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9thOutworldsMan
Current Version
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This whole \"Makoto is the undisputed deuteragonist\" argument reeks of character exaggeration to me, similar to how shippers constantly exaggerate her \"closeness\" with Haru despite them hardly ever interacting at all in the actual game. If anything, it\'s Morgana who\'s the closest the game has to an actual deuteragonist, given how much story relevance he has from beginning to end, not to mention the fact that his character development slowly unravels concurrently to the overall narrative (and Joker\'s own, for that matter). Makoto only ever really plays a significant role in the Kaneshiro and Sae arcs... and even then, only in the first does she experience any meaningful development as a character. Sae\'s arc is strictly about her own story, with Makoto playing a supporting role due to their familial ties. Shido\'s arc was, by and large, a group effort with every Phantom Thief (even Haru) getting their own moment in the spotlight. Not to mention, the last stretch of the game is without a doubt Morgana-centric, with him being responsible for planning/suggesting the thieves\' final heist. People tend to equate Makoto as Joker\'s \"mouthpiece\" solely due to her role as Phantom Thief strategist. Franky, I think that\'s a very flawed analysis. For one, she doesn\'t speak for Joker, she speaks for the Thieves in general once they\'ve all come to an agreement; neither does she \"fill in\" for his thoughts in any way -- that would be (again) Morgana\'s role, who accompanies Joker throughout the game and essentially serves as his second voice in whatever decision he makes, be it major story developments or mundane activities. Makoto is basically the Jade Curtiss (Tales of the Abyss) and Ignis Scientia (FFXV) of P5: she\'s the group planner and is therefore involved in a lot of lecturing and instruction work. That doesn\'t automatically qualify her as \"deuteragonist\" material.
[=SergeantDoctor=] from the Reddit subforums also had this to say:
\"Makoto gets a lot of lines, but in terms of moving the plot forward or doing things that affect the plot, I don\'t think she\'s overly important. I think in terms of sheer utility and plot effectiveness Futaba steals the spotlight because she either just searches or hacks her way into anything the team needs...not to mention Futaba just seems to show up more since she lives with Sojiro.
As it\'s been said, Makoto is the team\'s straight man, so her lines are largely relegated to stating the obvious in a plain way that everyone else can get behind. I think because she summarizes and gets the last word at a lot of the meetings, it seems like she\'s making a lot of the decisions and being very important, but it\'s really because she\'s just there in that organizational, summary-giving role.\"
[=SergeantDoctor=] from the Reddit subforums also had this to say:
\"Makoto gets a lot of lines, but in terms of moving the plot forward or doing things that affect the plot, I don\'t think she\'s overly important. I think in terms of sheer utility and plot effectiveness Futaba steals the spotlight because she either just searches or hacks her way into anything the team needs...not to mention Futaba just seems to show up more since she lives with Sojiro.
As it\'s been said, Makoto is the team\'s straight man, so her lines are largely relegated to stating the obvious in a plain way that everyone else can get behind. I think because she summarizes and gets the last word at a lot of the meetings, it seems like she\'s making a lot of the decisions and being very important, but it\'s really because she\'s just there in that organizational, summary-giving role.\"
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This whole
to:
This whole \"Makoto is the undisputed deuteragonist\" argument reeks of character exaggeration to me, similar to how shippers constantly exaggerate her \"closeness\" with Haru despite them hardly ever interacting at all in the actual game. If anything, it\'s Morgana who\'s the closest the game has to an actual deuteragonist, given how much story relevance he has from beginning to end, not to mention the fact that his character development slowly unravels concurrently to the overall narrative (and Joker\'s own, for that matter). Makoto only ever really plays a significant role in the Kaneshiro and Sae arcs... and even then, only in the first does she experience any meaningful development as a character. Sae\'s arc is strictly about her own story, with Makoto playing a supporting role due to their familial ties. Shido\'s arc was, by and large, a group effort with every Phantom Thief (even Haru) getting their own moment in the spotlight. Not to mention, the last stretch of the game is without a doubt Morgana-centric, with him being responsible for planning/suggesting the thieves\' final heist. People tend to equate Makoto as Joker\'s \"mouthpiece\" solely due to her role as Phantom Thief strategist. Franky, I think that\'s a very flawed analysis. For one, she doesn\'t speak for Joker, she speaks for the Thieves in general once they\'ve all come to an agreement; neither does she \"fill in\" for his thoughts in any way -- that would be (again) Morgana\'s role, who accompanies Joker throughout the game and essentially serves as his second voice in whatever decision he makes, be it major story developments or mundane activities. Makoto is basically the Jade Curtiss (Tales of the Abyss) and Ignis Scientia (FFXV) of P5: she\'s the group planner and is therefore involved in a lot of talking and leadership work. That doesn\'t automatically qualify her as \"deuteragonist\" material.
