Jojo's Bizarre Adventure

The way I always saw the final punch is that basically, The World is DIO's big yellow flashing weak point. DIO's body may be vampiric and immortal, but his soul isn't, and The World is literally his soul. Star Platinum does much more damage exploding The World's leg than it does punching DIO's head.

I mean, but Jotaro being able to move in stopped time itself came out of nowhere. Both it and stopping time came out of nowhere and never got a proper explanation beyond "Same time of Stand as The World" which in this context, isn't even made clear what that's supposed to mean.

Calling it an Ass Pull is pretty fair game, and it's a bit surprising if this is the first time you've heard it called that.

Edited by LSBK on Aug 21st 2019 at 12:55:17 PM

I completely agree with your post! And it's far from the first time I've seen that point being argued. the thing is, the point you just described is not the point being argued by the writer of Soble's link,that's the thing.

he's fine with jotaro suddenly moving in the stopped time but not him stopping time itself. He's taking issue specifically with jotaro deciding to initiate the time stop at the end, which is the thing that makes no sense because there's no additionnal power to gain between moving in stopped time and initiating the time stop.

Edited by Yumil on Aug 21st 2019 at 8:02:33 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

But we see multiple times in Stardust Crusaders itself that damage to a vampire and damage to a human are two different things. DIO and Vanilla Ice get skewered through the brain by Polnareff and this barely slows them down.

Damage to a Stand would logically be fatal to a human being because a Stand getting a hole blown through it's stomach would reflect to the user, and that'd kill most human beings. DIO? DIO got a hole blown through his stomach from Jotaro and was more surprised that Jotaro hit him than about the hole in his gut.

Breaking a person's leg then hitting that same spot shouldn't cause that person to explode.

Part 1 Dio got split in half with a sword imbued with energy that was specifically fatal to vampires. He had be overloaded with this energy to the point that the rest of his body disintegrated and, even then, he was a talking head with tentacles strong enough to decapitate a human being.

Heck, Straizo got blown to kingdom come by several grenades attached to his body. DIO got punched in the Stand and healed from it.

I won't say it was a thematic disappointment - I do like the "quick draw" given who Jotaro's dub VA is, but what Jotaro did doesn't seem to line up with how durable Vampires were portrayed as being.

Edited by Soble on Aug 21st 2019 at 3:17:52 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

I mean this one goes against vampires having their brains as a weakpoint, technically, so it doesn't really hlep your case either.

We're never told that vampires can survive their litteral soul shattering, and it's not something that has precedent for, either.

No. no, that's not how it works. As PMC pointed out, stands are a litteral manifestation of the soul. That much is stated very early into part 3. on top of standard damage transfer, shattering it outright equates to breaking someone's soul, not just punching them through the stomach. that's not a thing vampires are immune to. It usually doesn't matter because most users die of their wounds long before their stands does, but it does matter in Dio's case, because Stands are actually less resilient than vampires.

Again, missing the point that destroying a stand is equivalent to destroying the soul of someone on top of the physical damage inflicted, irrelevant.

The sword was presented as a weaker conductor to hamon than direct contact. He precisely avoided total desintegration by splitting his head off his body before the full power of johnathan's direct-contact attack reaches his head precisely because it would have killed him for sure.

His offensive power as a head is irrelevant to the fact he was objectively extremely weak at this point and would've been killed for good had he not taken johnathan by surprise.

It's not that vampires are even more durable than they should be, it's that dio has surviving as a driving motivation through everything, as well as insane, fate-given luck.

Edited by Yumil on Aug 21st 2019 at 8:24:51 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

Citation needed because we're told Stands are a physical manifestation of the user's fighting spirit but that's not the same thing as being their soul.

If I recall correctly DIO didn't die from having his stand destroyed, according to one of the Speedwagon employees, he still needed to be exposed to sunlight to kill him for good.

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"

They're a manifestation of the users fighting spirit. Stands are literally the part of your spirit that wants to fight. It's literal, not metaphorical.

In Part 6, there's a Stand called Bohemian Rhapsody, which brings all fictional characters to life and also separates people into two halves: body and soul. The body and soul function basically as two of the same person, except the soul is invisible to anyone aside from other souls and the fictional characters, and the soul is also the half that keeps the user's Stand.

Okay I think we clearly have different understandings on what fighting spirit means. Because to me that refers to your willingness to fight which makes it completely different from your soul whereas others see it as literally your soul.

