The Walking Dead: The Game

I wouldn't leave AJ to die either, that's absurd and monstrous. Leave him with a settlement? Sure.

Kenny did the right thing when he tried to leave Clem with Wellington. If Clem refused to stay in Wellington, that was not the right thing, but a very human thing to do.

It'd require a uniquely inhuman mindset to abandon a helpless baby.

I'd argue that taking AJ with you when you had the chance to leave him at Wellington is selfish, though there are logical arguments against that as well (i.e. distrust on Wellington's willingness, capability to take care of the baby.)

Abandoning a baby to die in the snow, however? It's the sort of things that'd cause irreparable damage to your mental state. Pretty much anyone who found out will be heavily biased against trusting you, ever. Lee's convict status times a hundred.

Even putting aside sentimental and emotional factors, the "liabilities" (carrying, providing for, and keeping the baby from making too many noises etc. ) are well worth whatever gains you'd hypothetically get without the baby.

I do wonder if having a baby with you will be detrimental or not in interacting with other survivors, however.

edited 24th Jul '16 8:54:25 AM by pblades

It really depends on the group. Some would be much more inclined to help as soon as they see the child, while others would consider him an unnecessary strain on their resources. It really just depends on how much a given group has sacrificed compassion in favor of cold, calculating cynicism.

"Cold, calculating cynicism" is shit on morale.

Hard men making hard decisions is cool and all on a fictional media, but people aren't built to live like that.

"Cynical" decisions are made by removing the human factor. There's not a lot more humanizing than a baby. It's literally in-built in our brain.

That is why we need a Wellington-style community at the core of the game, guys

What Tobias said. Depends on the group.

Cold, calculating cynicism is entirely human. It's a product of fear and maintained by dehumanization and othering of people. A society ruled by fear is destined for failure but that has never stopped humanity from embracing it.

From the fires of anarchy, authoritarian regimes like Carver's tinpot kingdom or the shitshow that was Crawford inevitably rise up to try and bring order and stability to a terrified populace. A people ruled by fear will make all kinds of sacrifices, support all kinds of monstrous decisions, for the empty promise that those sacrifices will make them safe.

Fear is the most dangerous force on Earth.

No arguement there.

Still, I doubt the majority of the Human race could swandive our way right into the nadir of abandoning a child in need.

Abandoning an infant to die arguably isn't even a rational decision-especially for communities. To put it this way: if humanity is ever going to recover from this apocalypse, it will be because they managed to take care of babies-every other path is death. The Crawfords were never going to survive a generation. And, even if your goal is only personal survival, eventually you'll get old-and that's when the zombies will eat you. Unless, perhaps, you happen to have a younger companion who's willing to take care of you.

Children, aside from being cute and cuddly, are a very important resource.

edited 24th Jul '16 10:06:12 AM by Protagonist506

If you put fear into people, you can convince them to do anything. And indeed children tend to be the victims of crime and cruelty more because they can't defend themselves.

edited 24th Jul '16 2:20:50 PM by SilentColossus

Obviously abandoning AJ to die would be an almost irredeemably despicable thing to do (which is half of why I have so little sympathy for Jane - anything could have happened to him when she left him in that car). I could maybe see Telltale giving you that choice at some point if they feel like going especially grim, but I don't think the morality of that choice is even a debate.

As for leaving him with a larger group of survivors...you know what, I wouldn't do that either. Simply because in this world, you can't trust anybody you don't know. Plenty of communities seem nice when you meet them. Look at Terminus or Woodbury.

We don't know if Wellington was on the level - they probably were, to be honest - but even if they weren't secretly a band of brigands and cannibals, there's another factor to consider: there is no one in there who will be as devoted to him as you are now. When the food starts running out, when bandits show up, when the next walker herd comes a'knockin', there's no telling where their priorities are going to lie. It's a gamble, one you have no control over the outcome of.

That's why, as far as I'm concerned? When Season 3 starts and I get put in Clem's shoes again (yay!), AJ ain't leaving my sight. I'm certainly not going to just hand him off to a band of strangers and hope for the best. If they're willing to take him in, they can take me too or they can get lost.

Hell, that's why I never let Kenny leave Clem and AJ at Wellington. We don't know Wellington from Adam. We know the gate guard's nice, but what about the people inside? Even if the leaders are genuinely well-intentioned, who knows what kind of less savory elements might also exist behind those walls? It seemed to be a pretty sizable community - almost a town - and with civilization comes crime. In the Zombie Apocalypse, there's no such thing as paranoia, and I'd rather stay with the badass old dude that I know will protect me to his dying breath than roll the dice on a town full of complete strangers.

