The Wheel of Time

I finally finished The Shadow Rising. It's more-or-less a good book, but the Conflict Ball elements were definitely the worst part. Rand's plot was the strongest of the three in part because there was little pointless infighting. It still feels like a step down compared to its predecessors, going much longer to three climaxes that all feel pretty small. The stakes for the book are relatively low, since the plot point of Asmodean trying to steal the most powerful Sa'angreal isn't introduced until the penultimate chapter and thus feels pretty abrupt. I think I'll continue the series eventually, but for now I'm going to take a break.

TBH while there are some really good bits to be found in the following books it's gonna feel like more and more of a slog through the mire up until the end with the padding and rampant mountain lion plot threads.

I feel it doesn't get really bad until like book 7, I think? Then each book is like wading through tar until the nadir that is Crossroads of Midnight.

I really enjoy that even the biggest fans of this series say that like 5 of the books are bad. It's very Gundam in that way.

I appreciate the fanbase's candor.

Also, it is weirdly amusing that Lanfear apparently spent a whole day slapping somebody For the Evulz.

Edited by MisterTambourineMan on May 11th 2021 at 2:17:47 AM

She's got energy, there's no denying that.

When he's focused and on his game, Jordan is a really good writer, but he desperately needed an editor to rein him in. As I understand it, his wife was his editor, and she certainly did not rein him in. He admitted himself that some of the later books are unfocused and overwritten. If you were doing shots every time someone sniffed or adjusted their skirts past book five, you'd need a new liver.

I think the range of books 8-10 are what is officially recognised as "The Slog" though some fans will lump book 7 in as well, and all fans will agree that book 10 is just the worst.

I read the books as they came out, and it got to the point where I was forgetting who half the secondary characters were between books.

Yeah, I did all my catching up in that period between 11 and 12, more or less, so it wasn't so bad when I could get through one book a week and have the next waiting for me on the weekend (I was borrowing them from a fellow church-goer at the time) - waiting years for the next one during the slog must have been awful.

Crossroads of Twilight was published while I was reading the books for the first time. I was fully expecting to experience a critical backlash, because there was no way it could possibly be as bad as everyone said. Nope, it really is that bad. You can literally read the first part of the prologue and then skip to the last two chapters and not miss anything. I never had any trouble keeping track of who was who, largely because I spent a significant chunk of time reading nothing else so it all stuck in my mind. I was also somewhat involved with the fandom, which helped. Things pick up significantly in Knife of Dreams, and Sanderson's books are quite brisk and fast-paced. There is a temptation to say it's because Sanderson is the better writer, but he himself has always insisted that the books with his name on them are 90% Jordan.

I remember quite liking The Shadow Rising, but in retrospect it's definitely the source of the Franchise Original Sin. It's the first book with plot threads that never intersect or come together, which leads to the ridiculous sprawl of the future books. It's a shame that Asmodean dies next book; I would have liked if he'd lasted longer and at least got to try for redemption.

Even if it was 90% Jordan, Sanderson still got to act a little bit like a second editor, which I'm sure helped.

I did not like Mat under Sanderson though. Or how some long-standing plot threads just got kind of unceremoniously cut. For instance, with as long as the Prophet had been hovering around, I really thought more ought to have been done with him.

Edited by Robbery on May 14th 2021 at 10:30:13 AM

Yup, him and Padan Fain kinda went out like wet farts. And I think even Sanderson agrees that his Mat kinda sucked. His Rand was absolutely on point, though.

I liked Sanderson Mat much more than Jordans. Problem is that there is a clear difference between Sandersons and Jordans Mat, which is not what Sanderson had been going for.

@ Golden Kaos: I am impressed you could read one of these books in a week.

Yeah, I've heard where some people have said they don't notice any difference, which I really don't understand. Whether you prefer Sanderson's Mat or Jordan's Mat, there is a clear difference between them.

I was a teenager with nothing else to do and my ADHD at that time tended to hyperfocus on reading, it works against my reading these days alas.

God help me, I'm finally starting this series. 15 books or something? Roommate has always raved about it and unlike ASOFIA this ended, even if posthumously.

Godspeed.

I would suggest if possible stay away from any online fandoms until you finish the books.

Just to avoid any biasing of how you feel about the characters.

15 books, one of which is a prequel. Good luck.

Yeah, I have to second that. It's best to come up with your opinions in a vacuum.

Have finally started reading Fires of Heaven. This is the 2nd book in a row where the first 100 pages could be removed without effecting the narrative at all.

I am kinda nervous/curious how they're going to handle Balthamel in the show.

In the era of trans identity being a more prominent thing in culture, the whole concept of his character in the novels is a bit, I dunno, dicey?

The idea that a person's mind is a plaything of their body. That if a man ends up in a woman's body, eventually their mind will just adapt and they'll become a woman in totality.

Edited by GNinja on Sep 2nd 2021 at 11:50:51 AM

I can easily see that whole business being dropped from the TV series. It came pretty late in the series, and doesn't really figure a ton into the main action.