Another Shin Megami Tensei Game

There have been a great many SMT and Persona games that have been purposed, created and (unfortunately) lost. But even before I found those great games being created, I was creating a game for, well, the entire game-verse. I'll post the rest of it when I either get out of school or this Saturday, but I'll definitely be posting it soon and some of my ideas very soon.

edited 1st Dec '10 8:22:35 PM by Otogi

There was already a thread for that.

...But to be honest, I don't know where it is. Buried around here. It had a lot of good stuff, too. (I guess it got deleted)

Are you interested in doing this from scratch?

If you are, I'll be happy to try this out with you.

edited 26th Nov '10 11:25:34 AM by Neccy60

http://www.last.fm/user/BlueGhost60

I actually have quite a lot of it figured out, (with obvious inspiration from the previous game because the ideas shot out were just amazing and I highly suggest anyone interested in SMT check it out) but I would just love some help, because just deciding the rolling system is really biting me in the ass. Should I send you a PM of what I've got so far?

You might as well post it here, right? That way anyone else who's interested in joining the project could see and comment.

Sounds great, Duranzo!

Base Mechanic

2d6 + modifiers

Stats, Levels and Experience

Stats fall into the 6 original stats from the first SMT games: Strength (Physical Attack and Damage), Magic (Magic Damage and MP), Intelligence (Magic Attack and Negotiations), Agility (Evasion and Turn Order), Vitality (Defense and HP) and Luck (Critical Hits, Random Drops and Escape Attempts).

At character creation, everybody gets 24 points to spread amongst these stats, with a cap of 6 at 1st level. Characters gain 1 more stat point every level.

Alright, with stats out of the way, there's levels and XP. There are 30 levels in total, and you need 10 XP to level up each time (meaning that the amount you need to level up never changes [thought that may change]). You get XP for mostly for combat, usually by fighting an enemy from -2 to +2 the party level. Fighting enemies +3 (and for every +2)the party level grants an extra XP per 2 levels, while enemies -3 the party level give no XP. Mini-bosses also give +1 XP, while bosses give +2 XP. You can also gain XP from special challenges or just good roleplaying.

edited 1st Dec '10 8:26:03 PM by Otogi

Classes

These represent several of the playable characters found in the Shin Megami Tensei franchise. There are 8 in total, but most of them come in two categories: Summoners and Enhancers. Summoners call demons to assist them in combat, while Enhancers empower themselves (either using personae or shifting into a demonic form). The classes (and their basis/inspiration) are:

• Demon Controller [Shin Megami Tensei I, II & Strange Journey] - Can call 2 demons into battle, but lack special abilities
• Devil Summoner [Soul Hackers, Raidou Kuzunoha] - Can call a demon into battle, let's them advance faster and can use special "combination skills"
• Persona User [Persona 3 & 4) - Can empower themselves with an ever-evolving persona
• Avatar Tuner [Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2] - Can transform into a suped-up demonic form
• Wild Card [Persona 1, 2, 3 & 4] - Can empower themselves with a variety of static personae
• Devil Child [Devil Children & Demi Kids] - Has a permanent demon ally that can improve and evolve through fusion, though they aren't restricted to only using them.
• Demon Sponsored/Demi-Fiend [Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocture] - A part demon that can call another demon and evolve using demonic essence
• Demon General [Majin Tensei I, II and Devil Survivor] - Can call a demon and enhance them with special abilities

As of right now, these are all just sketches on a notebook without much detail. Something I do know is that none of them are set up into any role like fighter, caster or healer; stats and demon/persona/skill selection do that. Most of them have also have a bank limiting to the amount of something they can have (such as demons for summoners and skills for Avatar Tuners). This increases with level.

There might also be advanced classes that allow the P Cs to specialize into something like Half-Demon or the like if I can come up with more (and give them a better name)

If I ever get a proper handle on these classes, I'll probably make other classes emulating games like Shin Megami Tensei: If... or the magic-using companions from the first few games. Hey, maybe I'll set up playable demons!

edited 1st Dec '10 8:20:40 PM by Otogi

Abilties

Defining characteristics that characters gain as they advance through the game (though they gain 2 at 1st level). They're the feats or merits of the game, and are divided into two different categories: General and Class, which are pretty self-explanatory. Some of them have prerequisites, from being 1st level, to having high enough stats to having another ability. Some so far are Favored Arcana/Species, Improved Fusion, Mesian/Gaian and Non-Human.

I have some of them down just fine, but others need some work and I'm still not even sure how a few will work out in the game. I know I listed a few already, but here's a complete list of what I've got so far:

• Non-Human (Now in Animal, Machine, Manikin/Innocent and Shadow flavor, but a bit of a mystery)
• Mesian (Bonus to Neg. for Law, vs. Chaos)
• Gaean (Bonus to Neg. for Chaos, vs. Law)
• Improved Fusion (Fusion is now demon's level/demons fused + 1)
• Favored Arcana/Species (Bonus to Neg. and vs. a specific species or arcana)
• Favored Skill (Gain a bonus on using a skill tree such as Agi or multi-attack physical)
• Exceptional Talent (Gain a bonus to non-combat checks)
• Reduced Summoning (Summoning demons costs less MP)
• Alert (Less likely to become surprised)
• Shared Body (Still not sure)
• Companion (Someone to help with mundande and maybe story tasks, but that's all I have so far)
• Weapon Specialist (Gain a bonus to Attack and Damage with a particular weapon type)
• Sythesizer (Can enchant weapons are armor)
• Diplomat (Straight bonus to Neg.)
• Juggernaut (Bonus to HP)
• Arcane (Bonus to MP)
• Child of Myth (Bonus to Neg. and vs. demons of a specific mythology)
• Berzerker (Avatar Tuners become half-demons with high attack & criticals, but low defense and the inablitiy to use skills)

Still more to come, of course!

edited 1st Dec '10 4:29:10 PM by Otogi

Gear

The standard affair of things found in most games: Weapons (both Melee and Ranged), Ammo, Armor, Accessories, Tools and Items. Weapons have an Accuracy and Power rating (both enhanced by Strength) and Armors have a DEF and EVA rating (enhanced by Vitality and Agility respectively). Accessories give special bonuses like elemental resistances, stat boosts or status effect prevention. Tools are equipment demon/persona summoners need to do their summons. They also give bonuses like increased stock and stat bonuses to summons. Items are one-use nick-knacks that heal HP, heal MP, cure status ailments, deal damage or status ailments, resurrect allies and even permanently increase stats. Ranged weapons also have ammo that allows the wielder to deal elemental damage or status ailments with the weapon.

