Pokémon anime

That's because unlike Paul, Damien was just pure dick. He attempted to outright ignore the rules, sending well over 6 Pokemon in battle once, has zero respect for Pokemon at all that we ever see(even Paul did), and his expy, Shamus was no different(and also purposely lied to his Pokemon, something even Paul wouldn't do).

Paul does not fit anywhere near on the Villain scale. He's still a Hero in the story, just a really bad one. The fact he does actually care about his Pokemon and will praise them when they win speaks wonders. Also, Pokemon thievery is essentially the signifier of what is considered a Villain in the Anime. Being completely heartless also counts too. They don't necessarily have to be in combination with each other though. Paul was never a Villain(and can't qualify as one as he's considered on the overall Hero's side, storyline-wise. He actually is an Ally against the recurring Villains, Team Rocket)

But the Anime is nowhere near typical storytelling anyway. You can blame the fact that it doesn't directly follows the games either. Although to be fair, it's only Team "Whatever" that's always an overall Villain, even if some members aren't completely evil or can do good things.

He cares about his Pokémon only if they meet his standards for being strong, which judging by him releasing the Aerial Ace Starly even after it beat Ash's, must be really damn picky.

And if he judged performance on trainer and not Pokémon, he wouldn't have abandoned that Azumarill for getting 1-hit KO'd by Roark's Geodude.

And Karma is NOT simply losing to another Creator's Pet after half a dozen times of 1-upping Ash at every opportunity. He insults people and Pokémon, he calls friendship spoiling and weakness, he disregards emotions for efficiency, he ruins peace talks for the sake of gaining more power, he attacks the TRio in the middle of their motto, and he denies Barry any real semblance of strength.

But NOOOOOOOO, apparently Cynthia thinks he and Ash are in love, and so he's allowed to do anything he wants and Ash

edited 18th Nov '13 7:22:13 PM by Trollblade69

That's because unlike Paul, Damien was just pure dick. He attempted to outright ignore the rules, sending well over 6 Pokemon in battle once', has zero respect for Pokemon at all that we ever see(even Paul did), and his expy, Shamus was no different(and also purposely lied to his Pokemon, something even Paul wouldn't do).

Well that's true Damien was a total dick for what he did to Charmander (not to mention what Shamus did to Tepig). I remember that was what Kim, Kam, and Kum (A Terrible Trio that harassed Misty) did when they battled her. Their cheating eventually got them expelled from any official Pokemon League matches.

For all his attitude Paul could at least back up his strength and skill. Unlike those guys who were just petty bullies (Shamus even tried to make the kid he beat give him one of his pokemon). Besides Paul would never cheat as doing such a thing would be the weak thing to do.

I just remembered: when Charmander refused to return to Damien, he whipped out all his Poke Balls (which was well over six), he went all "I'll defeat you with every Pokemon I have" or something IIRC. Then Charmander roasted him.

edited 18th Nov '13 7:49:55 PM by WorldTurtle

Doesn't change that Paul is no Karma Houdini. He got hit hard for the crap he pulled. More than once. Every Champion is deadly powerful, as they should be anyway. That's why they're the Champion. The only one to not be ridiculously overpowered was Drake from the Orange Islands, and that's because they wanted Ash to win, which he barely did.

Triple Battles did come across later, notably. Also, 3 on 3 weren't that odd among the non-official battles. Double battles likewise later on. I think it was more the fact that they weren't upfront about it, meaning they specifically cheated to win. The only time we didn't see a Trainer expelled for cheating was during the final Gym battle in Kanto, but that's because Jessie was right, she does make the rules when acting as a Gym Leader. Cheap or not, any Gym can change the rules as they wish. That Gym may not be available though, but while she pulled off a dick move(and actually lost due to it, notably), she wasn't actually breaking any rules. We see similar cases with Whitney who allowed her Miltank to take on 3 of Ash's Pokemon.

It's different with Damien and the 3 Brothers. They broke set rules and had zero authority to do so. Mind you, everybody got punished for it when they were at an advantage or lost in some way. Whitney lost, despite this(albeit, she obviously had a disadvantage). Also, the Anime started the "special rules" for how many Pokemon go against each other in a Gym. Origins ignored that for the sake of game accuracy. I like the regular Anime's way of doing it, though. I find it more interesting that strategy is more taken into account than overpowering someone with more Pokemon.

never mind.

edited 18th Nov '13 7:53:41 PM by WorldTurtle

With Cynthia, it got offset by her saying he was a good trainer, plus she was trying to ship them.

