[003]
NoriMori
Current Version
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
This is about how books in the Chronicles of Narnia should be ordered. According to Wikipedia there is dispute as to whether they should be ordered chronologically, or by date of publication. Is there any specific policy on TVTropes about this? I was about to correct \'\'The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe\'\', which is given in the main article as the first book, to \
to:
I had something here, but I realized it would be more appropriate to put it on a different page (what I wrote was about a series given for an example, and had nothing to do with this article\\\'s trope). But I don\\\'t see a delete button and this thing won\\\'t let me save a blank topic, so I\\\'m just saying that I deleted it. (Why doesn\\\'t the discussion page work the same as an article page so that you can just delete a topic? Argh!)
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
This is about how books in the Chronicles of Narnia should be ordered. According to Wikipedia there is dispute as to whether they should be ordered chronologically, or by date of publication. Is there any specific policy on TVTropes about this? I was about to correct \'\'The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe\'\', which is given in the main article as the first book, to \
to:
This is about how books in the Chronicles of Narnia should be ordered. According to Wikipedia there is dispute as to whether they should be ordered chronologically, or by date of publication. Is there any specific policy on TVTropes about this? I was about to correct \\\'\\\'The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe\\\'\\\', which is given in the main article as the first book, to \\\"the second book\\\", because I always assumed it was, since I started with \\\'\\\'The Magician\\\'s Nephew\\\'\\\' and could see that it took place first. But before clicking \\\"save\\\", I checked out Wikipedia and saw that \\\'\\\'The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe\\\'\\\' was published first, so the article technically isn\\\'t incorrect.
Wikipedia gives the two ways the series can be ordered:
Publication order:
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe<br/>
Prince Caspian<br/>
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader<br/>
The Silver Chair<br/>
The Horse and His Boy<br/>
The Magician\\\'s Nephew<br/>
The Last Battle
Chronological order:
The Magician\\\'s Nephew<br/>
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe<br/>
The Horse and His Boy<br/>
Prince Caspian<br/>
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader<br/>
The Silver Chair<br/>
The Last Battle
The article also gives a justification for using chronological order:
\\\"The books were not numbered until the first American publisher, Macmillan, enumerated them according to their original publication order. When Harper Collins took over the series rights in 1994, this numbering was revised to use internal chronological order at the suggestion of Lewis\\\' stepson, Douglas Gresham. To make the case for his suggested order, Gresham quoted Lewis\\\' 1957 reply to a letter from an American fan who was having an argument with his mother about the order:
<quote>
I think I agree with your chronological order for reading the books more than with your mother\\\'s. The series was not planned beforehand as she thinks. When I wrote \\\'\\\'The Lion\\\'\\\' I did not know I was going to write any more. Then I wrote \\\'\\\'P. Caspian\\\'\\\' as a sequel and still didn\\\'t think there would be any more, and when I had done \\\'\\\'The Voyage\\\'\\\' I felt quite sure it would be the last, but I found I was wrong. So perhaps it does not matter very much in which order anyone read them. I’m not even sure that all the others were written in the same order in which they were published.
</quote>\\\"
Later in the same section on Wikipedia, it gives justifications for using publication order, such as this:
\\\"Scholars and readers who appreciate the original order believe that Lewis was simply being gracious to his youthful correspondent and that he could have changed the books\\\' order in his lifetime had he so desired. They maintain that much of the magic of Narnia comes from the way the world is gradually presented in \\\'\\\'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe\\\'\\\'. These academics believe that the mysterious wardrobe, as a narrative device, is a much better introduction to Narnia than \\\'\\\'The Magician\\\'s Nephew\\\'\\\' — where the word \\\'Narnia\\\' appears in the first paragraph as something already familiar to the reader. Moreover, they say, it is clear from the texts themselves that \\\'\\\'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe\\\'\\\' was intended to be read first. When Aslan is first mentioned in \\\'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe\\\', for example, the narrator says that \\\'None of the children knew who Aslan was, any more than you do\\\' — which is nonsensical if one has already read \\\'\\\'The Magician\\\'s Nephew\\\'\\\'.\\\"
However, in defense of the chronological order, I think the fact that \\\'\\\'The Lion\\\'\\\' reads like it was meant to be read first merely reflects the aforementioned fact that Lewis wrote it first and didn\\\'t know he was going to write more in the same series. But there are more valid justifications for publication order:
\\\"Doris Meyer, author of \\\'\\\'C.S. Lewis in Context\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'Bareface: A guide to C.S. Lewis\\\'\\\' points out that rearranging the stories chronologically \\\'lessens the impact of the individual stories\\\' and \\\'obscures the literary structures as a whole\\\'.\\\"
I can\\\'t vouch for that, since I didn\\\'t read them in publication order. Which begs the question, how does Doris Meyer know that reading them in chronological order \\\"lessens the impact\\\" of the stories? Any person reading them in both orders wouldn\\\'t be able to tell us objectively which had a greater impact, unless we wiped their memories in between. Did Doris Meyer do a study? I doubt it. But her assertion could still be a valid justification if it\\\'s true. And then there\\\'s the fact that Lewis \\\"could have changed the books\\\' order in his lifetime had he so desired\\\", which is a good point (if he felt they should be read chronologically, why didn\\\'t he tell his publishers to renumber them?).
