the biggest ones:

* \\\'\\\'\\\'No Evidence:\\\'\\\'\\\' The most damning is that Twilight lacked evidence, particularly since the episode before the two parter showed that she likes to have her facts straight before doing things like this. She basically just burst into the wedding hall and [[YouHaveToBelieveMe expected everyone to consider her accusations at face value]].

* \\\'\\\'\\\'She\\\'s EVIL:\\\'\\\'\\\' Trying to accuse someone of being evil is a high claim, and all Twilight had to go on was her own perceptions. Unfortunately, she had no way of knowing that Cadence was a fake, otherwise it might have been more believable to her audience (considering that Armor saying that the bridesmaids were cast off because they wanted to meet royalty as a bad thing), especially with the security heightened at the time.

* \\\'\\\'\\\'I Guess You Just Didn\\\'t Care:\\\'\\\'\\\' Armor had a reasonable rebuttal for everything Twilight was accusing Cadence of, \\\'\\\'even if a couple of answers were due to his mind being controlled\\\'\\\'. This combined with the above is what set everyone against her.
----

The rest of this is either mentioned straight out in the episode or heavily implied:

* \\\'\\\'\\\'B.B.B.F.F.:\\\'\\\'\\\'Twilight is \\\'\\\'immediately\\\'\\\' shown to be over-protective of her brother as soon as she finds out he\\\'s getting married. She shows obvious indignation at \\\"Princess Mi Amore Cadenza\\\" until she realizes who that is, even after Shining Armor managed to calm her down from her initial angry state upon reuniting with him. \\\'\\\'All\\\'\\\' of Twilight\\\'s friends noticed this and call her out on it when Twilight tries to get her friends to agree with her that Cadence became a huge jerk.
** At this point, Chrysalis seems to have caught on to Twilight being suspicious, and subsequently \\\"bought\\\" Twilight\\\'s friends out by making them the bridesmaids to keep their own suspicions from raising.

* \\\'\\\'\\\'Who\\\'s Cadence?:\\\'\\\'\\\' None of Twilight\\\'s friends know who Cadence is personally, other than Armor, and there isn\\\'t a scene that actually shows Twilight telling them about how Cadence was in the past at all (there was a short bit of dialogue when Twilight was with Rarity and her dresses, but that seemed more like she was complaining about Cadence\\\'s behavior at Applejack\\\'s). They basically went from hearing (based on tone) about how Twilight isn\\\'t fond of her to Twilight trying to tell them that something\\\'s off about her. Twilight\\\'s never shown to take a step back and really talk to her friends about how much Cadence has changed, which would have helped a little to sway them to her side. Similarly, they know nothing about Shining Armor except for what Twilight has told them.

* \\\'\\\'\\\'Wedding Jitters:\\\'\\\'\\\' Or Nerves. Which happens in real life. Some people who are generally nice \\\'\\\'do\\\'\\\' become stressed-out tyrants when trying when getting their wedding day ready. It doesn\\\'t totally excuse their behavior, but these types will \\\'\\\'usually\\\'\\\' apologize about it later. In reference to this two-parter, this is supposedly why the others aren\\\'t angry Cadence\\\'s behavior. That, or they didn\\\'t notice. Chrysalis\\\'s WoundedGazelleGambit at the wedding hall solidifies that this was basically the case.

* \\\'\\\'\\\'Twilight Is Not a Paragon:\\\'\\\'\\\' Similar to the above, them being best friends with Twilight doesn\\\'t mean much when said friend is acting pretty much unreasonably biased in their eyes. It doesn\\\'t help when Twilight has screwed things up on her own by jumping to conclusions before.
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Basically, all of this adds up to having \\\'\\\'\\\'reasonable\\\'\\\'\\\' doubt in Twilight\\\'s accusations, but as I said, the lack of evidence is the most glaring.

Now, I can\\\'t really think of too many reasons that shows the others are unjustified in their disbelief of Twilight\\\'s behavior, except one:

* \\\'\\\'\\\'They Know Twilight:\\\'\\\'\\\' Yes this is related to the last reason up there. Frankly, I\\\'m more surprised that they didn\\\'t even \\\'\\\'consider\\\'\\\' that \\\'\\\'maybe\\\'\\\' Twilight was on to something. If Twilight was being \\\'\\\'this\\\'\\\' adamant, something should have at least made them question why. I mean, they immediately rationalize Cadence\\\'s behavior, but assume Twilight\\\'s just acting out of personal emotions.

However, everything else happens reasonably, as far as the episode is concerned.

To summarize my purpose, \\\'\\\'\\\'I just need a consensus on whether or not we can keep the NiceJobBreakingItHero entry, as well as whether or not we need to [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment edit out obvious bias]] for \\\'\\\'or\\\'\\\' against the other characters\\\' behavior towards Twilight.\\\'\\\'\\\'

This is a long post, but I suggest reading everything. Basically, I don\\\'t think NiceJobBreakingItHero needs to be on the page, because it reads like an {{Audience Reaction|s}} trying call the other characters out for not believing Twilight (which is unnecessary since the show [[WhatTheHellHero does it already]]), while at the same time [[SquarePegRoundTrope not really being an example of the trope itself]].