With Brandon, he found refuge in essentially beating Ash with a club and blaming him for his failure to win.

She was shipping them? Beating Ash with a club and blaming him? Don't you think that might be pushing it a bit?

edited 18th Nov '13 7:58:14 PM by WorldTurtle

It might as well be shipping. She called Paul strong, then she saw them mutually yelling at each other, then she recited at them a random glyph about "FRIIIIIEENNNNDSHIIIIIIIP!!!!!" and said that they'd make great rivals. That's shipping in my book, if you compare that to Dawn and Zoey.

And Paul fighting the guy who never won against him in order to get his morale back up after a crushing loss to the guy who, to him, killed his brother is more or less like beating your dog after failing to get a job.

Yeah, that doesn't really sound correct at all.

Cynthia wants everyone to be the best, and she does try and make people(in the dub) respect everybody's training style, as long as it's not actually breaking the league rules. Abusive training, which we've seen in other seasons, was never against league rules.

Brandon very much is hard on Trainers, but he doesn't view them as worthless either. He clearly wants them to be the best, but really could show it better. And the only time he acts really jerkish towards Ash at best when he was possessed. He didn't really treat Paul any differently. Likewise, Paul was defeated badly by Brandon. Paul even found out that Ash beat Brandon, and did not take that well at all. Since that episode, he went downhill on the power scale(although it's been a while), and was pretty broken by the defeat.

While it's true Paul is a Creator's Pet, at least he has a backstory, something notable. It's what made him interesting as a guy you love to hate.(but there is a point when the hatred goes too far)

Let's stop overexaggerating a bit.

@Irene: You make Cynthia sound like an asshole. "There's no rule against Pokemon abuse, so it's perfectly okay! We need to respect all styles, even the ones that are borderline psychopathic."

edited 18th Nov '13 8:09:42 PM by doctrainAUM

Paul has a backstory, yeah, but it's still not much better. When your backstory can be summed up as "My brother turned into a wuss, so I'm gonna destroy everyone I see!", that's not really a good backstory.

She actually is that way in the Dub. Not an asshole, but she does want people to respect other styles. Even if some of the characters and the audience disagrees with it. Also, it's not like Paul was the first one. We had an old "Gym" back around in the Kanto Region, not the Fighting Gym, but a guy with a Sandshrew. He was also rough with the training, but gained full respect in the end. Abusive training was really not considered a giant issue in the League. Many times it's accepted. It was the abandoning of Pokemon that actually became a real issue.

Uh-huh. The fact he had one is still better than none. The fact he has tons of Pokemon that care for him(this is onscreen, no less, not implied due to how the show it in itself, that Pokemon are loyal) has a meaning there too.

That wasn't harsh. The guy and Sandshrew mutually wanted to be the best, so he had him work on the resilience with machines to help protect it and endure and weren't painful at all. He didn't go and tell his own Pokémon to beat on it Shawshank Redemption-style like Paul did.

Was definitely harsh. Was no less harsh when Team Rocket did the exact same thing. That was after the Sandshrew trainer, which is the worst part of it.

And so was Drew's training. And Paul's.

Paul didn't start the idea, and he was very much not the first. It happens quite a few times in the Anime's history, especially for specific rivals. And a few extras.

So in the games Shalour City is "the city of awakening". Like, as in, Mewtwo's Awakening, maybe? I don't expect the movie to be explicitly referenced, but it should be interesting to see what happens when Ash gets there.

And you may now get back to your regularly scheduled argument

edited 18th Nov '13 8:45:12 PM by yamiidenryuu

That'd be funny if they brought back the original Kanto Mewtwo and had it go into Mega Mewtwo X instead. And Ash teams up with it to take down Team Flare and/or Team Rocket, just because.

Speaking of Shalour City or more specifically Korrina and her Lucario. Going by the currently revealed XY episodes on Serebii, they're now back in Lumiose City. It's about crunch time for the first nail of the whole "Will Ash get her Lucario" debate to be decided seeing you meet them on Route 5 as you leave the city. So in the next coming episodes. Though there is still Geosenge Town and the Tower of Mastery.

