The Russians confirm that a Il-20 reconnaissance plane was shot down, with all crew dead. Promptly blaming the Israelis for purposefully using it as cover.

Edited by TerminusEst on Sep 18th 2018 at 1:54:27 AM

So does that count as an air-to-air kill via maneuvering for the Israelis or what?

Oh man, the Twitter feed is a trainwreck the likes of which You Tube hasn't seen in years.

Edited by AFP on Sep 18th 2018 at 3:38:45 AM

The IDF is using the "We don't comment on that." response.

x4 It’s looking like they’re having a bit of trouble getting that model out too, which is a clear indicator that the electronics and systems were the issue for the T-14. They’re rolling out a lot of “halfway” modernized versions that just have upgraded fire control or just upgraded armor.

Certainly because Thales isn't selling them the good stuff anymore and Russian electronics have always been shit.

On the Russian Mo D post.

So many Rubble deposits being made.

Just how the fuck does a fast mover like an F-16 use a giant turboprop turtle like the Russian plane as cover? Did they use their trademark air brakes like in Hot Shot's and hug the plane?

Must have been one hell of a Quick Time Event.

I am just impressed at the overall incompetence displayed.

Failing to shoot down any of the Israeli jets and managing to hit one of your own in the process.

How the fuck did the bozo working FCS not notice the RCS was fucking huge compared to the appreciably smaller F-16? ....

The following is an approximate simulation starring well-known figures.

<In Russian made Radar FCS>

Comrade Ivan: You see Abu Hajaar is easy. Israeli pig dog planes small, Russian planes big. When they come you will do fine. Now I got to drink and sing about how crappy my country really is.

<Russian, Drinking, Dancing, and Military Hijinx Intensifies>
<3 hours later>.
Abu Hajaar: Abu Abdullah, come quick! We have many dots on the screen!.
Abu Abdullah: Praise be to God! Good, you are on watch, victory is assured!
Abu Hajaar: There are so many, they are so confusing! Which one is the infidels?
Abu Abdullah: Remember with Infidel Comrade Ivan said.\\ Abu Hajarr:...Right, what he said. Something about drinking, small ones, no the big ones. THAT IS IT! The big ones are the greater evil!
<Missile Fires and Kills Russian plane>
<In FCS> Allah 'Akbar We did it. <idiotic dancing ensues>
<Door is kicked off hinges by a Crimson Comrade Ivan>
Comrade Ivan: Blyad'! Vy idioty! Eto byl tovarishch Smirnov! Segodnya vecherom on privez vodku na vecherinku.(Pardon the Google Translate)
(Fuck! You idiots! That Was Comrade Smirnov! He was bringing the Vodka to the party tonight.)
Abu Hajaar:Uh, oh Spaghetti O's. I think we made a mistake.
Abu Abdullah: AAAABUUUU HAAA-JAAAAAAAR!
Comrade Ivan: We will have to now make an obvious lie about what happened and it will be stupid. We are taking one of your goats as punishment.
Abu Hajaar: NOOOOOOO! They are the only ones who talk to me at night!
<Cue Looney Tunes Music>\\

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Sep 18th 2018 at 5:52:53 AM

Tel Aviv and Moscow are in contact over the shootdown.

So far, it seems that the latter is playing down the incident, but some blame is still placed on the Israeli Air Force.

It’ll be a cold day in hell before Israel takes any blame on this one. Of course, that doesn’t mean the Russians won’t try.

The incompetence required to accidentally down an aircraft almost 30km away from the intended target is pretty stunning.

Edited by archonspeaks on Sep 18th 2018 at 6:13:17 AM

Not only that but one that should stand out as significantly different to the FCS as an attacking F-16. That tells me someone designated it and told the system to attack it.

Which suggests either malicious intent from a supposed ally, or people who have quite literally zero idea what they're doing at the controls. Neither is a good look.

I'm going to go with gross incompetence on the Syrians' part.

The Russians don’t have a great track record in training people to use Russian anti-air systems to properly identify aircraft.

Air Force aims to move startups from pitch to contract award in 24 hours

Ugh, so much contacting FAIL in one article.