I personally am partial to the chronological ordering, since that\\\'s how I\\\'ve been reading the series so far, but for TVTropes articles I think we should pick one order and use it consistently. But both orderings have valid justifications, so it\\\'s basically up to us Tropers to figure out which is best. How should we go about this?
Wikipedia gives the two ways the series can be ordered:
Publication order:
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe<br/>
Prince Caspian<br/>
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader<br/>
The Silver Chair<br/>
The Horse and His Boy<br/>
The Magician\\\'s Nephew<br/>
The Last Battle
Chronological order:
The Magician\\\'s Nephew<br/>
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe<br/>
The Horse and His Boy<br/>
Prince Caspian<br/>
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader<br/>
The Silver Chair<br/>
The Last Battle
The article also gives a justification for using chronological order:
\\\"The books were not numbered until the first American publisher, Macmillan, enumerated them according to their original publication order. When Harper Collins took over the series rights in 1994, this numbering was revised to use internal chronological order at the suggestion of Lewis\\\' stepson, Douglas Gresham. To make the case for his suggested order, Gresham quoted Lewis\\\' 1957 reply to a letter from an American fan who was having an argument with his mother about the order:
<quote>
I think I agree with your chronological order for reading the books more than with your mother\\\'s. The series was not planned beforehand as she thinks. When I wrote \\\'\\\'The Lion\\\'\\\' I did not know I was going to write any more. Then I wrote \\\'\\\'P. Caspian\\\'\\\' as a sequel and still didn\\\'t think there would be any more, and when I had done \\\'\\\'The Voyage\\\'\\\' I felt quite sure it would be the last, but I found I was wrong. So perhaps it does not matter very much in which order anyone read them. I’m not even sure that all the others were written in the same order in which they were published.
</quote>\\\"
Later in the same section on Wikipedia, it gives justifications for using publication order, such as this:
\\\"Scholars and readers who appreciate the original order believe that Lewis was simply being gracious to his youthful correspondent and that he could have changed the books\\\' order in his lifetime had he so desired. They maintain that much of the magic of Narnia comes from the way the world is gradually presented in \\\'\\\'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe\\\'\\\'. These academics believe that the mysterious wardrobe, as a narrative device, is a much better introduction to Narnia than \\\'\\\'The Magician\\\'s Nephew\\\'\\\' — where the word \\\'Narnia\\\' appears in the first paragraph as something already familiar to the reader. Moreover, they say, it is clear from the texts themselves that \\\'\\\'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe\\\'\\\' was intended to be read first. When Aslan is first mentioned in \\\'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe\\\', for example, the narrator says that \\\'None of the children knew who Aslan was, any more than you do\\\' — which is nonsensical if one has already read \\\'\\\'The Magician\\\'s Nephew\\\'\\\'.\\\"
However, in defense of the chronological order, I think the fact that \\\'\\\'The Lion\\\'\\\' reads like it was meant to be read first merely reflects the aforementioned fact that Lewis wrote it first and didn\\\'t know he was going to write more in the same series. But there are more valid justifications for publication order:
\\\"Doris Meyer, author of \\\'\\\'C.S. Lewis in Context\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'Bareface: A guide to C.S. Lewis\\\'\\\' points out that rearranging the stories chronologically \\\'lessens the impact of the individual stories\\\' and \\\'obscures the literary structures as a whole\\\'.\\\"
I can\\\'t vouch for that, since I didn\\\'t read them in publication order. Which begs the question, how does Doris Meyer know that reading them in chronological order \\\"lessens the impact\\\" of the stories? Any person reading them in both orders wouldn\\\'t be able to tell us objectively which had a greater impact, unless we wiped their memories in between. Did Doris Meyer do a study? I doubt it. But her assertion could still be a valid justification if it\\\'s true. And then there\\\'s the fact that Lewis \\\"could have changed the books\\\' order in his lifetime had he so desired\\\", which is a good point (if he felt they should be read chronologically, why didn\\\'t he tell his publishers to renumber them?).