[=SergeantDoctor=] from the Reddit subforums also had this to say:
\"Makoto gets a lot of lines, but in terms of moving the plot forward or doing things that affect the plot, I don\'t think she\'s overly important. I think in terms of sheer utility and plot effectiveness Futaba steals the spotlight because she either just searches or hacks her way into anything the team needs...not to mention Futaba just seems to show up more since she lives with Sojiro.
As it\'s been said, Makoto is the team\'s straight man, so her lines are largely relegated to stating the obvious in a plain way that everyone else can get behind. I think because she summarizes and gets the last word at a lot of the meetings, it seems like she\'s making a lot of the decisions and being very important, but it\'s really because she\'s just there in that organizational, summary-giving role.\"
[=SergeantDoctor=] from the Reddit subforums also had this to say:
\"Makoto gets a lot of lines, but in terms of moving the plot forward or doing things that affect the plot, I don\'t think she\'s overly important. I think in terms of sheer utility and plot effectiveness Futaba steals the spotlight because she either just searches or hacks her way into anything the team needs...not to mention Futaba just seems to show up more since she lives with Sojiro.
As it\'s been said, Makoto is the team\'s straight man, so her lines are largely relegated to stating the obvious in a plain way that everyone else can get behind. I think because she summarizes and gets the last word at a lot of the meetings, it seems like she\'s making a lot of the decisions and being very important, but it\'s really because she\'s just there in that organizational, summary-giving role.\"
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
This whole
to:
This whole \"Makoto is the undisputed deuteragonist\" reeks of character exaggeration to me, similar to how shippers constantly exaggerate her \"closeness\" with Haru despite them hardly ever interacting at all in the actual game. If anything, it\'s Morgana who\'s the closest the game has to an actual deuteragonist, given how much story relevance he has from beginning to end, not to mention the fact that his character development slowly unravels concurrently to the overall narrative (and Joker\'s own, for that matter). Makoto only ever really plays a significant role in the Kaneshiro and Sae arcs... and even then, only in the first does she experience any meaningful development as a character. Sae\'s arc is strictly about her story, and Makoto playing a supporting role due to their familial ties. Shido\'s arc was, by and large, a group effort with every Phantom Thief (even Haru) having their own moment in the spotlight. Not to mention, the last stretch of the game is without a doubt Morgana-centric, with him being responsible for planning/suggesting the thieves\' final heist. People tend to equate Makoto as Joker\'s \"mouthpiece\" solely due to her role as Phantom Thief strategist. Franky, I think that\'s a very flawed analysis. For one, she doesn\'t speak for Joker, she speaks for the Thieves in general once they\'ve all come to an agreement; neither does she \"fill in\" for his thoughts in any way -- that would be (again) Morgana\'s role, who accompanies Joker throughout the game and essentially serves as his second voice in whatever decision he makes, be it major story developments or mundane activities. Makoto is basically the Jade Curtiss (Tales of the Abyss) and Ignis Scientia (FFXV) of P5: she\'s the group planner and is therefore involved in a lot of talking and leadership work. That doesn\'t automatically qualify her as \"deuteragonist\" material.