And another thing with communities like Wellington: large communities attract unwanted attention. Namely, bandits and psychopaths. Especially when the community is apparently known of far and wide, to the point where Christa and Clem tried to make a cross-country journey to reach them. How long's it going to be before Lord Humongous shows up at Wellington's gates? That's exactly what happened to Terminus. They were on the level with their offers of help to all and sundry, and a band of sadistic raiders showed up not long after. That's why I actually always felt safer on the road with a small-to-nonexistent group. Sure, you're got to watch out for the walkers, but at you have the benefit of an extremely low profile.

Living in small groups isn't really sustainable, though. Eventually, something is going to go wrong. A settlement has its own dangers, sure, but breaking a bone probably won't get you killed, like Luke. Food also becomes easier to access, particularly if you can grow it. Bandits are still a problem for small groups, as we see several times. Smaller groups are easier to steal from.

Settlements have their own problems that you mentioned, but such problems are easier to handle. For raiders, have a force that can drive them off. A herd can be diverted (Carver's mistake was cower inside Howe's when a herd arrived, rather than have people distract it) or even outright destroyed. It puts you on the map, and yes, it makes you a target. But being on the map also opens up trade with other settlements.

edited 26th Jul '16 2:47:17 PM by SilentColossus

Things go sideways in Terminus almost immediately upon arrival, so I don't think it's your best example here.

Of the other four settlements we've seen on the show, and the one upcoming: the Prison was working pretty well before the herd knocked down the fence (which was Lizzie's fault, not inevitable); Woodbury...yeah, that would have ended badly even if Michonne hadn't antagonized the Governor; Alexandria has suffered a few attacks but is holding up alright; Hilltop's leader is a jackass, and they're strapped for resources, but that's the fault of a powerful raiding force in the area and it's better to be in the colony than at the Saviours' mercy on the road; and the Kingdom looks like it's quite prosperous based on the trailer.

Also, from the comics (spoilers since the show will probably follow suit): Alexandria, the Hilltop, the Kingdom, the Saviors, and some place called Oceanside all have a trading relationship in addition to a defense alliance for the first four. Eugene is also in contact with person from a sixth settlement, though who knows if they're friendly.

Being the Walking Dead, it won't last. But still.

Clementine and Javier will encounter and maybe hoin the group Eugene is talking with. They're in Virginia again, and we're confirmed to see more comic elements.

edited 26th Jul '16 3:54:10 PM by SilentColossus

I just read today actually that arriving at Alexandria was Kirkman's original plan for the ending. So settlements post-Alexandria seem to be generally pretty stable in this world.

All the more reason to have one in the game, then. It would also give us different stakes in a conflict beyond "not dying."

I feel like there probably will be. It'll probably be fairly small, since a 13-14 year old is on their raiding party (something not even Carl can get away with), but it'll be there.

Raiding party?

Scavengers, away-team, whatever you want to call it. The people who go out on supply runs. Which we see her doing with whatsisname in the trailer.

Do we know that's what they were doing? Unless they've released more details about the circumstances surrounding that scene, they might have just been on the road.

Matter of fact, didn't Javier say something like "we must be getting close?" So they were probably traveling, not scavenging.

Really? Sounds more to me like they were searching for something, which could indicate scavenging.

I guess you could interpret it either way. I read it as them traveling to a destination.

Clem is fairly clean, and was able to properly treat the loss of a finger, so she's clearly not living nomadically. AJ isn't with her, so there's someone she can leave him with. She and her partner clearly have an objective outside of that community, likely something to do with investigating the walkers, and she has a weapon.

The only conclusion I can draw is that she's already part of a community in that scene, and she's trusted enough to be one of their scouts, despite her age.

Well, pretty much all of the Walking Dead characters remain relatively clean in appearance throughout the various seasons, injuries can be treated on the road, and I made a WMG a while back that AJ had been kidnapped. As for her gun - this is the Zombie Apocalypse, everybody has a weapon.

But again, it's perfectly valid to interpret that scene as them scouting for a larger group. I'm just saying it's hardly conclusive.

Javier's "just hold on" suggests that they're looking for a kidnap victim, at least to me.