I personally am partial to the chronological ordering, since that\\\'s how I\\\'ve been reading the series so far, but for TVTropes articles I think we should pick one order and use it consistently. But both orderings have valid justifications, so it\\\'s basically up to us Tropers to figure out which is best. How should we go about this?
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
This is about how books in the Chronicles of Narnia should be ordered. According to Wikipedia there is dispute as to whether they should be ordered chronologically, or by date of publication. Is there any specific policy on TVTropes about this? I was about to correct \'\'The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe\'\', which is given in the main article as the first book, to \
to:
This is about how books in the Chronicles of Narnia should be ordered. According to Wikipedia there is dispute as to whether they should be ordered chronologically, or by date of publication. Is there any specific policy on TVTropes about this? I was about to correct \\\'\\\'The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe\\\'\\\', which is given in the main article as the first book, to \\\"the second book\\\", because I always assumed it was, since I started with \\\'\\\'The Magician\\\'s Nephew\\\'\\\' and could see that it took place first. But before clicking \\\"save\\\", I checked out Wikipedia and saw that \\\'\\\'The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe\\\'\\\' was published first, so the article technically isn\\\'t incorrect.
Wikipedia gives the two ways the series can be ordered:
Publication order:
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
Prince Caspian
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
The Silver Chair
The Horse and His Boy
The Magician\\\'s Nephew
The Last Battle
Chronological order:
The Magician\\\'s Nephew
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
The Horse and His Boy
Prince Caspian
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
The Silver Chair
The Last Battle
The article also gives a justification for using chronological order:
\\\"The books were not numbered until the first American publisher, Macmillan, enumerated them according to their original publication order. When Harper Collins took over the series rights in 1994, this numbering was revised to use internal chronological order at the suggestion of Lewis\\\' stepson, Douglas Gresham. To make the case for his suggested order, Gresham quoted Lewis\\\' 1957 reply to a letter from an American fan who was having an argument with his mother about the order:
<blockquote>
I think I agree with your chronological order for reading the books more than with your mother\\\'s. The series was not planned beforehand as she thinks. When I wrote \\\'\\\'The Lion\\\'\\\' I did not know I was going to write any more. Then I wrote \\\'\\\'P. Caspian\\\'\\\' as a sequel and still didn\\\'t think there would be any more, and when I had done \\\'\\\'The Voyage\\\'\\\' I felt quite sure it would be the last, but I found I was wrong. So perhaps it does not matter very much in which order anyone read them. I’m not even sure that all the others were written in the same order in which they were published.
</blockquote>\\\"
Later in the same section on Wikipedia, it gives justifications for using publication order, such as this:
\\\"Scholars and readers who appreciate the original order believe that Lewis was simply being gracious to his youthful correspondent and that he could have changed the books\\\' order in his lifetime had he so desired. They maintain that much of the magic of Narnia comes from the way the world is gradually presented in \\\'\\\'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe\\\'\\\'. These academics believe that the mysterious wardrobe, as a narrative device, is a much better introduction to Narnia than \\\'\\\'The Magician\\\'s Nephew\\\'\\\' — where the word \\\'Narnia\\\' appears in the first paragraph as something already familiar to the reader. Moreover, they say, it is clear from the texts themselves that \\\'\\\'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe\\\'\\\' was intended to be read first. When Aslan is first mentioned in \\\'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe\\\', for example, the narrator says that \\\'None of the children knew who Aslan was, any more than you do\\\' — which is nonsensical if one has already read \\\'\\\'The Magician\\\'s Nephew\\\'\\\'.\\\"
However, in defense of the chronological order, I think the fact that \\\'\\\'The Lion\\\'\\\' reads like it was meant to be read first merely reflects the aforementioned fact that Lewis wrote it first and didn\\\'t know he was going to write more in the same series. But there are more valid justifications for publication order:
\\\"Doris Meyer, author of \\\'\\\'C.S. Lewis in Context\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'Bareface: A guide to C.S. Lewis\\\'\\\' points out that rearranging the stories chronologically \\\'lessens the impact of the individual stories\\\' and \\\'obscures the literary structures as a whole\\\'.\\\"
I can\\\'t vouch for that, since I didn\\\'t read them in publication order. Which begs the question, how does Doris Meyer know that reading them in chronological order \\\"lessens the impact\\\" of the stories? Any person reading them in both orders wouldn\\\'t be able to tell us objectively which had a greater impact, unless we wiped their memories in between. Did Doris Meyer do a study? I doubt it. But her assertion could still be a valid justification if it\\\'s true. And then there\\\'s the fact that Lewis \\\"could have changed the books\\\' order in his lifetime had he so desired\\\", which is a good point (if he felt they should be read chronologically, why didn\\\'t he tell his publishers to renumber them?).