Every character has 6 gear slots: 2 weapon slots, an ammo slot, an armor slot, an accessory slot and a tool slot. Demon Sponsored, however, have only 1 slot: magatama. Magatama act as a weapon, armor and accessory all in one. They cannot be bought, only gained as a Demon Sponsored increases in level.

Currency used to pay for items and equipment, amongst other things. Usually Yen in the human world (or not, whatever) and Macca in the Makai or Makai-fied world.

edited 1st Dec '10 8:26:59 PM by Otogi

Skills

Or more accurately, spells and powers. Skills allow characters and demons to attack with higher and elemental damage, boost stats, heal and many other things. They come in different type, such as Physical, Fire, Expel, Recovery or Ailment. Demons also have affinities that aligned with a certain type that lessen the stat prerequisite to learn skills (see below) by about 1 (perhaps 2).

In order to learn a certain skill, a character or demon needs to have stats at least as high as the prerequisite listed in the description (e.g., VIT 8 and MAG 5) and be able to reach the skill tier. Skill Tiers go from 1 to 9, and a character or demon can access tiers of their level/3, rounded down (so a level 14 character can learn tier 4 skills and can learn tier 5 when they level up).

Skills require a certain expenditure of HP (for physical) or MP (for everything else), but can also be passive, meaning they are always active and never need to spend either HP or MP.

A homebrew megaten game, color me interested.

L-l-look at you, hacker. A p-p-pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you r-run through my corridors-s. H-h-how can you

Combat

Also known as the 'ol Press Turn system. Just like the newer games of Shin Megami Tensei (except Strange Journey for some strange reason), whenever someone scores a critical hit or hits the elemental weakness on somebody else, that someone gets an extra "half-turn" to attack, use a skill/item or pass. On the other hand, scoring a critical miss or using an element that somebody else blocks, absorbs or reflects causes that someone to lose not only their turn ends regardless of how many half-turns they had. One can gain as many half-turns as they want, but can only accrue one per enemy.

Before any of that begins, however, everyone makes an Initiative roll to see who goes when. The highest goes first, the second highest goes second and so on.

On their turn, characters have several options listed here:

• Attack (Make an attack against an opponent with a weapon)
• Skill (Use a skill)
• Defend (Reduce the amount of damage take by 50%, but are unable to evade)
• Talk (Try to open negotiations with the target [see below])
• Item (Use an item)
• Summon/Change (Summon a demon, switch personae or change form. Switching personae doesn't actually use a turn)
• Pass (Give a turn to someone else, as well as an extra half-turn)
• Escape (A group action, allowing to escape with a collective Strength vs. Agility contest)

Combatants have 4 combat statistics:

• Attack (Weapon/Skill Accuracy + Str/Int + 2d6)
• Damage (Weapon/Skill Power + Str/Mag + 2d6)
• Evasion (Armor EVA + Agi)
• Defense (Armor DEF + Vit)

For an attack to connect, an attack roll must match or exceed the defender's evasion score. If the attack hits, the attacker makes a damage roll, subtracting the amount from the defender's defense. If the attack rolls under the defender's evasion score, the attack misses. Either an attacker or can deliberately fail any of these checks (especially useful when a defender has a particular elemental reaction; see below)

When a combatant rolls a natural 10, 11 or 12 on an attack, they score a critical hit, dealing double damage and giving the attacker a half-turn. Before the attacker can do this, however, he has to make an attack roll, adding his Luck bonus.

Combatants usually have some special reaction to elemental attacks. Here's a list of the degrees the elements might effect a combatant:

• Weak: Takes 50% more damage from the element
• Resist: Takes 50% less damage from the element
• Block: Takes no damage from the element
• Reflect: The attacker takes the damage
• Drain: Any damage that would have happened is instead healed

Combatants can have multiple reactions to different elements, but reactions don't stack and only the higher reaction works (Drain > Reflect > Block > Resist > Weak)

During combat, combatants may sometimes be afflicted with some kind of impairment. These are called status ailments, which debuff whoever is afflicted with them. A list of them so far:

• Poison: Loses HP every turn until at 10%, lowers defense
• Silence: Unable to use skills, summon or change
• Confusion: Random chance of either doing nothing, attacking allies, helping enemies or acting * normal
• Rage: Will always attack enemies. Highers power, but lowers accuracy and defense
• Fear: Won't do anything, may run from the battle
• Exhaustion: Losses MP every turn until at 10%
• Enervation: Halves stats
• Charmed: Switches sides

(Might add down, dizzy and stone, but not sure).

Fusion Skills: When using a certain arrangement of skills, two or more players can initiate a special attack called a Fusion Skill. To initiate a fusion skill, each player part of the initiation must use a skill from the prerequisite. The fusion skill is activated when the last initiator, but until then, enemies and allies can do as still use their turns and go on.

Whenever an enemy attacks, have an Agility vs. Luck roll for each character (enemies can roll against more than one character). If the enemy is successful, it (and only it) gets a free half-action on whoever it won against in the contest. If the character is successful, they don't get attacked...unless it's by another enemy (or maybe they're just immune since they already see it coming; not totally sure). After the surprise, roll initiative as normal and continue. Remember, the players can also surprise an enemy they know of if they take the special precautions (hiding in the shadows, getting to higher ground, trojan horse, etc.)

edited 5th Dec '10 4:24:12 PM by Otogi

Negotiations

Fighting isn't the only was to deal with demons. At anytime during battle you may try to talk to a demon with a Neg check. When you first talk to a demon, you take a stance, whether Friendly or Threatening. Depending on the demon's personality and what stance you take, you either gain a +3 bonus, -3 penalty or neither. After that, each person in the party can make a check, adding bonuses or penalties depending on what they say and whether the demon likes it or not. Different personalities like different things, of course, and even the demons with the same personality act and feel differently than others. Bonuses and penalties range from 1 to 5. Positive and negative reactions are cumulative, and every demon has a threshold that may cause them to attack, retreat, heal the party, give an item or join in (see below).

If you have the same demon with you, make a Luck check. If you succeed, the demon gives you an item. If not, they either attack or flee (50/50). If the demons happens to be dead, the roll is an automatic failure.

Additionally, Light and Dark demons are difficult or even impossible to recruit, sometimes even to talk to. In order to do so, the time must be at it's maximum rating or a character must have a special skill, like Dark Talk or Hymn.

• Attack: The demon attacks, gaining a surprise round.
• Retreat: The demon flees, possibly by being asked
• Item/Heal: The demon grants an item, or heals you/one of your demons
• Join: The demon joins your stock

As demons come in many shapes and size, so do their personalities. Here is an undetailed list of some I've made (and a few I took from the previous project )

• Trickster
• Pious
• Hedonist
• Sagacious
• Narcissist
• Foppish
• Artistic
• Seductive
• Child-like
• Adolescent
• Animalistc/Beastly
• Jack
• Knightly

edited 1st Dec '10 8:14:05 PM by Otogi

Alignment, Time and Non-Combat (?)

