Shin Megami Tensei Series

Skill Bonus is a nice idea, but there's no way to tell how much Magnetite you've built up for each party member.

Edited by VeryMelon on Mar 8th 2019 at 6:58:04 AM

One 8th Day allows one to regain most party members. Except Keisuke.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

I remember wondering about that the first time I finished that Eighth Day. Didn't help that I got conflicting information on whether he was supposed to be recruitable on that Eighth Day or not, so I wasn't sure if I just screwed up and missed my chance.

It's on Naoya's 8th Day that you can get almost everyone on your team I think. Everyone except Keisuke, mayble Gin also doesn't join (I know that Mari and Black Frost won't join if Mari dies and you haven't gone through the event with Black Frost respectively)...

I do kind of feel like not having Keisuke join up was a little disappointing, mostly because I wanted to see what his reactions to the angels going into "KILL THE HERETICS" mode would be like and the sheer awkwardness of having to work with Kaido.

So it seems we've now entered the "do something/lose out on something else" period. I figured that had to be coming. Dunno how important taht all is but I've ben ignoring Atsuro because he's Atsuro. I chose to follow up and look at Kaido and Gin and this new guy instead. I forget his name but he seemed awfully fishy.

Beldr huh? So the leaders of Chaos have Lucifer, Mem Aleph and now this fella. I wonder what his heal will be.

Also the fight just now reminded me the suspicious guy's name is Honda.

Also even if the time of choice is clear and obvious in this game, do you get an idea of what everyone's motives are? What their character is all about? Or does that require repeat runs and seeing all the routes?

See, somebody was talking about Zelenin's double standards because she trusts the angels and hates demons. But even here, Amane summons a demon and the random people are like "it looks different! It looks like a goddess!" This was always something on my mind when I got into the series with SJ, too. The system and story might say they're all the same but if angels appeared, do you think they'd be regarded as no different than...I dunno, a more ferocious, beastly demon? Of course not. People look at the beings with white wings who have this nice calm music around them and they think savior from above, not identical creature to things with claws and fangs.

This is not. by the way, an argument for Law. I'm actually feeling very anti-Law at present. Just saying that Zelenin and most people would be all for angels and then also be all OH NO to demons, even if they are al technically demons.

Anyway, as for this game in particular, I'm wondering what the Shomonkai's game is. We already speculated in the game itself that they orchestrated all this to gather believers. And there are COMP's just lying around everywhere summoning demons and shit. Clear somebody is behind all ths but no idea who. The Shomonkai could just be opportunists.

Sheesh, Kaido is the biggest dork. Anybody who looks to this kid for lady tips is desperate. I did say Yuzu was my girlfriend though because she kinda is.

See. this is the problem with these vague dialogue options. I told Atsuro "let's end the lockdown" by which I meant beat the shit out of the goons holding us here. He took it as me saying let's kill all the demons. I guess, judging by those Yakuza fodder we couldn't even kill, our intrepid heroes still aren't cool with killing people. Killing sapient living creatures by the hundreds in the form of demons is A-Okay but do the same to the guys who we just figured out might try to kill us in a few days? That's a big no-no!

And that's Day 2 down. Finally a Compendium! I hear the original De Su didn't even have one. Game sounds like it was kinda shit to play.

I told Amane I had no interest in her freaky cult and also told Keisuke he can keep emailing me. I have no interest in him really but I don't ant to be rude. Honestly I'd like to see more of Midori. For one, she has the voice of Erin Fitzgerald who is amazing and I always love hearing her. And also i have a certain fondness for spastic girls. The first role I heard from Erin Fitzgerald was a pretty hyper girl, too.

In spite of what I just said, I love Haru a lot. She's not so energetic but she is...forceful. I like that, too. I made sure I used my time to talk to her. and hear about her sad past and relationship with Aya. I didn't get the chance to warn her about the bad liar guy who was looking for her, though. Was too busy making my move. No, literally, that's what the game had me do. It's not my fault.

And I wasn't joking Keisuke about taking on the SDF. Why does nobody see the most logical and easy way out? Rather than hunting down every demon in a city, bashing our way through a line of mooks is far simpler.

Beldr was a load of BS. I had no idea what I was supposed to do so I got two teams killed when I had them all near the exits to begin with but I was moving them around while I tried to figure out what tha game wanted me to do. Oh well.

I went after Kaido and Honda after Honda was on a radio and tried to lie and say it was a cell phone. The liars in this game really suck. Anyway, then Kaido went all DA POWAH and Pazuzu appeared. I then had the chance to see Honda again but I picked something else instead and ended up fighting rogue Shomonkai. Worth it though as I got Blitzkrieg, Fortify and something else. I really wanted Recarm but I figure it has to be around sometime again...hopefully soon.