[=SergeantDoctor=] from the Reddit subforums also had this to say:
\"Makoto gets a lot of lines, but in terms of moving the plot forward or doing things that affect the plot, I don\'t think she\'s overly important. I think in terms of sheer utility and plot effectiveness Futaba steals the spotlight because she either just searches or hacks her way into anything the team needs...not to mention Futaba just seems to show up more since she lives with Sojiro.
As it\'s been said, Makoto is the team\'s straight man, so her lines are largely relegated to stating the obvious in a plain way that everyone else can get behind. I think because she summarizes and gets the last word at a lot of the meetings, it seems like she\'s making a lot of the decisions and being very important, but it\'s really because she\'s just there in that organizational, summary-giving role.\"
[=SergeantDoctor=] from the Reddit subforums also had this to say:
\"Makoto gets a lot of lines, but in terms of moving the plot forward or doing things that affect the plot, I don\'t think she\'s overly important. I think in terms of sheer utility and plot effectiveness Futaba steals the spotlight because she either just searches or hacks her way into anything the team needs...not to mention Futaba just seems to show up more since she lives with Sojiro.
As it\'s been said, Makoto is the team\'s straight man, so her lines are largely relegated to stating the obvious in a plain way that everyone else can get behind. I think because she summarizes and gets the last word at a lot of the meetings, it seems like she\'s making a lot of the decisions and being very important, but it\'s really because she\'s just there in that organizational, summary-giving role.\"
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
This whole
to:
This whole \"Makoto is the undisputed deuteragonist\" reeks of character exaggeration to me, similar to how shippers constantly exaggerate her \"closeness\" with Haru despite them hardly ever interacting at all in the actual game. If anything, it\'s Morgana who\'s the closest the game has to an actual deuteragonist, given how much story relevance he has from beginning to end, not to mention the fact that his character development slowly unravels concurrently to the overall narrative (and Joker\'s own, for that matter). Makoto only ever really plays a significant role in the Kaneshiro and Sae arcs... and even then, only in the first does she experience any meaningful development as a character. Sae\'s arc is strictly about her story, and Makoto playing a supporting role due to their familial ties. Shido\'s arc was, by and large, a group effort with every Phantom Thief (sans Haru) having their own moment in the spotlight. People tend to equate Makoto as Joker\'s \"mouthpiece\" solely due to her role as Phantom Thief strategist. Franky, I think that\'s a very flawed analysis. For one, she doesn\'t speak for Joker, she speaks for the Thieves in general once they\'ve all come to an agreement; neither does she \"fill in\" for his thoughts in any way -- that would be (again) Morgana\'s role, who accompanies Joker throughout the game and essentially serves as his second voice in whatever decision he makes, be it major story developments or mundane activities. Makoto is basically the Jade Curtiss (Tales of the Abyss) and Ignis Scientia (FFXV) of P5: she\'s the group planner and is therefore involved in a lot of talking and leadership work. That doesn\'t automatically qualify her as \"deuteragonist\" material.
[=SergeantDoctor=] from the Reddit subforums also had this to say:
\"Makoto gets a lot of lines, but in terms of moving the plot forward or doing things that affect the plot, I don\'t think she\'s overly important. I think in terms of sheer utility and plot effectiveness Futaba steals the spotlight because she either just searches or hacks her way into anything the team needs...not to mention Futaba just seems to show up more since she lives with Sojiro.
As it\'s been said, Makoto is the team\'s straight man, so her lines are largely relegated to stating the obvious in a plain way that everyone else can get behind. I think because she summarizes and gets the last word at a lot of the meetings, it seems like she\'s making a lot of the decisions and being very important, but it\'s really because she\'s just there in that organizational, summary-giving role.\"
[=SergeantDoctor=] from the Reddit subforums also had this to say:
\"Makoto gets a lot of lines, but in terms of moving the plot forward or doing things that affect the plot, I don\'t think she\'s overly important. I think in terms of sheer utility and plot effectiveness Futaba steals the spotlight because she either just searches or hacks her way into anything the team needs...not to mention Futaba just seems to show up more since she lives with Sojiro.