Alignment is how characters view the universe, whether through a Lawful or Chaotic view. It is measured in a meter going from 12 (Law) to -12 (Chaos). Most characters are considered neutral until they reach either +8 or -8, at which point they become lawful or chaotic,

Law believes in order, peace and tradition. Chaos believes in freedom, change and adaptability. Neutral, the balance between the two, believe in personal empowerment, individuality and inherit strength.

This is pretty much a roleplay thing, as it would be pretty tedious to track down every law and chaos opponent you fight (although fighting an entire lawful or chaotic stronghold or organization might be different...). Also, Light and Dark are only measured for demons since I'm not quite sure what a "light" and "dark" action is in SMT.

Time Phases – A way to determine time and it's effect on the world, opening up fusions, new enemies, new forms for Avatar Tuners, etc. Usually go from 1-8. Usually determined by phases of the moon, but may be determined by weather or even seasons. The phase (at least for the moon) changes with each rest, terminal visit, otherwise non-combat action or just plain waiting around.

Non-Combat: In a sitsuation requiring a certain amount of skill (like moving something heavy or hacking a computer) requires a check to do, usually rolling 2d6+Stat Modifier.

Enemies and Fusion

Creatures and things you fight against, such as demons, shadows and regular humans

Every creature belong to a species, their physical being and how demon summoners categorize them. This determines their stats, alignments and sometimes personality. A list of them are:

• Gods
• Goddess
• Avatars
• Divine
• Fallen
• Viles
• Furies
• Fiends
• Femme
• Earth Mothers
• Dragons
• Fairies
• Demigods
• Tyrants
• Birds
• Beasts
• Holy Beasts
• Wilders
• Haunts
• Fouls
• Elementals

Every creature also belongs to an Arcana, their spiritual being and the way persona summoners categorize them. This determines the elemental affinity and tactical focus of the monster.

• Fool
• Magician
• Priestess
• Empress
• Emperor
• Hierophant
• Lovers
• Chariot
• Justice
• Hermit
• Fortune
• Strength
• Hanged Man
• Death
• Temperance
• Devil
• Star
• Moon
• Sun
• Judgment
• World

Affinity is the particular skill focus a demon/persona has. It's what they focus in, and they receive an ease on stat prerequisites for skills (tiers still apply, though).

• Physical
• Fire
• Ice
• Electricity
• Wind
• Almighty
• Expel
• Curse
• Ailment
• Recovery
• Support

Fusion: Every demon has a listing of what they can be fused with and what they make. Formula is Demon Level's/Demon's Fused. Species/Arcana is the 1st demon + the 2nd demon, going by chart.

Rank: A"demon's level". Starts at one, but grows as used. Each has a max of 8 levels. They only have to gain 3 XP rather than 10 to level, but only gain skills (and only every 1-3 levels). Everytime they level, the summoner makes a Luck roll. If succeed, the demon/persona gains a mutation when they gain a rank, giving them a stat bonus, a hidden skill or a mutation skill (against their affinity, i.e., a Jack Frost learning Maragi). They always have a skill above their level at or near the end of their rank.

And as far as I know, that's most of what I've got. Keen eyes will see that I have taken quite a few notes from Final Fantasty d6 [1]. I tried to distance myself from it, but when someone does something perfect for JRP Gs and it's so good, it's kinda hard. The base roll, the abilities and the perfect-30-cut off are just fantastic. I actually tried to contact the author, and he seems to be alright with it, but I don't have direct confirmation, so feel free to contact him on the board if this seems a little to copyright-y.

Like I said, this is just a sketch, but with that in mind, I'm still have trouble with a couple of things. Here's a list of them that' I'm just noticing:

• A way to implement Half-Demons and Ascended
• How to balance out Summoners vs. Enhancers
• Figuring out Bosses and Mini-Bosses
• Handling and balance of abilities
• Whether or not to put in technical "skills", like driving or athletics.
• Ruling whether physical skills use a percentage of HP like in newer games or a straight number like in older games
• Determining skill stat prerequisites
• Differentiating weapons
• Handling tools
• Figuring out a good income of money
• Figuring out All-Out Attacks

But, other than that, what do you guys think?

edited 1st Dec '10 8:49:09 PM by Otogi

I still stand by my earlier statement.

L-l-look at you, hacker. A p-p-pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you r-run through my corridors-s. H-h-how can you

Just saw your PM. Least I think it was your PM. O.O Mannn, you have a lot of stuff. How long have you been working on this? I'll read it all and tell you what I think.

http://www.last.fm/user/BlueGhost60

Can't say I'll be particularly helpful (I'm awful at math taught beyond the 4th grade), but I'll do what I can.

• A way to implement Half-Demons and Ascended

Not sure what Ascended is...however, you can make Half-Demon/Demifiend an optional (or if storyline dictates, non-optional) prestige class.

• How to balance out Summoners vs. Enhancers

Well, one problem I see is that many of these classes seem to be redundant for a starter. The unique ones seem to be Demon Controller, Devil Summoner, Persona User, and Avatar Tuner; the others don't seem very useful (except the Demifiend). After all, not all bases need to be touched.

I'd say turning some of these into prestige classes: I'm referring to Demifiend/Half-Demon/Hito-Shura, Wild Card (I read up on this and it sounds more useful), and Demon General. Both of these could pass as stronger versions of existing classes (Wild Card for Persona, Demon General for Demon Summoner) or just something that can be acquired due to reward/storyline(Hito-Shura)

• Figuring out Bosses and Mini-Bosses

Well, we could just take the bosses from previous games and buff/debuff them accordingly. I'd imagine it would be mostly buffing, though. In any case, there's a massive amount of them that we can figure out once we start a Demonic Compendium/Monster Manual and would probably involve test runs as well (you want to get started on that, btw, or do you want all the mechanics set in stone first?)

• Handling and balance of abilities

Well, it seems that Enhancers should have more skills to choose from than Summoners, seeing as they're lone wolves. Also, consdier limiting certain skills to certain classes.

• Whether or not to put in technical "skills", like driving or athletics

lol no

Actually yeah, I don't see the problem, so long as we don't make about 100000 skills for all sorts of different things. Upon reflection I can see the benefit of driving a tank to crash into King Frost. I do think this shouldn't be a primary concern, though.

• Ruling whether physical skills use a percentage of HP like in newer games or a straight number like in older games

I'd go with percentage rounded down over a straight number. This way, a Glass Cannon won't get totally obliterated in a turn while a Mighty Glacier stoutly goes Deathbound for 5 turns.