Andall that and meeting with Gin made me miss out on Midori and a battle. Oh well. Gin is putting Haru in my hands and I vow to do my best to help her. Still curious what exactly happened to Aya, though.

So Honda is that guy from Aliens only more sympathetic, assuming he's telling the truth about his son.

What's the best Race Skill? Ever since I got my first Kishin I've been sure to not be without one because Double Up is so amazing. It certainly helped with Beldr. That fight was a huge pain. I really gotta watch out for enemies who can just attack you from several squares away. That was wrecking me.

Again with the vague options! Kaido sends me an email asking if I want to team up and I can say "this world is mine!" What does that even mean in this context? s it silly or serious? I just told him I'd consider it.

I actually just started playing but I figure I'll post this for now. I'm on Day 4. Having a lot of fun. Plenty of new intrigue with this King of Bel stuff. Kinda wonder how you can join a Law side since I literally have like a devil's power in me. Not the most tolerant of folks, Law people. Anyway, I guess this answers my earlier wonderings about how Beldr fits into the Chaos leadership situation. This is a very unique situation compared to other SMT games I've played.

The best race skills partly depend on your leader's and demon's kit, but overall a decent about of racial skills have great utility no matter what you're doing:

Tyrants and their Tyranny racial skill will be vital if you plan on fighting Lucifer in a New Game Plus, have the points to unlock it, and not take Yuzu's route. Kishins are awesome too since if you have one on your team you can initiate battle twice on your turn.

Edited by CybranGeneralSturm on Mar 9th 2019 at 5:16:42 AM

Guess I can give my opinion as well. I'll limit myself to the 5 racial skills I had the most use out of so Nik isn't completely spoiled on what they are yet.

• Affection: Restores a large amount of HP and cures all ailments to one team, range: 4.
• Flight: Move range +1, ignore obstacles.
• Animal Leg: Team can move a second time after attacking.
• Tyranny: Restores MP to team (dependent on damage dealt) at the end of skirmish + delays enemy turn after skirmish + reduces foe's initiative.
• Double Up: Team gets additional chance to attack.

I always make sure that each team has a way to restore MP, so that's at least one Tyrant, Fallen, or Divine demon in each team.

You fucking monster.

Context. Zelenin's reaction is understandable the first time you rescue her, but she continues to have that double standard throughout the game despite being more and more familiar with the situation. She's also a scientist, who are supposed to think rationally.

The mobs here are clueless civilians.

Edited by TrueShadow1 on Mar 9th 2019 at 7:09:15 AM

Understandably clueless

For most of them

to piggyback on "would you think people would treat demons as angels ?" well no, certainly. But when you meet the exact same angle, alongside a horde of demons, you may start getting the clue.

When your guardian angel then proceed to give you the exact same "angel" that tried to kill you twenty hours ago, I expect people, even very religious one, to get the point.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

I think Zelenin being a scientist is entirely the point. No matter what her profession or training, she's still human and humans are inherently irrational. We are driven by emotion far more than reason or logic. The stress of the situation and Zelenin's own innate personality negates any supposed rational thought. In the end, even genius scientists are no different from clueless civilians.

Also it bears pointing out the angels of SJ did nothing but constantly help and save us. So her distinguishing between them and other demons isn't even that irrational.

I do like the Shomonkai's, uh, teachings? They're given a lot more than in some other games, the whole Tower of Babel and Internet stuff is a pretty creative way to tie Biblical mythology with SMT cybermagic stuff. Yuzu's right though, fuck them and their God for setting up trials and then just sitting back and watching. Although Asahi said it better in Apocalypse. EDIT: It just seems like this world is a bit more thought out than some other SMT games in explaining how everything works.

Keisuke: Some people in this world harm society just by existing... They have no right to live!

Could I really refuse Midori asking to join the party? Seems unlikely., one of those fake choices and But Thou must situations so I just said yes. I don't know if my PC really has the patience to deal with her but an extra set of demons is always welcome.

I wonder if I fucked up somewhere. I gotta fight Kaido and Honda now to protect some dipshits? Is this because I got Midori? I'd rather have Kaido. I only grabbed Midori because I wanted an extra team member. The option of a fourth party member has come up very often after all.

So the angels are possibly behind the entire lockdown? Hm... At the very least Shoji saw angels giving orders to JSDF folks.

Alas poor Mari. Dunno if I fucked up there, I got her bag stuff on the previous day but didn't see anything about giving it to her.