As it\'s been said, Makoto is the team\'s straight man, so her lines are largely relegated to stating the obvious in a plain way that everyone else can get behind. I think because she summarizes and gets the last word at a lot of the meetings, it seems like she\'s making a lot of the decisions and being very important, but it\'s really because she\'s just there in that organizational, summary-giving role.\"
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
This whole
to:
This whole \"Makoto is the undisputed deuteragonist\" reeks of character exaggeration to me, similar to how shippers constantly exaggerate her \"closeness\" with Haru despite them hardly ever interacting at all in the actual game. If anything, it\'s Morgana who\'s the closest the game has to an actual deuteragonist, given how much story relevance he has from beginning to end, not to mention the fact that his character development slowly unravels concurrently to the overall narrative (and Joker\'s own, for that matter). Makoto only ever really plays a significant role in the Kaneshiro and Sae arcs... and even then, only in the first does she experience any meaningful development as a character. Sae\'s arc is strictly about her story, and Makoto playing a supporting role due to their familial ties. Shido\'s arc was, by and large, a group effort with every Phantom Thief having their own moment in the spotlight. People tend to equate Makoto as Joker\'s \"mouthpiece\" solely due to her role as Phantom Thief strategist. Franky, I think that\'s a very flawed analysis. For one, she doesn\'t speak for Joker, she speaks for the Thieves in general once they\'ve all come to an agreement; neither does she \"fill in\" for his thoughts in any way -- that would be (again) Morgana\'s role, who accompanies Joker throughout the game and essentially serves as his second voice in whatever decision he makes, be it major story developments or mundane activities. Makoto is basically the Jade Curtiss (Tales of the Abyss) and Ignis Scientia (FFXV) of P5: she\'s the group planner and is therefore involved in a lot of talking and leadership work. That doesn\'t automatically qualify her as \"deuteragonist\" material.
[=SergeantDoctor=] from the Reddit subforums also had this to say:
\"Makoto gets a lot of lines, but in terms of moving the plot forward or doing things that affect the plot, I don\'t think she\'s overly important. I think in terms of sheer utility and plot effectiveness Futaba steals the spotlight because she either just searches or hacks her way into anything the team needs...not to mention Futaba just seems to show up more since she lives with Sojiro.
As it\'s been said, Makoto is the team\'s straight man, so her lines are largely relegated to stating the obvious in a plain way that everyone else can get behind. I think because she summarizes and gets the last word at a lot of the meetings, it seems like she\'s making a lot of the decisions and being very important, but it\'s really because she\'s just there in that organizational, summary-giving role.\"
[=SergeantDoctor=] from the Reddit subforums also had this to say:
\"Makoto gets a lot of lines, but in terms of moving the plot forward or doing things that affect the plot, I don\'t think she\'s overly important. I think in terms of sheer utility and plot effectiveness Futaba steals the spotlight because she either just searches or hacks her way into anything the team needs...not to mention Futaba just seems to show up more since she lives with Sojiro.