• Determining skill stat prerequisites

Pretty straight forward. Say Garu takes a minimum of 4 Intellegence, while Magaru takes 7, Garula more, etc. As far as anything definitive, I'd need to do some research.

• Differentiating weapons

Again, not too bad. Crib from the games, toss in a bit of spice, etc. I believe there are listing of each game's equipement and what they can do/hit rate/etc. Of course, certain classes should have better/worse proficiencies in certain weapons than others.

• Handling tools

Uh. What do you consider tools?

• Figuring out a good income of money

Steal bicycles! WITH JACK FROST FUCK YEAH

This would seem to depend on if the world we're creating has two seperate worlds (Earth/Makai) or is a fusion, or some sort of invasion, etc. Demons having yen/U.S. Dollars dropping everywhere is much easier explained if the worlds aren't seperate imo. On the other hand, demons dropping macca, the currency of choice of Makai, makes sense. Maybe the world's made some sort of deal with the demons like in SMTII, when Lucifuge prints the money everyone uses?

• Figuring out All-Out Attacks

Those sound like instant death in an tabletop RPG, with the enemy being on their backs and tmporarily helpless. (Least that's what I've read up.) This depends on what you want to do about a down status.

Alternatively, you can just double attacks.

Maybe I'll try generating test characters with what's here, make up a demon, etc.

I have a few more random things to say as well:

• Intelligence should determine MP, while Magic determines spell power and defense.

• The Critical Hit bar is a little too high, I'd say it a 11 or 12 to crit and not a 10, 11 or 12. It's a little more special. :3

• I think you should add Paralyze as a status condition. Not 100% immobility, more like 25%.

• Also, Gun damage should be deprived from Speed.

EDIT:

• Let's not forget the magical element stones like Bufula Stone, Agilao, etc. Those should deprive from the Magic Stat if they don't have fixed damage. Maybe add a nice feat for them too. It's a good way to get Summoners magic capabilities without being brokenish.

^ Speaking of which, are Persona Users basically magicians? It seems that way. However, I've never played Persona, so I'm not sure how to quite balance them.

edited 3rd Dec '10 9:26:36 AM by Neccy60

http://www.last.fm/user/BlueGhost60

• Not sure what Ascended is...however, you can make Half-Demon/Demifiend an optional (or if storyline dictates, non-optional) prestige class.
  • Ascended are pretty much half-angels or people chosen by God, like Law Hero and Zelenin. Half-Demons are just people fused with demons, like Chaos Hero and Jimenez.

  • Prestige classes are an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how to implement them. Should there be some kind of level (maybe around 10 or 15). Are they mandatory, where if you want to still continue as your class, they choose a sort of "master" class, like "Master Demon Controller?" Should they have other prerequisites, such as stats, abilities alignment, or should they just have, say, a class prerequisite and things like alignment change when the advance in the class. Should probably pick a name other than prestige classes, too ("Fates"? "Paths"?)

• Well, one problem I see is that many of these classes seem to be redundant. The unique ones seem to be Demon Controller, Devil Summoner, Persona User, and Avatar Tuner; the others don't seem very useful (except the Demifiend). After all, not all bases need to be touched.
  • I suppose a I could see just using those for now. Maybe I can work on some after I have everything planned out with the other classes. One thing I want to keep is Demi-Fiend, if only because I want the fans of SMT III to pick one from the start.

• Well, we could just take the bosses from previous games and buff/debuff them accordingly. I'd imagine it would be mostly buffing, though. In any case, there's a massive amount of them that we can figure out once we start a Demonic Compendium/Monster Manual and would probably involve test runs as well (you want to get started on that, btw, or do you want all the mechanics set in stone first?)
  • That sounds pretty good. I was actually thinking about doing a template, where anybody can be boss (even Jack Frost was a boss, once, and he was tough!). Also might pretty good for emulating a Maniax mode (TPK by Pixie, lulz!)

• Well, it seems that Enhancers should have more skills to choose from than Summoners, seeing as they're lone wolves. Also, consider limiting certain skills to certain classes.
  • Sounds good, although I'll have to sort who can use what.

• Actually yeah, I don't see the problem, so long as we don't make about 100000 skills for all sorts of different things. Upon reflection I can see the benefit of driving a tank to crash into King Frost. I do think this shouldn't be a primary concern, though.
  • Aww, I just listed exactly 100000 skills :<

  • Actually, this was just a way for characters to specialize in a specific non-combat roll partial to their character or the character's background without using an ability (although that's still possible). Now that I think about, I have a (simple) idea I wanna throw at you guys:

  • Every character has a focus, the focus being a stat. When rolling for a non-combat, they get a bonus (say, +3 or +5). And that's about it. It could represent anything about the character, from a former job to to a hobby to whatever.

  • Another idea is that certain checks can only be done "trained", meaning you need to have the specific stat as a focus, but you don't (or you do) get the bonus above. Funny idea.

  • BTW, driving a tank through King Frost? An Int check to figure out how to drive the tank, a Dex check to drive it well enough to try get a good momentum and a Vitality contest (Vitality vs. Vitality) to run him over.

• I'd go with percentage rounded down over a straight number. This way, a Glass Cannon won't get totally obliterated in a turn while a Mighty Glacier stoutly goes Deathbound for 5 turns.
  • Sounds good. I'm guessing people who play this game are going to have a calculator on hand or are just alright in math, anyway (this is SMT we're talking about).

• Pretty straight forward. Say Garu takes a minimum of 4 Intellegence, while Magaru takes 7, Garula more, etc. As far as anything definitive, I'd need to do some research.
  • Sounds good.

• Again, not too bad. Crib from the games, toss in a bit of spice, etc. I believe there are listing of each game's equipment and what they can do/hit rate/etc. Of course, certain classes should have better/worse proficiencies in certain weapons than others.
  • I was actually thinking about dividing the weapons into grades after seeing a Persona 3 FAQ at Game FA Qs (the standard A, B, C and maybe D) for all those things. I'm debating whether or not the weapons should be general (light melee, heavy ranged, average caster, etc.) or specific (sword, pistol, beating stick, etc.). Not sure about the class thing. It's usually just been stats governing the games.

• Uh. What do you consider tools?
  • COM Ps, Evokers, GUM Ps, Tubes, Cards, etc.

• Steal bicycles! WITH JACK FROST FUCK YEAH
  • This would seem to depend on if the world we're creating has two separate worlds (Earth/Makai) or is a fusion, or some sort of invasion, etc. Demons having yen/U.S. Dollars dropping everywhere is much easier explained if the worlds aren't separate imo. On the other hand, demons dropping macca, the currency of choice of Makai, makes sense. Maybe the world's made some sort of deal with the demons like in SMTII, when Lucifuge prints the money everyone uses?

