World Of Warcraft

The Dazar'Alor attack makes much more sense if the Alliance is assuming the Zandalari have already joined the Horde (and, from the perspective of an Alliance character, it seems the case; the Alliance war campaign and world quests portray the Zandalari as fully pledged with the Horde), and it's actually a preemptive attack destined to destroy the Zandalari fleet before the Horde can put it to use (and they seem much more successful with that objective, according to the dialogue).

I don't know why the dialogue made it like the Alliance's objective is to prevent the Zandalari from joining the Horde when it makes no sense.

Edited by morenohijazo on Jan 12th 2019 at 6:24:58 PM

exactly. if they had came in thinking they were already allies due to faulty intelligence, thats one thing.

But their dialogue implies at least the higher ups know that isnt the case but approve this insane plan on the basis of "stop them from joining the horde via an unprovoked attack"

Well it's more "Stop them from joining the Horde by defeating them in a pre-emptive attack". Their goal is to have Rastakhan surrender, and if he does, it insures the Horde and Zandalari do not ally.

which, really, based on what even the alliance should know of Rastakahn, implies a severe misunderstanding of the zandalari.

since when in all the times the alliance and horde have fought the zandalari have they ever been known to surrender?

Edited by Midgetsnowman on Jan 13th 2019 at 10:11:06 AM

Since when in the history of Warcraft have anyone surrendered?

Ashvane surrendered after Jaina summoned the Kul Tiran fleet.

Sure she got jailbroken later by the Horde, but the Siege of Boralus still ended in a surrender.

...actually come to think of it, that particular plot point has yet to be picked up on, even in the 8.1.5 datamined text..

To take a stab at the dark, I'd say Ashvane is part of Sylvanas's "exit strategy" should her reign over the Horde come under threat.

I remenber one user call ganaoso from suficien velocity and space battle that remimaging Waracraft and said it would be better if alience and horde behive more like cold war power than outright warfare: sabotage, special oeprative, etc.

In fact, WOW pretty much almost alike this.

I'm almost at the point where I think even a cold war state might actually be too intense for BfA to feel worthwhile.

More then ever, I feel like it's time for the Horde/Alliance conflict to come to a close. And that means ending the expansion in a state where it feels like the conflict will never again reach the level it currently exists at. And a cold war state makes it feel like a renewed conflict is inevitable down the road.

Well it's season 2 launch day, that means Draz'alor cinematic.

First one: Alliance intro

FOR GNOMREGAN!

My expectation is that we'll be getting a cinematic for both of the "endings", so one for after the Rastakhan fight and one for after the Jaina fight.

Edited by Falrinn on Jan 22nd 2019 at 10:55:39 AM

Good for you, Gelbin.

Try not to be so theatrical next time you have to press a button, will you?

Edited by Resileafs on Jan 22nd 2019 at 11:07:06 AM

Post-Rastakhan cinematic

Zandalari and Kul Tiran allied races are still not available, right? Because yesterday I did Raid Finder and there was one player that had the female zandalari model. It even read 'Zandalari Troll' when I hovered the mouse over the character. Maybe it was a toy, like the Coin of Many Faces? I didn't get to see any special buff.

We'll get them with the 8.1.5 patch per longstanding Word of God.

It's in 8.1.5.

Pending any last minute changes you will need to:

1. Complete the Zandalar Forever scenario

2. Complete the War Campaign up to just prior to the Battle of Dazar'alor quest (so no raiding is needed)

3. Earn exalted with the Zandalari Empire.

Edited by Falrinn on Jan 23rd 2019 at 6:13:29 AM

Moving the topic from lore to gameplay, the addons I've been using to streamline/improve my inventory and action bars haven't updated for 8.1 and it doesn't look like they will be any time soon. (Bagnon and Bartender, for those curious) Anyone got any alternatives?

I swapped to Adi Bags this addon after using Bagnon since Classic. It combines your inventory but also sorts them into categories.

Unlike Arc Inventory it comes with good enough presets to be used as is.

One of my friends raised an interesting question recently. Are the draenei polytheistic or monotheistic?