Forget Mari, Kesuke just bit it, too. Huh, wonder why that happened. Not too fussed about it, really. I admire his passion but those who live by the sword die by the sword. Wonder what I did wrong. I was kinda ignoring the situation and encouraging Keisuke via email if that matters at all. It's none of my business what he and Kaido want to do to each other.

"Man's autonomy is valuable to [YHVH.]" Sorry Remiel, i think we played different games. Also i have disliked Amane all game but Remiel's infodump only made me dislike her all the more. Pretentious.

Jesus everybody is an idiot. The woman whose songs could summon demons is clearly Aya I guess they're acting dumb because you could have missed all that subplot. But I'm going to the place the next day at 12:00 - I'm not fucking this up. For Haru!

And hey Naoya out of nowhere. I intend to control all the demons, cousin. The "destroy the server" response though was intriguing. There's been no talk of that. The argument, such as it is, has been for controlling demons or destroying them. The idea of just eradicating the source has not been touched in my run.

So Japan is ready for China seizing Tokyo by microwaving them all to death. Just throwing a name out thre, Izuna said Japan fears occupation greatly so...who else could it be?

I saved Gin but he wants to destroy the demons and I don't so I guess there goes a potential fifth party member.

So I sided with the demons because fuck these angels. They trapped us in here in the first place. Unfortunately i then accidentally picked the choice to force Honda to stay in. I don't care if he wants to leave. This is exactly what I've been wanting to do all game; force your way through. The only person insisting he and everyone else stay is the angels and their lackeys.

...I guess I picked the right option originally. Huh.

At least according to a guy named Gigolo - and if you can't trust a Gigolo, who can you trust? - YHVH didn't make the De Su universe. Interesting.

So I have decided. I will become King of Bel. I was torn. Haru is part of the get rid of demons route, right? Maybe "go after the server" if that is all one path? But what's the endgame there? Take control of the demons with the server or destroy the demons with the server....but then what? Absolutely no one I've talked to has said a peep about that part. Naoya appears to be the only one interested in getting at the heart of the matter. These demons are unimportant, it's the angels who started all of this. This route opens the way to solving the current problem and taking care of future problems. I'm sorry to see Yuzu go (and I guess Midori went too. Who cares) but I got Naoya and Kaido. I probably traded up.

And I think I'll stop and post this and go eat. Probably have to do some grinding and stuff anyway before I actually pursue Plot. It's been quite the game. Then again, I guess since I'm playing the awesome remake, this isn't even as the beginning of the climax anymore. There is an 8th day right?

Saving both Keisuke and Mari has a counterintuitive solution. Once you get Mari's bag, you're supposed to give it to Kaido, so he'll be too busy helping out in the battle against Kudlak instead of killing Keisuke.

And I suppose you skipped the Black Frost event. Well, it involves Midori, and looks like you hate her a lot.

Your MC is magic, right? I'm not sure there are enough good physical skills to divide between a phys MC, Atsuro, and Kaido.

"Angels did nothing but help us so far". Well, if you're willing to overlook the massive amount of law demons we fight in the sectors, including the very one mastema gives to Zel. Unless you wanna call that a massive case of Gameplay and Story Segregation.

Edited by Yumil on Mar 11th 2019 at 9:03:25 AM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

I am magic, yeah. I was worried there wouldn't be enough skills to spread between just Kaido and Atsuro. There is but it was a lot tougher than magic.

I did have Midori for a while but no Black Frost. That sucks.

Thanks for the info about everything. I'm currently sighing and looking at ungoldy amounts of grinding for money and EXP.... I just want to continue the story dammit. Oh well.

Yeah, you need to see an optional event with Midori to make Black Frost join you later. He only joins you on Gin and Naoya's routes, though.

Also I wanna respond to because you said something similar to what somebody else responded to me on another forum when I talked about how it was the angels who put us in this hell and not the demons. They said Angels ARE demons.

I don't like this argument. Literally every SMT game I've played that has anything to do with this kind of stuff is built around Angels hating Demons and Demons hating Angels. The distinction is made every time the subject comes up in this game: Atsuro freaks out when I said to fight the angels and side with the demons. He's killed thousands of demons by this point but he was having a fit when I said to attack angels. Naoya knows more than he does and he also hates angels and God, not demons.

Needless to say the topic also comes up constantly in SJ and SMTIV and its sequel.

Is YHVH, Lucifer and all the rest of them the same type of being? Sure, just like you and I are both humans and we're technically the same as a caveman who lived thousands of years ago. It's a meaningless statement to say Angels are Demons because the Angels don't see themselves as Demons and the Demons don't see Angels as one of them. They are all fundamentally different, which is unsurprising of sapient beings.

And yes I do take it as G&S Segregation, just like how you can have Merkabah on your team when you fight Merkabah in Apocalypse. Those random angels you fight in SJ are just....there, they clearly have no effect on the plot or your character.

