I don't know if I'd say Justice For All had a "main villain" in the same way that the phantom and Ga'ran casted their shadow over all the other cases of their respective games.
I'm not sure I'd call Morgan the "main villain" of Justice For All, considering that her actions become much more relevant in Trials and Tribulations.
Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jun 2nd 2023 at 4:22:03 AM
Edited by asterism on Jun 2nd 2023 at 12:12:15 PM
Song of the Sirens
Team Rocket Boss.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We're still in the dark times where Kristoph has his badge and Phoenix is a hobo piano player.
My other issue with Nayhuta is that while he's an asshole, it feels like that was accidental. Ema's always going on about how cool and sweet a guy he is, even when he's berating her to her face. It feels like he wasn't supposed to come off that bad, but they also write scenes like him giving Athena a panic attack.
With Godot, we know he's bad. Even the Judge, notable pushover, thinks he's too much. Much different vibes.
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
@Tobias Drake ...Not to be all "but ackshually"...but
I'm pretty sure that when Marvin Grossberg, he of the volcanic hemorrhoids, came back from the courthouse records with information on Armando's death during Mia's return-to-court trial, he says "It'll help clear up what happened to your boyfriend".
No, they weren't romantically involved before Mia's first trial, he's just a living HR nightmare, but it seems that afterwards, they had hooked up with each other.
It wasn't the whole pic, no, but I do think that was part of his enmity against Phoenix, that he accidentally helped Dahlia get away with her murder.
Deigo: Just now...I saw her [Mia's] spirit in you. ...I never liked you. Six years ago, you helped the woman who put me to sleep by hiding her bottle of poison. And then...while I was sleeping...you let Mia die.
A REAL MAN (TM) would have sworn himself immediately to Mia's service and never left her side, you see. But Phoenix wasn't in the room to throw himself in front of Redd White and overpower him with the force of his masculinity, therefore Mia's death was 100% Phoenix's fault. So Godot has sworn revenge against Phoenix for letting Mia die via insufficient machismo.
Yes, he was totally unfair and ridiculous in trying to blame Phoenix for not being in a situation he had no knowledge about. But, in some degree of fairness (to bloody who? I don't know why I'm saying this), it's more like he was trying to be mad at Phoenix, knowing that it wasn't Phoenix he was really angry at.
How do I put it? From the start, it was a deflection, putting the blame on Phoenix so as to avoid blaming himself for Mia's death. As he put himself, "I just couldn't face Mia's death head on, so I ran! I hid behind a mask. I threw away my true name. I couldn't even deal with being a defense attorney anymore, so I quit."
And then there's this asshole, Phoenix Wright. Who "didn't care." Who "kept living his pathetic, happy-go-lucky life". Who "even had the nerve to follow in her footsteps as a lawyer".
Who moved forward, even after the death of his mentor. Who lived the rest of his life as a defense attorney according to her teachings. Who had the spirit of Mia metaphorically living on in him.
Deigo: I did learn something today, however. I finally realized that I was the arrogant one. I was just...chasing an illusion, a fantasy. The stupid fantasy of defeating you in the courtroom. You were the one who made me realize my folly. You never ran away from Mia's death. Instead, you picked up where she left off, as a true defender of the people. In that one moment...I understood everything!
(You'll notice that neither this passage nor any other passages in this post really refute the "somebody should have been there to protect Mia" thing. Or Maya, really.)
Yeah, that's also a thing brought up in the last case: if Deigo actually wanted to protect Maya, he would have told somebody about it- at the very least, he would have told Phoenix that Maya's life was in danger. If Maya's safety was a priority, there were other methods then the counter-conspiracy he formed with Misty Fey. As he himself admits, it wasn't really for Maya as it was for himself. He let her be in danger so he could try to save her himself, try to wipe away the guilt of Mia's death...
Deigo: If I had really wanted to save you...then there's one person I should have gone and talked to right away.
Maya: Wh-who would that be? Are you talking about Nick?
Deigo: But I didn't do it. I tried to get the help of Iris and your mother but I closed my eyes to the most important man involved.
...And when he saw a black-haired Dahlia standing over Maya with a knife, even by the time he's confessing to the court, he didn't know, at the moment he stabbed her, if he was trying to save Maya as a way for making it up for not being there to help Mia or if he was taking his own revenge against Dahlia, the devil that murdered him.
(Hey, just because she's already dead, doesn't mean that getting stabbed with a sword and being foiled for the third time in a row can't hurt like a mo'fo.)
Deigo: Do you know why [he avoided asking Phoenix for help]? The real reason?
Maya: No...why?
Deigo: I suppose...I wasn't really interested in saving you at all. I think I was trying to salvage what's left of my own broken soul. I was trying to make up for the fact that I couldn't save Mia. Nothing more. That's why I let you walk into a situation that I knew was dangerous. [[...]]Was it really for Maya's sake...? Even I'm not sure anymore.
Otherwise. Yeah. Nothing else I can really say to that.
The Ace Attorney series is a personal example of "media you enjoyed when you were young and then you grew up and realized there was some problematic facets to it."