As it\'s been said, Makoto is the team\'s straight man, so her lines are largely relegated to stating the obvious in a plain way that everyone else can get behind. I think because she summarizes and gets the last word at a lot of the meetings, it seems like she\'s making a lot of the decisions and being very important, but it\'s really because she\'s just there in that organizational, summary-giving role.\"
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
This whole
to:
This whole \"Makoto is the undisputed deuteragonist\" reeks of character exaggeration to me, similar to how shippers constantly exaggerate her \"closeness\" with Haru despite them hardly ever interacting at all in the actual game. If anything, it\'s Morgana who\'s the closest the game has to an actual deuteragonist, given how much story relevance he has from beginning to end, not to mention the fact that his character development slowly unravels concurrently to the overall narrative (and Joker\'s own, for that matter). Makoto only ever really plays a significant role in the Kaneshiro and Sae arcs... and even then, only in the first does she experience any meaningful development as a character. Sae\'s arc is strictly about her story, and Makoto playing a supporting role due to their familial ties. Shido\'s arc was, by and large, a group effort with every Phantom Thief having their own moment in the spotlight. People tend to equate Makoto as Joker\'s \"mouthpiece\" solely due to her role as Phantom Thief strategist. Franky, I think that\'s a very flawed analysis. For one, she doesn\'t speak for Joker, she speaks for the Thieves in general once they\'ve all come to an agreement; neither does she \"fill in\" for his thoughts in any way -- that would be (again) Morgana\'s role, who accompanies Joker throughout the game and essentially serves as his second voice in whatever decision he makes, be it major story developments or mundane activities. Makoto is basically the Jade Curtiss (Tales of the Abyss) and Ignis Scientia (FFXV) of P5: she\'s the group planner and is therefore involved in a lot of talking and leadership work. That doesn\'t automatically qualify her as \"deuteragonist\" material.
SergeantDoctor from the Reddit subforums also had this today:
\"Makoto gets a lot of lines, but in terms of moving the plot forward or doing things that affect the plot, I don\'t think she\'s overly important. I think in terms of sheer utility and plot effectiveness Futaba steals the spotlight because she either just searches or hacks her way into anything the team needs...not to mention Futaba just seems to show up more since she lives with Sojiro.
As it\'s been said, Makoto is the team\'s straight man, so her lines are largely relegated to stating the obvious in a plain way that everyone else can get behind. I think because she summarizes and gets the last word at a lot of the meetings, it seems like she\'s making a lot of the decisions and being very important, but it\'s really because she\'s just there in that organizational, summary-giving role.\"
SergeantDoctor from the Reddit subforums also had this today:
\"Makoto gets a lot of lines, but in terms of moving the plot forward or doing things that affect the plot, I don\'t think she\'s overly important. I think in terms of sheer utility and plot effectiveness Futaba steals the spotlight because she either just searches or hacks her way into anything the team needs...not to mention Futaba just seems to show up more since she lives with Sojiro.
As it\'s been said, Makoto is the team\'s straight man, so her lines are largely relegated to stating the obvious in a plain way that everyone else can get behind. I think because she summarizes and gets the last word at a lot of the meetings, it seems like she\'s making a lot of the decisions and being very important, but it\'s really because she\'s just there in that organizational, summary-giving role.\"
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
This whole
to:
This whole \"Makoto is the undisputed deuteragonist\" reeks of character exaggeration to me, similar to how shippers constantly exaggerate her \"closeness\" with Haru despite them hardly ever interacting at all in the actual game. If anything, it\'s Morgana who\'s the closest the game has to an actual deuteragonist, given how much story relevance he has from beginning to end, not to mention the fact that his character development slowly unravels concurrently to the overall narrative (and Joker\'s own, for that matter). Makoto only ever really plays a significant role in the Kaneshiro and Sae arcs... and even then, only in the first does she experience any meaningful development as a character. Sae\'s arc is strictly about her story, and Makoto playing a supporting role due to their familial ties. Shido\'s arc was, by and large, a group effort with every Phantom Thief having their own moment in the spotlight. People tend to equate Makoto as Joker\'s \"mouthpiece\" solely due to her role as Phantom Thief strategist. Franky, I think that\'s a very flawed analysis. For one, she doesn\'t speak for Joker, she speaks for the Thieves in general once they\'ve all come to an agreement; neither does she \"fill in\" for his thoughts in any way -- that would be (again) Morgana\'s role, who accompanies Joker throughout the game and essentially serves as his second voice in whatever decision he makes, be it major story developments or mundane activities. Makoto is basically the Jade Curtiss (Tales of the Abyss) and Ignis Scientia (FFXV) of P5: she\'s the group planner and is therefore involved in a lot of talking and leadership work. That doesn\'t automatically qualify her as \"deuteragonist\" material.