I personally am partial to the chronological ordering, since that\\\'s how I\\\'ve been reading the series so far, but for TVTropes articles I think we should pick one order and use it consistently. But both orderings have valid justifications, so it\\\'s basically up to us Tropers to figure out which is best. How should we go about this?
Wikipedia gives the two ways the series can be ordered:
Publication order:
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
Prince Caspian
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
The Silver Chair
The Horse and His Boy
The Magician\\\'s Nephew
The Last Battle
Chronological order:
The Magician\\\'s Nephew
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
The Horse and His Boy
Prince Caspian
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
The Silver Chair
The Last Battle
The article also gives a justification for using chronological order:
\\\"The books were not numbered until the first American publisher, Macmillan, enumerated them according to their original publication order. When Harper Collins took over the series rights in 1994, this numbering was revised to use internal chronological order at the suggestion of Lewis\\\' stepson, Douglas Gresham. To make the case for his suggested order, Gresham quoted Lewis\\\' 1957 reply to a letter from an American fan who was having an argument with his mother about the order:
<blockquote>
I think I agree with your chronological order for reading the books more than with your mother\\\'s. The series was not planned beforehand as she thinks. When I wrote \\\'\\\'The Lion\\\'\\\' I did not know I was going to write any more. Then I wrote \\\'\\\'P. Caspian\\\'\\\' as a sequel and still didn\\\'t think there would be any more, and when I had done \\\'\\\'The Voyage\\\'\\\' I felt quite sure it would be the last, but I found I was wrong. So perhaps it does not matter very much in which order anyone read them. I’m not even sure that all the others were written in the same order in which they were published.
</blockquote>\\\"
Later in the same section on Wikipedia, it gives justifications for using publication order, such as this:
\\\"Scholars and readers who appreciate the original order believe that Lewis was simply being gracious to his youthful correspondent and that he could have changed the books\\\' order in his lifetime had he so desired. They maintain that much of the magic of Narnia comes from the way the world is gradually presented in \\\'\\\'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe\\\'\\\'. These academics believe that the mysterious wardrobe, as a narrative device, is a much better introduction to Narnia than \\\'\\\'The Magician\\\'s Nephew\\\'\\\' — where the word \\\'Narnia\\\' appears in the first paragraph as something already familiar to the reader. Moreover, they say, it is clear from the texts themselves that \\\'\\\'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe\\\'\\\' was intended to be read first. When Aslan is first mentioned in \\\'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe\\\', for example, the narrator says that \\\'None of the children knew who Aslan was, any more than you do\\\' — which is nonsensical if one has already read \\\'\\\'The Magician\\\'s Nephew\\\'\\\'.\\\"
However, in defense of the chronological order, I think the fact that \\\'\\\'The Lion\\\'\\\' reads like it was meant to be read first merely reflects the aforementioned fact that Lewis wrote it first and didn\\\'t know he was going to write more in the same series. But there are more valid justifications for publication order:
\\\"Doris Meyer, author of \\\'\\\'C.S. Lewis in Context\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'Bareface: A guide to C.S. Lewis\\\'\\\' points out that rearranging the stories chronologically \\\'lessens the impact of the individual stories\\\' and \\\'obscures the literary structures as a whole\\\'.\\\"
I can\\\'t vouch for that, since I didn\\\'t read them in publication order. Which begs the question, how does Doris Meyer know that reading them in chronological order \\\"lessens the impact\\\" of the stories? Any person reading them in both orders wouldn\\\'t be able to tell us objectively which had a greater impact, unless we wiped their memories in between. Did Doris Meyer do a study? I doubt it. But her assertion could still be a valid justification if it\\\'s true. And then there\\\'s the fact that Lewis \\\"could have changed the books\\\' order in his lifetime had he so desired\\\", which is a good point (if he felt they should be read chronologically, why didn\\\'t he tell his publishers to renumber them?).
I personally am partial to the chronological ordering, since that\\\'s how I\\\'ve been reading the series so far, but for TVTropes articles I think we should pick one order and use it consistently. But both orderings have valid justifications, so it\\\'s basically up to us Tropers to figure out which is best. How should we go about this?