Edited by fredhot16 on Jun 2nd 2023 at 5:50:33 AM
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
I was fine with Godot’s personal flaws causing him to do something stupid, I think what bugs me is that it doesn’t entirely make sense. Like he tries to save Maya....by sending her to jail over a murder he committed? Maybe if he had admitted he just wanted to drag it out and have Phoenix fail to prove her innocence so he could be the hero that confesses to the crime and saves her, I’d buy it more.
I also personally didn’t understand why Maya specifically viewed him as a hero so much she was willing to take the fall for him. I mean, he murdered her long-lost mother and it was easily preventable! He was supposed to just hold her back and killed her out of anger.
"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
Weren't Miles and Franziska the prosecutors for that trial?
Song of the Sirens
resident girlfail
Uh, no. Fran's the prosecutor for D1, and then Godot for the rest of the trial, Edgeworth is the defense attorney for D1.
Yeah, Godot takes over after that, which is also right when Maya becomes the prime suspect.
"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
Weirdly enough, though, if you lose on the second day Iris is still declared guilty.
Team Rocket Boss.
Dual Destinies is the first to have multiple bad ends depending on where you lose in the final case.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
Possibly he emotionally manipulated her while she was recovering from being possessed by Dahlia.
Edited by Resileafs on Jun 2nd 2023 at 12:07:06 PM
Team Rocket Boss.
It was pretty cool to have Maya of all people be the final witness and the technical half of the final boss of the trilogy.
But yeah, I feel Godot did kind of emotionally manipulate her with the idea that he saved her life and she had to repay him somehow but he engineered the situation where her mom died. It's really fucked.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 3rd 2023 at 12:08:42 AM
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
I assumed Maya just didn't want to see her late sister's boyfriend to go to jail and was trying to protect him, even if he royally fucked up the Dahlia situation and killed Misty in a blind rage.
The bigger mystery is why Godot goes along with it considering how little he seems to care about his own fate, but it's been a while since I played that case so I might be forgetting the full details.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
He doesn't care about his fate, but he sure as shit does care about hurting Phoenix Wright.
I don't know if there was any time for Godot to try to school Maya into a particular state of mind or Maya to learn anything about Godot she didn't already know. Maya's testimony happened immediately after Dahlia was exorcised with no apparent break, and Kurain Mystics don't remember anything about what occurs while they're possessed.
So Maya had no idea what was going on or anything that had come to light in the meantime (and finding out who Godot was only happened after she already took the stand) - all she knew was that the last thing she saw Godot do was save her life from a knife wielding maniac. She was acting based on that.
As for why Godot insists on pushing Maya's guilt and subsequent testimony, it's implied it's because he's well aware that he's about to be implicated, and wants Phoenix to work to prove his guilt as part of his yadda yadda obsession with Phoenix proving he was a good enough person to have Mia's legacy or whatever, rather than simply let the situation go.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 3rd 2023 at 12:30:20 PM
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Yeah, that sounds about right, now that you refresh my memory.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
There actually was a recess break in between Dahlia's and Maya's testimonies. IIRC Maya was taken to the infirmary after passing out post-exorcism and says that Mia-channeled-by-Pearl fills her in on all the background then off screen.
Team Rocket Boss.
Makes you wonder how Maya reacted when she learned she defended a guy who killed her mom in a botched attempt at acting like a hero.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Considering how compassionate Maya can be, I would not be surprised if she wasn't as mad at him as some of the people here might have been had they been in her place.
Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jun 3rd 2023 at 10:27:34 AM
Also Misty disappeared when she was still, like, a baby
Song of the Sirens
I don't know if I mentioned this before, but one thing I really liked about The Great Ace Attorney is how it featured some character designs that were a bit more stylized, mostly with the British characters. It reminded me of Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, though that game had much more stylized character designs compared to The Great Ace Attorney.
While it will probably never happen, I would love to see another Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, if only to see what sort of bonkers twist they come up with.
Editor of Posts
Wasn't Mia in on the plan? Like she worked out the plan with Godot to sacrifice herself instead of just warning Maya because her guilt complex didn't let her talk to her.
You mean Misty, but yeah.
Everything in Godot's plan, including Misty being there, channeling Dahlia, and potentially getting killed as a result, were things Misty and Iris were in on and willing to go through should the need arise. The implication is that Misty and Iris considered it the Nuclear Option, though, and from the plan as we get told channeling Dahlia was like Plan C, and actually having to die - though something Misty was willing to do - was a worst case scenario.
However, Godot implies that deep down having the opportunity to "kill" Dahlia might have been Plan A for him - though he reveals that in a "maybe I was lying to myself all along" sort of way and he didn't have anything to do with the initial plan going off the rails (beyond setting up the incredibly irresponsible plan in the first place). Godot's kind of a mess of self-loathing, obsession and criss-crossing motivations.
She finds out during the testimony. IIRC, her reaction is to still see try to the best in him.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 3rd 2023 at 11:32:31 AM
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Who is the main villain for JFA? People say Matt because he's the culprit of the last case, but there really isn't a connected theme between the story chapters.
There's an argument for it being Morgan, or even Manfred posthumously.
Song of the Sirens