  • I was actually thinking about having two currency's, where one has full price on the proper world, while the other is half priced. It's video game logic, and I think quite a few people are going to consider it BS, but it's just there for a little added complexity and a game can just have one universal currency. There can be exceptions to that range from people (occult collectors and demons fascinated with Earthly culture) or entire worlds (a demonic apocalypse or a human dominated Makai)

• Those sound like instant death in an tabletop RPG, with the enemy being on their backs and temporarily helpless. (Least that's what I've read up.) This depends on what you want to do about a down status. Alternatively, you can just double attacks.
  • Sort of. From what I've read, the formula is basically when every enemy is downed, every character attacks every enemy with their weapons, dealing the average damage of all the weapons (W+X+Y, /Number of characters = Z damage). I'm also thinking about just letting the player's do the damage, or let the characters choose who can deal damage for them.

• Intelligence should determine MP, while Magic determines spell power and defense.
  • I'm okay with switching the two, since I just wanted to split the magic stat. Spell defense, though?

• The Critical Hit bar is a little too high, I'd say it a 11 or 12 to crit and not a 10, 11 or 12. It's a little more special. :3
  • I was actually trying to make better use of the Luck stat to make it somewhat more useful, but yeah, alright.

• I think you should add Paralyze as a status condition. Not 100% immobility, more like 25%.
  • Got'cha. I think I might add the elemental effects from previous games as a variants.

• Also, Gun damage should be deprived from Speed.
  • I was actually a little worried about the balance on this one since it kinda leave Strength only good for melee and since Digital Devil Saga and Strange Journey use it. But hey, I'll try to manage something else.

• Let's not forget the magical element stones like Bufula Stone, Agilao, etc. Those should deprive from the Magic Stat if they don't have fixed damage. Maybe add a nice feat for them too. It's a good way to get Summoners magic capabilities without being brokenish.
  • I actually thought about this one, but I really love the idea of an ability that makes the damaging items stronger. Thank you so much!

• Speaking of which, are Persona Users basically magicians? It seems that way. However, I've never played Persona, so I'm not sure how to quite balance them.
  • Persona Users definitely feel like that, but what happens is that their persona actually enhance (maybe even penalize) their stats and gives the user elemental reactions. That's why I wanted to adapt the Wild Card class so they can use multiple, if evolving only by rank, personae.

  • I'm also thinking about making the Magician character just a generic skill using class like "Hero" or "Devil Hunter" for those who want to just use physical skills without being called mages (and maybe no skills at all). Should be a more buildable class, but I'd have to work on it much latter.

edited 3rd Dec '10 9:56:36 AM by Otogi

Oh, that's an Ascended? Hurr durr. I just beat SJ too. :P In that case, Ascended should definitely be prestige.

Speaking of which, lemme throw down some other ideas I've had on classes.

-I'd say bring up the stat points from 24 to 30. It's a nice roundy number, and after all, P Cs are exceptional people. :o

-From what we're discussing, the basic gist of the classes as to how I think they should be is this. Tell me what you think (note that the +1 for things is meant to compare to the rest of the classes) :

• Summoners
  • Demon Controller: Average/rounded stats overall, summon 2 Demons
  • Devil Summoner: +2 Physical(ish) feats/etc (from the vids/bits I've read, the DS is primarily physical and comboes with a sword), summon 1 Demon (This also puts that Strength stat to better use :D )

• Enhancers
  • Persona User: -1 stats overall, use 1 Persona for stat enhancements (these would vary according to Persona, I'm guessing)
  • Avatar Turner: Average/rounded stats overall, +2 overall when in demon/whatevertheycallitinDDS form (is there a time limit for this? If not, there probably should be for the sake of balance)

• Other classes:
  • Hito-Shura/Demi-fiend: I suppose we can make this a starter if you'd like. How about +1 to overall stats or the like?
  • Alignment Hero: Thought of this when I was reading. I'd say average stats, but strong skills. However, the PC would be locked into alignment or else lose their class (sorta like Paladins). Got this from the companions of the main character in SMT I/SMT II, none of which use demons.
  • Wild Card (?): This does sound like a super Persona User, but now that I think about it, I can see how multi Personas would be good for balance purposes. Depends on the math we use.

SO, what this would mean is that Devil Controllers are the “base” Summoner class while Alignment Heres are the “base” Enhancer class; Avatar Turners are stronger but for limited times; Demi-Fiend is more powerful than the others in “normal mode”; Persona Users are weaker overall but get dat Persona to aid them; Devil Summoners get all the supercool sword moves...and yeah.

• Prestige Classes...I'd say that to obtain one, there should be a level prerequisite of like 10. It would give them improved skills, stats, etc. Far as these go, can't say I'm sure myself. /gently sets aside

• Glad you mentioned bosses. A template would be great. I'd say we leave some premade, though. ;o

• I'm not sold on the focus, but I do like it better than the "trained" part.

• Let's make sure these percentages are nice and user friendly. Swear I'm not saying this because I suck at math. D: Like, 10%, 20%, 25%, easy ones. :)

• Woo Magic woo

• Oh, and the weapon/class/proficency thing. Well, it seems to me that certain classes (again, the Devil Summoner) would have better proficency with a sword than others. If not, we can always just make proficencies abilities/feats/skills/etc. How else will I burn heretics with a flamethrower as a Demon Controller?

• I'm totally down with the tools. D Cs need arm terminals, Devil Summoners need scrolls, Persona Users need Evokers, etc.

• I figure Int = MP and negotiation/certain skill bonuses, while Magic would be both attack and defense. I think it makes sense that a demon used to the flow and feel of magic could better defend against it than one who isn't. We can always throw down Resist/Null/Drain when need be.

• Let's just set the currency aside til we get the character mechanics down. Lol

• Hmm. Luck is still great for avoiding status ailments and critical hit bonuses. I just don't think ¼ of the possible dice rolls should be critical. :/

• Ability that makes magical items stronger? Good good. Call it Alchemist or something cheesy. :D

• Hmmm, but logically Strength has no bearing on a gun other than how well you can aim/pick up large guns. Speed, however, uses reflexes and, you know, stuff. :/ Besides, Strength means you can punch out boulders! Everyone likes punching out boulders.

edited 3rd Dec '10 11:34:45 AM by Neccy60

http://www.last.fm/user/BlueGhost60

• I'd say bring up the stat points from 24 to 30. It's a nice roundy number, and after all, P Cs are exceptional people. :o
  • I'm pretty with cool with that. It also makes balancing demons for summons much easier.