I guess it depends on whether they consider the Naaru to be deities.

You could argue that they (and all the Light-worshipping races) are pantheistic given the way the Light is portrayed.

What constitutes an actual "deity" in the Warcraft universe is one of those questions that's almost impossible to answer due to the complexity of the lore. We can go down the list of entities that are revered or worshiped, I suppose...

• The Naaru: While these are certainly extremely powerful, and the Draenei revere them, they don't seem to "worship" them so much as have a relationship of mutual respect. We know that the Naaru are not flawless or omnipotent, and can be destroyed. Certain Naaru seem to act like they're gods, though (*cough* X'era), and many mortals, like Turalyon, do hold them in extreme reverence.
• The Titans: Immortal beings that create and shape planets certainly sound like gods to me, but the lore gives them a very tangible reality and even a kind of life cycle. They are immensely powerful but don't seem to have any interest in worship.
• The Old Gods: Despite calling themselves gods, and certainly having godlike power, the Old Gods are viewed by the Titans as parasitic creatures, much like ticks on a host. We also know that they are merely servants of greater masters.
• The Void Lords: Mysterious beings of immense power that rule the Void and command the Old Gods, we know very little about them, and so they might as well qualify.
• The Loa: Revered by the troll civilizations, we've had the veil lifted on their origins over the past few expansions, and now we know that they are "ordinary" beings, for various definitions of the term, that gain power from worship and can be weakened, corrupted, and killed. The trolls themselves refer to them as "spirits" rather than gods, though that may be only a semantic difference. They are certainly on a lower tier than other beings on this list, though.
• Elune: Literally called a "goddess", with priests and temples and such, she is the closest we have to a straightforward deity in Warcraft lore, with vaguely defined powers and inscrutable motives.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 24th 2019 at 9:18:07 AM

I think the Draenei may be monotheistic. They seem to venerate the Light, not the Naaru. The Naaru could be the 'angels' to the Light's 'God', acting as messengers and enforcers of the Light's will.

While that makes sense, there is nothing in Warcraft lore to say what, exactly, the Light is. Is it an impersonal force, a discrete entity, or something else entirely?

Consider the six-axis diagram that spells out this universe's cosmology. We have Life (Nature), Light (Holy), and Creation (Arcane) on the top, with Death, Void, and Chaos on the bottom.

• The Titans embody Creation, but have no master or over-god that anyone has ever mentioned. While they represent Arcane in particular, they can draw from Light and Life as well.
• The Naaru are the angels of the Light, and seem to regard it as some sort of entity rather than a power of which they partake, but as I said above we have no reliable information about what, exactly, the Light is.
• Life is a force as well but, while there are many Keepers and Avatars of it, we've never seen anything to suggest that there is a powerful entity or entities specifically in charge.
• The Void Lords are the masters of, well, the Void, but as with the Light, we have not seen any information about whether they serve a specific being or an impersonal force.
• Death and Chaos similarly have no controlling beings that we are aware of, although something lurks in the Shadowlands and that may well be revealed soon if Sylvanas' arc is any indication.

All this is to say that I find it much more probable that these six forces are not deities but rather fundamental aspects of existence. The Draenei can of course worship such forces if they want, but calling it "monotheistic" seems inaccurate. There should be a more specific term.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 25th 2019 at 2:19:46 PM

The light seen to be non descrit christianity in a sense, it remind to the force in that sense: it haeve a sort of a "will" but not a inteligent in a way we can call a deity.

Does Fel fall under Chaos?

Because the Burning Legion opposes Light, Arcane and Void while Death seems to be Neutral (And if you count the Scourge as Death, then the BL also oppose death

The specific opposites on the chart are Life <-> Death, Order <-> Chaos, Light <-> Void. This doesn't mean that Chaos doesn't also fight against Nature, of course. Boiled down, you have the three creative forces opposing the three destructive forces.

To the extent that particular elements are associated with these broad concepts, Arcane opposes Fel, Holy opposes Shadow, and Nature opposes Undeath, although the latter is not really an element or attack type.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 26th 2019 at 12:49:15 PM