Discussion History Main / UpToEleven

More needless ConversationInTheMainPage, with Mister \\\"That\\\'s Debatable\\\" trying to naysay the example concerning Vita, but ultimately agreeing that the example is correct anyway.

-->* IsaacAsimov\\\'s short story \\\"The Dead Past\\\". There\\\'s a device that allows historians to view past events, and the government is keeping it under very tight control, supposedly for technical reasons. The protagonist thinks the government is lying, and sets out to make the device available to anyone. He succeeds, but later the government bureaucrat who was stalling him explains that the device can be set to view events a second ago just as easily a century ago. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Whoops!]] So much for privacy!
-->** YourMileageMayVary. The government \\\'\\\'explicitly\\\'\\\' used the device as SinisterSurveillance, meaning the only thing the protagonist destroyed was the \\\'\\\'illusion\\\'\\\' of privacy. And with the device open-sourced, all crimes will be absurdly easy to solve - including corruption in the government. [[TheSingularity The world might actually go sane!]]
-->*** Or not; see \\\'\\\'The Light of Other Days\\\'\\\' by ArthurCClarke and Stephen Baxter.
-->**** In \\\"Dead Past,\\\" part of the premise was that the past event viewer could \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' see more than a hundred or so years back. The Protagonist wanted to view Ancient History, which was something physically impossible. According to the story, the big problem with everybody getting the ability to view the past isn\\\'t just that privacy is destroyed, it\\\'s that people will waste their whole lives reliving the best moments of their past.
-->***** The protagonist was right in that the government \\\'\\\'was\\\'\\\' lying. They routinely published fake accounts of using the officially sanctioned time viewer to see ancient history in order to direct people\\\'s attention away from the implications of using it to see \\\'\\\'recent\\\'\\\' history. The protagonist kept applying for a chance to see ancient Carthage, and the government kept brushing him off.

A \\\'\\\'\\\'huge\\\'\\\'\\\' chunk of off-topic ConversationInTheMainPage started when one troper just couldn\\\'t resist publicly debating the \\\"Dead Past\\\" example. The example and all the natter seem stuck on whether or not it\\\'s moral to see into the past and who should get the privilege. That\\\'s not the point of this trope.

--> ** YourMileageMayVary. Unquestionably a better \\\'\\\'ruler\\\'\\\', but a kidnapper, traitor, and murderer, something that the legitimate king is not. I mean, think about it, the man employs [[CompleteMonster Rupert of Hentzau]], for heaven\\\'s sake.

WikiSchizophrenia in the first person. If the Duke really does not fit this trope, the nattermonger should\\\'ve just removed the example and explained why. I haven\\\'t read ThePrisonerOfZenda, so I\\\'ll leave that decision up to a troper who\\\'s read it--but I\\\'ve left the original example alone because, as far as I can understand of this trope, it\\\'s possible for a HeroAntagonist to work with, serve, or employ outright villains on their side.

--> *** In Zero 3, at least. Unless I\\\'m mistaken, in the first Zero game, Copy X seemed to be just like the guardians. It was in Zero 3 that he stopped giving a damn about even the humans, but consider the fact that Dr. Weil was the one who brought him back. He most likely reprogrammed Copy X. Before then, he was a [[WellIntentionedExtremist well intentioned extremist]].

This trope is about naming the people who are {{Hero Antagonist}}s. Compared to ThePrisonerOfZenda, I know more about MegaManZero, so I can say that this conversational edit (again in the first person) doesn\\\'t belong on this page. I also removed the bit about Copy X being the truly evil person in MegaManZero from the original example, to ward off further naysaying over Copy X.

In other places, I\\\'ve condensed some of the natter that actually has a point worth keeping.

More needless ConversationInTheMainPage, with Mister \\\"That\\\'s Debatable\\\" trying to naysay the example concerning Vita, but ultimately agreeing that the example is correct anyway.

-->* IsaacAsimov\\\'s short story \\\"The Dead Past\\\". There\\\'s a device that allows historians to view past events, and the government is keeping it under very tight control, supposedly for technical reasons. The protagonist thinks the government is lying, and sets out to make the device available to anyone. He succeeds, but later the government bureaucrat who was stalling him explains that the device can be set to view events a second ago just as easily a century ago. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Whoops!]] So much for privacy!
-->** YourMileageMayVary. The government \\\'\\\'explicitly\\\'\\\' used the device as SinisterSurveillance, meaning the only thing the protagonist destroyed was the \\\'\\\'illusion\\\'\\\' of privacy. And with the device open-sourced, all crimes will be absurdly easy to solve - including corruption in the government. [[TheSingularity The world might actually go sane!]]
-->*** Or not; see \\\'\\\'The Light of Other Days\\\'\\\' by ArthurCClarke and Stephen Baxter.
-->**** In \\\"Dead Past,\\\" part of the premise was that the past event viewer could \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' see more than a hundred or so years back. The Protagonist wanted to view Ancient History, which was something physically impossible. According to the story, the big problem with everybody getting the ability to view the past isn\\\'t just that privacy is destroyed, it\\\'s that people will waste their whole lives reliving the best moments of their past.
-->***** The protagonist was right in that the government \\\'\\\'was\\\'\\\' lying. They routinely published fake accounts of using the officially sanctioned time viewer to see ancient history in order to direct people\\\'s attention away from the implications of using it to see \\\'\\\'recent\\\'\\\' history. The protagonist kept applying for a chance to see ancient Carthage, and the government kept brushing him off.