Either way Korrina will likely be important in introducing Mega Evolution in the anime.

edited 18th Nov '13 8:53:49 PM by WorldTurtle

I do feel like bringing back the first Mewtwo to showcase X is more likely than either a third Mewtwo being created or Newtwo returning, for no real reason. Actually, I was expecting Mewtwo X to be showcased in Origins, to get the main anime out of it. (Mewtwo became a fighting type! Quick, Charizard, become a dragon and lose your type advantage!)

... Actually, unless they do introduce a third Mewtwo, MX is likely to be showcased in a movie rather than the main series, since the movies seem to be more in continuity with each other than with the series.

@Ash getting Lucario: I doubt it'll happen, and if it does I doubt it'll bo down exactly as it did in the games. The anime usually does its own thing.

edited 18th Nov '13 8:56:12 PM by yamiidenryuu

I think Korrina might show off Mega Lucario instead. Perhaps Ash could get Mega Mewtwo Y?

Also, yeah, I'd love to see Mega Mewtwo X in the regular Anime myself. Origins was odd about that. It's showing off Gen 1... and suddenly some of Gen VI's stuff. O_o I mean, it was cool to advertise the Mega Evolutions, and hey, Mewtwo having a full fight(that wasn't just quickly one-sided) was neat too. That is, outside of the movies. Also, he fought without the armor, another neat thing.

Why would Ash get a Mewtwo

Given that Mega Evolution seems to be rather more mysterious in the anime than the games, I'm not sure they'd give Korrina Mega Lucario right off the bat... Lucario being a recurring wild Pokemon might work, running around with its own mysterious designs, but then you're supposed to need a trainer for mega evolution... hmm.

Just saying, Mega Lucario showing up at the end of the XY OP was awesome. Actually the entire XY OP was pretty nice.

Anyways I'd prefer Ash bringing in Mega Heracross or Mega Charizard (X or Y) if he's getting a Mega Evoultion, but I wouldn't be against Mega Lucario though.

edited 18th Nov '13 9:05:25 PM by WorldTurtle

Not actually being its Trainer, teaming up with the first Mewtwo to fight some bad guys. They are friends in the regular Anime continuity.

Hell yes, Mega Heracross. This season might show off a lot more of his older Pokemon as well.

Especially seeing as the Kalos Dex is made up of 450+ Pokemon and only like 69 are new.

Having done the count (back when the Kalos Dex was being filled out by leakers and I was thinking those would be the ones to get Mega Evolutions-amongst Ash's Pokemon anyways) Ash has-not counting Pikachu-20 (even if he has released a few) Pokemon in the Kalos Dex. Butterfree, Pidgeot, Bulbasaur, Charizard, Squirtle, Tauros, Lapras, Snorlax, Heracross, Noctowl, Swellow, Corphish, Torkoal, Staraptor, Buizel, Gliscor, Gible, Scraggy, Boldore, and Krookodile.

Also honorary mentions for: Haunter and Larvitar. My apologies if I missed anyone.

In the end Ash only has Charizard and Heracross because his other three possibilities have remained in their basic stages.

Seeing as Blaziken got a Mega its only fair Sceptile gets ones as well. All the Starters really. If they ever do Ruby/Sapphire Remakes I hope Ash's Hoenn Team get Mega Evolutions. I can just see it, Mega Torkoal would be like a Walking Volcano version of Torterra. .

edited 18th Nov '13 10:02:27 PM by WorldTurtle

SPOILER ALERT On Serebii, New episodes have been revealed, from the images: XY 10 (12/12) looks to be the episode where Clemont gets Chespin, XY 11(12/19) has a duo of Pancham facing off against Chespin with the other pokemon looking on, XY 12(1/09) a Scatterbug is being freed from a cage, XY 13(1/16) a trainer with a Sylveon fights Ash and Froakie, and XY 14(1/30) Espurr. EDIT: Pangoro will be in the Pancham episode as well.

My money is on Scatterbug and Espurr for Serena

edited 18th Nov '13 10:38:34 PM by WorldTurtle

My money is Scatterbug being a one-shot. But Serena will definitely get Espurr.

And Mega Lucario isn't going with Ash. It's too popular a Pokémon to be in his team without threatening Pikachu's mascot status.