Edited by Nikkolas on Mar 11th 2019 at 5:07:43 AM

For a second playthrough, be aware that Keisuke's survival is a prerequisite for Atsuro's route. Also, you can only fight Loki on Amane's route, Yuzu's route, and one of the 8th days in Overclocked if you want to unlock him for fusion.

Edited by CybranGeneralSturm on Mar 11th 2019 at 5:08:01 AM

I'll keep that all in mind then. Thank you.

What are the differences in the routes? Like it seems there are two or maybe three "main" endings. Become King of Bel, go to the server, or join Amane.

Gin's route: All demons are sent back to their realm, including Black Frost.

Amane's route: MC becomes the new Messiah, setting the stage for a confrontation with Okuninushi in her 8th day.

Naoya's route: MC becomes the Overlord, causing Metatron to continue the lockdown and try to kill the MC before he fully awakens to his powers.

Atsuro's route: Japan uses the power of demons to obtain a permanent spot on the UN Security Council.

Yuzu's route: The lockdown is broken and demons can get to the world at large, although you can fix this horrible mistake unlike in the original DS game.

Long story short: three routes have new content in Overclocked that I largely covered in spoiler tags. In terms of battles, you fight Bishamon, Koumoku, and Zouchou on every route except for Yuzu's route.

Edited by CybranGeneralSturm on Mar 11th 2019 at 5:24:17 AM

I'm not convinced by the case of gameplay and story segregation because it's juxtaposed right next to a cool example of integration where jimenez, in the one fight where you see him use demons, use demons whose personalities matches him perfectly, so I'm not really buying the idea that it doesn't count this one time because reasons. I don't know the specifics of the scenario you're referring to, but form my understanding SJ doesn't let you make impossible scenarios like that until NG+.

As for demons and angels, again, angels are summoned by something literally called demon summoning program by discount YHVH. it's not a modern homo sapiens vs caveman scenario, it's a black men vs white men (or any other significant two factions of homo sapiens that opposes each other on ideological grounds, which there are plenty of examples) scenario. They do not see themselves as the same thing but in the same way white supremacists would shudder at the idea of sharing a species with the guys they want to purge. As far as I'm concerned, demons and angels like to pretend they're separate things because that's what propaganda teaches them while the universe literally comes in and say that they are metaphysically the same thing.

Edited by Yumil on Mar 11th 2019 at 1:25:57 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

There are 5 routes:

• Naoya/Kaidou: The Chaos route
• Amane: The Law route. You join forces with the angels to create God's kingdom.
• Gin: Traditional Neutral route. You try to use Haru's song to banish the demons back to their world.
• Atsuro: Alternative Neutral . You hack the server so demons can be used for the goods of humanity.
• Yuzu: You say "screw all this" and try to escape the lockdown anyway. This is downright a bad ending until Overclocked added the 8th day.

Only Naoya, Amane, and Yuzu's routes have an 8th Day.

• Naoya: You became the Demon King and obviously the angels are not happy about it, so they try to goad the humans against you. Have 2 endings depending on your choices.
• Amane: The angels try to do their usual bullshit, and the Japanese gods aren't happy about their country being ruled by filthy gaijins. Time for you to step in and prove you can handle this without their interventions.
• Yuzu: You dun' goofed and now everything's got really bad. Fortunately, there still seems a way for you to get things right again.

Thank you for the details. How long is Naoya's 8th day? I've had fun but I'm eager to start on the second game. Hear it has better gameplay which is a relief. I don't think I'm meant for TRPG's in general but maybe a better system will be more enjoyable.

Another question, this time about SJR. I've heard the new endings are sort of like Nocturne's True Demon Ending? You go through a dungeon and do stuff and then when you go along the Law or Neutral or Chaos Route like normal, it will veer off into the new endings?

Is it like TDE where you can go everything except go down the final ladder or whatever it was and THAT is the point of no return? Will there be an exact moment where you choose to stay on the normal endings or go of into new endings?

Although I've heard the new endings are generally preferred across the board.

The 8th days are a little more story-dense so they're just a bit longer than the average day. Naoya's 8th Day in particular has both a "good" and "evil" path. Which one you choose effects which characters are available to field and some of the enemy lineups, but the general flow and final boss of the route is the same. Once beating one you're even given the option to immediately replay it to pick the other path.

As for your question about Redux, that's basically it. If you complete the new dungeon you'll eventually reach a point of no return in the main story that pretty much straight-up asks "Do you want to do the new ending paths?".

Edited by ComicX6 on Mar 11th 2019 at 10:13:11 AM

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