• Demon Controller: Average/rounded stats overall, summon 2 Demons
  • This idea is brilliant. Whoever came up with it must be insanely talented and brilliant, not to mention good looking :D

• Devil Summoner: +2 Physical(ish) feats/etc (from the vids/bits I've read, the DS is primarily physical and comboes with a sword), summon 1 Demon (This also puts that Strength stat to better use :D )
  • I'm a little less partial to this one. Don't get me wrong, the idea of Devil Summoners being more combat oriented than Demon Controllers is good, but I'm not sure it's Physical abilities since the protagonists of the original Devil Summoner and Soul Hackers used guns (gun computers, really, but hey). I also want to implement to loyalty system in all games without having them be the drag people say they are, so I was thinking that demons the advance at 2 XP per rank rather than 3 (or that normally demons increase rank by 4 and DS' increase by 3, if 2 is to low). So how's a free combat-oriented ability + the advance ranking thing sound?

• Persona User: -1 stats overall, use 1 Persona for stat enhancements (these would vary according to Persona, I'm guessing)
  • Ah, changing stats for different player characters. Never really was a fan of those, but let's see. Well, the Persona user's make sense, since I guess they were always weaker than everyone else in the franchise. And other than that, all according to plan.

• Avatar Turner: Average/rounded stats overall, +2 overall when in demon/whatevertheycallitinDDS form (is there a time limit for this? If not, there probably should be for the sake of balance)
  • Actually, I never really figured out what happens when you become half-demon in that game. I always figured you gained a natural attack, natural defense, the use of skills, elemental reactions, being unable to use equipment and that's it. It could be balanced out by the lack of equipment, but I'm not entirely sure. As soon as I figure out the entire deal, I'll try and make a balance.

• Hito-Shura/Demi-fiend: I suppose we can make this a starter if you'd like. How about +1 to overall stats or the like?
  • Not entirely sure. I was actually thinking that their Magatama would take over that role, since it did give the original that ability. Still, it could work.

• Alignment Hero: Thought of this when I was reading. I'd say average stats, but strong skills. However, the PC would be locked into alignment or else lose their class (sorta like Paladins). Got this from the companions of the main character in SMT I/SMT II, none of which use demons.
  • I'm still rather iffy on alignment for a few reasons, mainly because the Heroine and Hiroko never seem to loose anything for not being on the neutral path and are always content to go with you no matter what (same with the companions of SMT: If..., who I'm not even sure have alignments). l I like giving them skills, and maybe bonuses and unlocked skills for being of an alignment, but not so much the loss thing. If we still are going with the alignment thing, I'd kind of like the ability to switch to different kinds of heroes, rather than just loosing them (as for now, players are stuck with one class).

• Wild Card (?): This does sound like a super Persona User, but now that I think about it, I can see how multi Personas would be good for balance purposes. Depends on the math we use
  • That would require some planning. I wonder how we can go about this.

• Prestige Classes...I'd say that to obtain one, there should be a level prerequisite of like 10. It would give them improved skills, stats, etc. Far as these go, can't say I'm sure myself. /gently sets aside
  • Like a specialization in Dragon Age ? Or rather a normal prestige class in D&D?

• Glad you mentioned bosses. A template would be great. I'd say we leave some premade, though. ;o
  • No way, dude, Satan and Vishnu as random encounters!

• I'm not sold on the focus, but I do like it better than the "trained" part.
  • Skills (or something we have to rename) can work, and I think I'll keep that in mind.

• Let's make sure these percentages are nice and user friendly. Swear I'm not saying this because I suck at math. D: Like, 10%, 20%, 25%, easy ones. :)
  • I'd say your motives are suspicious at best, sir, but frankly that's a pretty excellent idea for just plain 'ol pencil math (though I was thinking about 2xSkill Tier as well)

• Woo Magic woo
  • DO THE WAVE!!!1!

• Oh, and the weapon/class/proficency thing. Well, it seems to me that certain classes (again, the Devil Summoner) would have better proficency with a sword than others. If not, we can always just make proficencies abilities/feats/skills/etc. How else will I burn heretics with a flamethrower as a Demon Controller?
  • That's actually why I sorta want to go with the general weapons category. I was thinking that classes only gain 2 proficiencies, 1 melee and 1 ranged. The range is extremely large, though, so that when you pick Heavy Special Weapon, you can pick flamethrowers, grenade launchers, rocket launchers, etc. There would, of course, be abilities that would allow someone to add to that. But I wonder if there should be a technical skill instead...

• I'm totally down with the tools. D Cs need arm terminals, Devil Summoners need scrolls, Persona Users need Evokers, etc.
  • Sweet, but I always thought Devil Summoners used containers. It sparked the idea of a hobo Devil Summoner using old, enchanted Coke bottles as their device.

• I figure Int = MP and negotiation/certain skill bonuses, while Magic would be both attack and defense. I think it makes sense that a demon used to the flow and feel of magic could better defend against it than one who isn't. We can always throw down Resist/Null/Drain when need be.
  • Sounds good, but I'm not totally sure about Intelligence effecting skills, unless Negotiation is a skill.

• Let's just set the currency aside til we get the character mechanics down. Lol
  • Done and done. And done.

• Hmm. Luck is still great for avoiding status ailments and critical hit bonuses. I just don't think ¼ of the possible dice rolls should be critical. :/
  • Sounds good. I've been meaning to add the Luck bonus thing, but this is before I decided on a deffinite roll. I have some other ideas on defense, but I'll think about others later on.

• Ability that makes magical items stronger? Good good. Call it Alchemist or something cheesy. :D
  • Like Grenadier? Or Item Mystic?

• Hmmm, but logically Strength has no bearing on a gun other than how well you can aim/pick up large guns. Speed, however, uses reflexes and, you know, stuff. :/ Besides, Strength means you can punch out boulders! Everyone likes punching out boulders.
  • That's true. I'm still not sure how to make it useful to those who don't use strength. Then again, same for magic.

Anyway, here's a list of "skills" from the Final Fantasy d6 RPG (seriously, any Final Fantasy fans should give it a read!)