A \\\'\\\'\\\'huge\\\'\\\'\\\' chunk of off-topic ConversationInTheMainPage started when one troper just couldn\\\'t resist publicly debating the \\\"Dead Past\\\" example. The example and all the natter seem stuck on whether or not it\\\'s moral to see into the past and who should get the privilege. That\\\'s not the point of this trope.

--> ** YourMileageMayVary. Unquestionably a better \\\'\\\'ruler\\\'\\\', but a kidnapper, traitor, and murderer, something that the legitimate king is not. I mean, think about it, the man employs [[CompleteMonster Rupert of Hentzau]], for heaven\\\'s sake.

WikiSchizophrenia in the [[ThisTroper first person]]. If the Duke really does not fit this trope, the nattermonger should\\\'ve just removed the example and explained why. I haven\\\'t read ThePrisonerOfZenda, so I\\\'ll leave that decision up to a troper who\\\'s read it--but I\\\'ve left the original example alone because, as far as I can understand of this trope, it\\\'s possible for a HeroAntagonist to work with, serve, or employ outright villains on their side.

--> *** In Zero 3, at least. Unless I\\\'m mistaken, in the first Zero game, Copy X seemed to be just like the guardians. It was in Zero 3 that he stopped giving a damn about even the humans, but consider the fact that Dr. Weil was the one who brought him back. He most likely reprogrammed Copy X. Before then, he was a [[WellIntentionedExtremist well intentioned extremist]].

This trope is about naming the people who are {{Hero Antagonist}}s. Compared to ThePrisonerOfZenda, I know more about MegaManZero, so I can say that this conversational edit (again in the first person) doesn\\\'t belong on this page. I also removed the bit about CopyX being the truly evil person in MegaManZero from the original example, to ward off further naysaying over Copy X.

In other places I\\\'ve condensed some of the natter that actually has a point worth keeping.

--> ** That last bit is debatable. The opening of A\\\'s begins with [[spoiler: Nanoha getting knocked into oblivion by Vita, and getting her linker core de-powered]]. But yes, their heroic goal is not arguable.
--> *** Well, Vita\\\'s always been the most...eager one of the four.

More needless ConversationInTheMainPage, with Mister \\\"That\\\'s Debatable\\\" trying to naysay the example concerning Vita, but ultimately agreeing that the example is correct anyway.

-->* IsaacAsimov\\\'s short story \\\"The Dead Past\\\". There\\\'s a device that allows historians to view past events, and the government is keeping it under very tight control, supposedly for technical reasons. The protagonist thinks the government is lying, and sets out to make the device available to anyone. He succeeds, but later the government bureaucrat who was stalling him explains that the device can be set to view events a second ago just as easily a century ago. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Whoops!]] So much for privacy!
-->** YourMileageMayVary. The government \\\'\\\'explicitly\\\'\\\' used the device as SinisterSurveillance, meaning the only thing the protagonist destroyed was the \\\'\\\'illusion\\\'\\\' of privacy. And with the device open-sourced, all crimes will be absurdly easy to solve - including corruption in the government. [[TheSingularity The world might actually go sane!]]
-->*** Or not; see \\\'\\\'The Light of Other Days\\\'\\\' by ArthurCClarke and Stephen Baxter.
-->**** In \\\"Dead Past,\\\" part of the premise was that the past event viewer could \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' see more than a hundred or so years back. The Protagonist wanted to view Ancient History, which was something physically impossible. According to the story, the big problem with everybody getting the ability to view the past isn\\\'t just that privacy is destroyed, it\\\'s that people will waste their whole lives reliving the best moments of their past.
-->***** The protagonist was right in that the government \\\'\\\'was\\\'\\\' lying. They routinely published fake accounts of using the officially sanctioned time viewer to see ancient history in order to direct people\\\'s attention away from the implications of using it to see \\\'\\\'recent\\\'\\\' history. The protagonist kept applying for a chance to see ancient Carthage, and the government kept brushing him off.

A \\\'\\\'\\\'huge\\\'\\\'\\\' chunk of off-topic ConversationInTheMainPage started when one troper just couldn\\\'t resist publicly debating the \\\"Dead Past\\\" example. The example and all the natter seem stuck on whether or not it\\\'s moral to see into the past and who should get the privilege. That\\\'s not the point of this trope.

--> ** YourMileageMayVary. Unquestionably a better \\\'\\\'ruler\\\'\\\', but a kidnapper, traitor, and murderer, something that the legitimate king is not. I mean, think about it, the man employs [[CompleteMonster Rupert of Hentzau]], for heaven\\\'s sake.

WikiSchizophrenia in the [[ThisTroper first person]]. If the Duke really does not fit this trope, the nattermonger should\\\'ve just removed the example and explained why. I haven\\\'t read ThePrisonerOfZenda, so I\\\'ll leave that decision up to a troper who\\\'s read it--but I\\\'ve left the original example alone because, as far as I can understand of this trope, it\\\'s possible for a HeroAntagonist to work with, serve, or employ outright villains on their side.

In other places I\\\'ve condensed some of the natter that actually has a point worth keeping.