During the Cold War and the Iraq War the DOD got suckered by many scammers, snake oil salesmen and crappy companies that thought they had and ace only to find they drew and joker - but the taxpayers paid for it!

So I see the next Theranos or $300 screwdriver coming from these startup clowns.

JUST BECAUSE A COMPANY IS A STARTUP DOESN'T MEAN IT'S GOOD.

The "$600 hammer" is actually an interesting military procurement fable. With the way those budgets are drawn up, each item includes a certain amount of overhead for other items in the same purchase, including R&D for associated purchases, shipping costs, stuff like that. In the case of the infamous hammer, the hammer itself only cost $15, but when it was bundled into a purchase of aviation-related spare parts it went up to around $450, even though the hammer (and the purchase as a whole) remained their same prices.

Of course, that amount was probably over the top to begin with. But accounting is more concerned with making sure the money is spent how Congress says it needs to be spent than with spending it wisely.

Edited by archonspeaks on Sep 18th 2018 at 7:56:55 AM

Tokyo announced that JGSDF can potentially join the MFO in the Sinai after an assessment is made by reps from the Defense/Foreign Affairs offices under the Prime Minister's Office.

This was the first to be considered to be under non-UN control.

Very true. A company being a startup means they're eager to prove themselves. Whether they can actually deliver is another story entirely. Most startups can't deliver.

TBH, I'd greatly prefer if the gov't spent my tax money on companies that already have proven track records of reliability rather than gamble it on a startup.

You'd think the Russians would have made absolutely certain that the Syrians would at least be able to use Russian anti-air systems to properly identify Russian aircraft.

Edited by M84 on Sep 18th 2018 at 11:23:42 PM

And that's the problem. The Taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for God Help Us Inc. and it's failed prototype or shoddy business model.

True story - there was an "IED" detection kit sold by a company that built a device to detect drugs and explosives and the "Golf Ball Gopher" (a device to detect lost golfballs not a robot gopher^note A robot gopher would be cool tho..).

One problem with this startup - the device was fake.

Also Theranos and their cute CEO who will soon star in Orange Is the New Black II: Electric Bugaloo.

That article never said who was minding the store to make sure the USAF and the tax payers won't get f'd in the wallet.

Seriously, how did the Russians responsible for teaching the Syrians how to use the Anti-Air handle lessons? Did they just throw a bunch of (outdated) manuals, written in Russian, to the Syrians and spent the rest of their time stationed there in a vodka-induced stupor?

Considering this is how most of the actual Russian military spends its time, it doesn't speak well to the way the militaries they train behave.

There are two different kinds of IFF systems the Russians operate, and they don't always play well together. Depending on what system the Syrians were using they might not have been able to read the Russian aircraft.

Edited by archonspeaks on Sep 18th 2018 at 8:38:06 AM

I am having a hard time finding anything including Electronic Warfare to explain how the system targeted a friendly craft. IFF systems should have precluded such an event in general. That and someone should have been paying attention to what the system was highlighting before telling missile to go kill something.

As a former 'scope dope (14E) I can say that:

• Either the Russians gave a SAM system to a bunch of flaming morons

-or-

• The Russians don't want to admit that the IDF has been walking all over them for a few weeks and their Rocket-Surgeon allies.

When there is ECM or ECCM on the scope, there are procedures to deal with it. Even with a digital (and phased array) system, you're blind. Remember, reflected energy is what a radar is looking for. ECM is like blasting a stereo at someone trying to listen to a convo at a part.

Now there are ways to work around that.

Blindly firing at every blip is not it.

I think that the Syrians are rock stupid, given the civil war and that the loyalists got their positions by brownnosing Assad rather than ability.

The system is the older SA-5 and yes, inb4 someone points out how good the IDF is and that they pwn'd SA-5 batteries for decades.

But again, there are ways around ECM and ECCM.

Truth is that a crew of Elmer Fudds shot down the aircraft of their ally and the Russians are trying to save face because they are in too deep.

Taira: To make matters worse the Russian backed SA-5's were repaired and upgraded by the Russians directly a few years back.