• Athletics - Climbing, jumping, tumbling, balance, taking falls; you know, the general stuff.
• Acting - The lying skill, essentially, but it also helps with smooth-talk and improv
• Awareness - Taste, touch, smell, hearing, sight and kinetic field - if it applies to these, it pays here.
• Disguise - Taking on a new appearance. Nothing to fancy. Maybe it applies to objects and scenery.
• Escape - Getting out of a bindings, escaping from a cage, perhaps running from battle and getting away from your in-laws.
• Healing - The doctor skill. That's it. May be a formula to heal, enhance healing items or it's just there for medical fluff.
• Inquiry - The detective skill. Try to find some obscure knowledge, hidden people or an underground base.
• Language - Get a free one, but for every X ranks you you gain a free language. For languages the PC doesn't know, roll a skill check.
• Lore - The knowledge skill. The F Fd 6 RPG has specific fields such as General, History, Monsters, Espers (the summons) and Relics, but if we take this, I'm sure we can make an adaption.
• Negotiation - Hey, this guy! Posted some rules up above, but it would be a pretty general "hit this number" to succeed for other things.
• Perform - Singing, dancing, playing the guitar and giving speeches.
• Riding - Riding horses and such. Maybe kids can ride large dogs and such.
• Stealth - Hiding, sneaking, sleight of hand. Pretty much a 4e kinda thing.
• Survival - Finding water, foraging food and avoiding natural traps. Can apply in the wilderness, or (since this is SMT) the city (usually the Slum or the Really Bad Slums).
• Swimming - Floating, breath holding, front stroke, back stroke and doggy paddling.
• Synthesis - The craft skill that F Fd 6 has a pretty banging set of rules for. I've gotta admit, I was actually thinking about making this a prestige class (and maybe I still can). Anyway, the specializations the F Fd 6 games gives are Alchemical, Armorsmithing, Cooking (like special foods and stuff), Machines, Tailoring, Tinkering (little gadgets and such) and Weaponsmiting.
• Systems - Working with the mechanical and electronic.
• Thievery - Lock pickin', pick-pocketin', card cheaten' and trap settin'
• Trade - A skill I always liked in RP Gs, but I'm not sure it can fit. Essentially locating equipment, merchants and stores, while also applying to haggling and appraisal.
• Vehicles - Driving and repairing vehicles

Something I just thought up: There should be a sort of neutral equivalent to Half-Demons and Ascended, like the old man in SMT and Gore in Strange Journey. Any ideas for a name?

BTW, do you mind if I post this stuff on Giants in the Playground (if only my original work)?

EDIT: On second thought, I'll just post the original work and put a link toward over here.

edited 4th Dec '10 2:31:19 PM by Otogi

mew

• So how about this: We divide the Dev Sumoners into two branches: one with physical focus, and another one with gun focus? And if we need balance in the end, we can have P Cs take a penalty in whatever they’re not focusing on (So a Physical focused DS would take a penalty in using Guns and vice versa).

• Yeah, again, I’m not too familiar with Persona. Does each Arcana give different bonuses and penalties?

• Ahhh, well, that is rather confusing. Well, I think giving them average stats in normal form and the lack to summon demons nicely balances out their limited time in superpowered demon form, since when they’re transformed they likely are more powerful than the rest of the classes. Also, make them spend a turn to transform, wait a turn to transform…something like that. It sounds like they’d be a Mighty Glacier type.

• Hito-Shura/Demi-fiend – Yeah, I’d say let their Magatama do that lol. I like.

• Oh noes, we can’t let go of Alignment. Alignment is a massive part of SMT. Too much of one to discard or relegate to the background. I WILL FIGHT YOU. On the other hand, I definitely agree we should be harder on Neutrals.

And don’t forget, even though the Heroine follows the Hero no matter what, the canon endings are typically Neutral, so by implication, the Heroine/etc is Neutral.

Well, back on the Hero class….from what I’ve seen, Law heroes tend to get Wind/Electric/Recover/Expel skills, Neutral get Phys/Gun/lots of Resistances, and Chaos heroes tend to get Fire/Gun/Charm/Curse skills. So question: Do you think Heroes should have skills befitting their Alignment and if they switch to another Alignment gain an appropriate skill set, or what exactly?

• Seems we should work on the Persona mechanics before we get into Wild Card. :3

• How do specializations work in Dragon Age? I’m poor and so can’t afford to play it. ;-; I was thinking along the lines of Dn D, stat boost, extra skills, maybe extra summon slots or extended transform time for Avatars, etc.

• I’d love to encounter Jashin Cthulu at level 1. In fact, I’m making a schoolgirl character for that very purpose.

• Can we call Skills Skittles? Or is that not dark/grim/frostbitten enough for SMT? :O

• 2x Skill tier. Hmm, explain plz.

• So people with a skill in Heavy Weapons would be able to fire heavy weaponry without penalty, or with a bonus?

• Wait, Devil Summoners use containers? So basically, they can throw Poke Balls. OH SHI-

But I like this idea, let’s keep it. Should we implent Demonicas at any point, btw? They seem to be powerful equipment.

• Yup, make Negotiation a skill. I think Demon Controllers in particular should automatically have it as a bonus skill at Level 1, for very obvious reasons.

Also, some Skills seem to necessitate Intelligence, like hacking, alchemy, etc, just as Strength would be needed for hurling tanks.

• Ailment Saving Throws? Luck would help.

• I like just Mystic. :3 Grenadier sounds like you’re doing massive Gun damage.

• Well, it’s not like everyone will want to use both Strength and Magic equally. They have demons to do whatever their P Cs cant.

• Hmm. Most Skills sound fine, but I think that Acting (we have Negotiation, which involves Acting anyway), Escape (there’s Awareness for that), maybe Language (uh, what languages? Are we in America/Tokyo/traveling theworld/etc? AHHHHHH), Lore (This may just be a personal preference, but I just don’t like the idea of rolling, then magically remembering something like a Deus ex Machina…unless you have a better idea of implementing it), and Riding can go away.

What do you think? BTW, I really like the Synthesis skills since it means I get unlimited Megido Stones. :D

• Neutral equivalent to Ascended? Let’s call it Meta. I think Strange Journey had nice names for the Ascended/Half-Demon classes (Meta = Neutral, Awake = Chaos, Judge = Law). If you want a more SMTI/II feel we can just call the Neutral one Sage, seeing as the old guy is some sort of Taoist.

I certainly don’t mind if you post anything from either of us on GITP, so long as you post it here too so I’m not left in the dark (;-;). The more contributions and suggestions, the better.

edited 5th Dec '10 10:46:05 AM by Neccy60

http://www.last.fm/user/BlueGhost60

• So how about this: We divide the Dev Sumoners into two branches: one with physical focus, and another one with gun focus? And if we need balance in the end, we can have P Cs take a penalty in whatever they’re not focusing on (So a Physical focused DS would take a penalty in using Guns and vice versa).
  • Interesting idea, but why not an extra ability from a list at 1st level, like a fighter bonus feat list? That way, the characters can define themselves without much of a problem balancing penalties. Probably a good time to mention that all 4 Devil Summoners games had the main character doing rather well with BOTH a sword and gun (Raidou was described as the best gun in the...East, and look at how you remembered him!)