That being said, Jotaro destroying DIO's soul with a punch doesn't make much sense but it is a good explanation for why punching at the end worked when the punch at the start didn't.

An interesting theory I heard was because DIO attacked Jotaro with his left leg and he said before how the left side of his body was weaker and slower to regenerate than the rest of him. Therefore the reason why punching worked then and not before was because Jotaro was punching the weaker side.

There's also a lot linking Stands and souls throughout Parts 3 through 6. Aside from the Part 6 example given above, Joseph explains Stands as a manifestation of your spirit early in Part 3 and Polnareff sees Iggy and Avdol's souls ascending to heaven at the end of Part 3.

In Part 4, the Stand users of Morioh are able to see and interact with Reimi because they have Stands and they're inherently more connected with their spiritual sides.

In Part 5, Silver Chariot Requiem's ability swaps the souls of people to different bodies, but their souls keep their Stands in the move to their new bodies, the Stands are linked to their souls. Also in Part 5, Giorno sees Bruno's soul moving on to the afterlife accompanied by angels.

I mean yeah Stands being linked to the soul makes sense but I wouldn't say that makes them one in the same. Hell every time we see souls in the anime it's literally the user we see, not their Stand so if anything doesn't that disprove the idea that they're one and the same?

Yeah, my bad on that, it is the fighting spirit in particular, but as PMC again poits out in spoiler, jojo seems to treat that as a tangible thing intimely linked to the soul more often than not. Destroying a physical manifestation of your spirit ought to cause damage that even vampires can't heal. And yeah, Dio doesn't technically die from the punchout, it's the sunlight that finishes him off, and it's unclear whether he's not conscious from being in a vegetative state or just simply having no head at all.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

It's not so much that Stands are just the soul, more that they are a part of the user's soul. Anytime a Stand user's soul is messed with in the series, it is shown to have a direct impact on the Stand as well. At least, the Silver Chariot Requiem and Bohemian Rhapsody examples show that Stands are much more closely linked to the user's soul than they are linked to the user's body or mind.

Also, in Diavolo's case when dealing with Silver Chariot Requiem, it seems like King Crimson is literally just his entire soul.

There's also the part about cheap trick, where once he latches onto rohan, counts as a separate soul for the morioh alley to grab.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

Another example is Black Sabbath. When it attacks Mario the Janitor it pulls out his soul which takes the form of a ghostly janitor, but when it attacks Giorno it yanks out Gold Experience instead.

Jojo vampires are probably the most hurt by sunlight than any vampire I've ever seen in fiction. They literally don't even last a few seconds, most vampires could at least have about 10 seconds of dashing to somewhere dark before they completely burst in flames

Edited by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 on Aug 22nd 2019 at 3:01:34 AM

How quickly sunlight kills Vampires is the reason Dio even lived long enough to become a Vampire.

One Strip! One Strip!

DIO still being alive after he was defeated was also how Joseph survived. They were able to use his still living remains to give Joseph a blood transfusion.

I wonder how Jojolion is going to end. So far, every single Part has either had Jojo develop a new power to beat the opponent's OP ability, or the opponent develop a new crazy OP power, or both. I can't imagine Josuke would need to evolve Soft and Wet just to fight Speed King, but it also seems like Tsurugi's Stand, Paper Moon King, is in the process of evolving into a new form due to his father corrupting him to evil and putting him under a lot of stress.

I've been assuming the countdown to the new Rokakaka fruit means that when it's ripe, Jobin will eat one and it will make his Stand stronger in exchange for either Tsurugi's Stand or Kaato's Stand. Maybe Josuke then also eats one of the new Rokakaka and evolves his Stand into the elephant in the room with the Higashikata naming scheme: King Crimson.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 22nd 2019 at 1:43:18 AM

What if he uses the fruit to try and heal his son, only for them to merge into a single being with King Crimson?

Maybe, though it would be using King Crimson as the main villain's Stand for a second time.

So, you know how a bunch of people were asking to get the Purple Haze Feedback novel adapted into a series of OVAs in the aftermath of Vento Aureo?

Well, screw that, apparently we're getting more Rohan OVAs. Yaaay.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 22nd 2019 at 4:14:12 AM

that's true, but considering the sheer power of King Crimson and what it took to defeat it, i find it hard to believe it'll be given to the hero.

Well, I was imagining Josuke would get it for the final battle of Part 8, like Giorno with Gold Experience Requiem.

Wouldn't KC be nerfed after the final battle like SP:TW was?

Edited by Fedetropes on Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:47:18 AM

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"