• Yeah, again, I’m not too familiar with Persona. Does each Arcana give different bonuses and penalties?
  • From what I've seen? No, but it is doable and I am making an advanced/prestige class just for specializing in an arcana. If you wanna know more about Persona, though, check out a Let's Play. If you're not to invested in the whole "dating sim thing", only check out 1, 2 or Giant Bomb's Endurance Run (it makes them pretty awesome =D)

• Ahhh, well, that is rather confusing. Well, I think giving them average stats in normal form and the lack to summon demons nicely balances out their limited time in superpowered demon form, since when they’re transformed they likely are more powerful than the rest of the classes. Also, make them spend a turn to transform, wait a turn to transform…something like that. It sounds like they’d be a Mighty Glacier type.
  • Could work. The game already makes you take a turn to transform. Not sure about a time limit, though. I'm also really trying to avoid the Mighty Glacier or Glass Cannon thing between different classes, especially since they characters in DDS fit into these themselves (check out their pages if you want to know about them!).

• Hito-Shura/Demi-fiend – Yeah, I’d say let their Magatama do that lol. I like.
  • Sweet, bro!

• Oh noes, we can’t let go of Alignment. Alignment is a massive part of SMT. Too much of one to discard or relegate to the background. I WILL FIGHT YOU. On the other hand, I definitely agree we should be harder on Neutrals.
  • It's deffinitely important. All I have right now is that it effects Negotiations and Summoning costs (which are paid with MP). I can stand bigger ideas, just not becoming entirely gimped big. I'm not sure Neutral chracters should just get the shaft, though. It works for summoners since they aren't bared from any demons and negotiating isn't harder. I'm not sure how it works for Neutral, plain heroes.

• And don’t forget, even though the Heroine follows the Hero no matter what, the canon endings are typically Neutral, so by implication, the Heroine/etc is Neutral.
  • True, but doesn't the very existance and ability to get into those endings mean something? And what about Hiroko? Besides the info from SMT: Nocturne, it's pretty much amgibious ( doesn't YHVH still give Aleph the punishment for the ultimate sin, regardless of path traveled?)

• Well, back on the Hero class….from what I’ve seen, Law heroes tend to get Wind/Electric/Recover/Expel skills, Neutral get Phys/Gun/lots of Resistances, and Chaos heroes tend to get Fire/Gun/Charm/Curse skills. So question: Do you think Heroes should have skills befitting their Alignment and if they switch to another Alignment gain an appropriate skill set, or what exactly?
  • I dunno. I'm kinda okay with keeping the skills after switching, but if the alignment switch is considered big enough, why not?

• Seems we should work on the Persona mechanics before we get into Wild Card. :3
  • Totally. Any idea of where to start? Someone has already suggested an idea back at the GITP forum.

• How do specializations work in Dragon Age? I’m poor and so can’t afford to play it. ;-; I was thinking along the lines of Dn D, stat boost, extra skills, maybe extra summon slots or extended transform time for Avatars, etc.
  • When you enter in a specialization (without any prerequitsites besides a class), you gain bonuses and changes right from the get-go and are pretty the same class barring getting new abilities every so often. It's pretty simple, everything given.

• I’d love to encounter Jashin Cthulu at level 1. In fact, I’m making a schoolgirl character for that very purpose.
  • Actually, that's the purpose of the Devil Child; you can keep a permanent, enhancable ally with you. Forever. 0_o But sweet, dude!

• Can we call Skills Skittles? Or is that not dark/grim/frostbitten enough for SMT? :O
  • Nah, dude, that's full on Warhammer 40K

• 2x Skill tier. Hmm, explain plz.
  • Well, the percentage is basically the skill tier (say 2 for Mabufu) times 2 (4%, in this case). May have to increase this to 3 (so that it's from 3% to a max of 27%), more in line with the range with the game's percentage range. But that's all theory.

• So people with a skill in Heavy Weapons would be able to fire heavy weaponry without penalty, or with a bonus?
  • Without a penalty

• Wait, Devil Summoners use containers? So basically, they can throw Poke Balls. OH SHI-
  • That would be embarrasing for a crosover :P

• But I like this idea, let’s keep it. Should we implent Demonicas at any point, btw? They seem to be powerful equipment.
  • Like, zoinks, that's a whole lotta thing! Right now, I can think about 2or 3 ways to do them.
    • Make them a simple tool, no armor or other bonuses.
    • Have them take up multiple slots, obviously armor and perhaps accesory.
    • Make it an advanced class, specializing in firepower, tactical advantages and the use of sub-apps. Maybe even make it a full class.

• Yup, make Negotiation a skill. I think Demon Controllers in particular should automatically have it as a bonus skill at Level 1, for very obvious reasons. Also, some Skills seem to necessitate Intelligence, like hacking, alchemy, etc, just as Strength would be needed for hurling tanks.
  • Sounds good, and that always comes up one way or another. Just make the stat a modifier for the skill.

• Ailment Saving Throws? Luck would help.
  • From what I've seen of other games (including Strange Journey), it's Ailment Defenses, like 4e, a static number enhanced by Luck.

• I like just Mystic. :3 Grenadier sounds like you’re doing massive Gun damage.
  • I dunno, still think it needs work. Relic User?

• Hmm. Most Skills sound fine, but I think that Acting (we have Negotiation, which involves Acting anyway), Escape (there’s Awareness for that), maybe Language (uh, what languages? Are we in America/Tokyo/traveling theworld/etc? AHHHHHH), Lore (This may just be a personal preference, but I just don’t like the idea of rolling, then magically remembering something like a Deus Ex Machina…unless you have a better idea of implementing it), and Riding can go away.
  • Sounds alright, and on the way we can make new skills like Demonology for understanding demons!

• What do you think? BTW, I really like the Synthesis skills since it means I get unlimited Megido Stones. :D
  • Lawlz, but remember, don't fail, or you're out a huge amount of cash/macca!

• Neutral equivalent to Ascended? Let’s call it Meta. I think Strange Journey had nice names for the Ascended/Half-Demon classes (Meta = Neutral, Awake = Chaos, Judge = Law). If you want a more SMTI/II feel we can just call the Neutral one Sage, seeing as the old guy is some sort of Taoist.
  • Hmm. I dunno, that's two extremes for names. Doesn't Strange Journey use Ubergestalt? I dunno, I don't have any better ideas. Maybe Enlightened?

Also, here's the forum page! [1]

By the way, new idea. What if, instead of summoners gaining new turns because of their demons, everyone gains only 1 turn, including demons controlled by summoners. That way

• Summons vs. Enhancers becomes Variety vs. Power
• Demons become more of a threat and are worth more to recruit
• Cuts down on battle time
• Makes a Demon class more viable

edited 5th Dec '10 5:19:53 PM by Otogi

Jesus Christ I love this idea.

Fee fi fo fum. I smell Kraft Dinner.

Care to playtest when it gets further?