General Language Thread

I also have some disdain to using too much loanwords. Esecially when there are perfect words in the language for the relevant terms. It really irks me when people use the word "Random" itself instead of just "aleatorio" or "arbitrario". ^note Those words don't actually mean the same in Spanish, but they are mostly what people mean when they use "random."

And I am not sure how different the loanword culture is in Spain. I know that at least in Mexico and those just under its Sphere of incluence (like Central America), we have the stereotype of the "Niña Fresa". Imagine a Valley Girl. Teenage girl that is super annoying and disdainful of anyting not trendy. And of course, tend to sprinkle some English words in every sentence for the sake of it.

EDIT: Oh, nice. A pagetopper.

Edited by ElBuenCuate on Mar 22nd 2023 at 12:27:19 PM

Yeah, loanwords can get very ugly when they collide with a language's spelling rules, especially verbs.

I'm currently studying at the Alliance Française, and I assure you they are very nice and reasonable, and not stubborn or pompous at all. They are also fine with loan words. Then again, this is the Dutch branch of the AF.

It's funny. Aren't there loan words from English that were themselves originally loan words from some third language? That changed meaning when they were borrowed by another culture, then were borrowed back with the new meaning?

Yes! Absolutely! Sometimes they go back and forth. Sometimes a language will borrow a word, then, after some language changes, borrow the same word again with a different meaning. Sometimes people will change words to make them sound like other, more prestigious languages (this is where we get some of those odd English spellings from, like "island").

It amuses me that some purists like the French Academy (because of course) oppose the use of the word "générer" because it comes from the English "generate"… even though the word existed in Middle French and words like "régénérer", "dégénerer", "générateur" and "génération" are commonly used.

Yeah, which is why it amuses me when obvious loanwords turn up, because French is notorious for hating loan words.

I mean, unless you're in Quebec, where a quarter of what people say is just English with a French accent on it.

That's because only a vocal minority actually hates loanwords, and that minority is given undue prominence. Most French speakers are pretty open to loanwords, especially when no one suggests any decent native alternative before a loanword gets entrenched.

English, esp. American English, is often accused of sounding "ugly", but I don't know to what extent that's just bias.

Dutch has a similar reputation. It has been said by some that you can't write epic poetry like Homer's Odyssey in Dutch, though I feel that may be a bit of classicist bias (read Gorter's "Mei" sometime if you want to see what Dutch really is capable of). It probably comes with the reputation of being the language of bankers and businesspeople.

It doesn't help that a certain literary movement at the end of the 19th century has pretty much strangled the life out of popular poetry with a rather misguided ivory tower elitist approach to literature.

Also reminds me of how Scandinavians consider Danish as the ugly sibling in the family. "It’s not a language, it’s a throat condition".

But seriously, any language can sound beautiful when you master its rhythm and specificities.

Then there's the whole tendency for Americans to "verbalize" our nouns (see what I did there?). "Google that." "Let's Uber over there." We do a thing.

Some people object to that.

Yeah, especially prescriptivists, I imagine. As a descriptivist, I just find that a great and creative use of language.

You could say nothing’s more American than using billion-dollar company names as common verbs.

You could say it'svery... on-brand.

I have a British friend who is absolutely disgusted at my tendency to do this all the time. ; )

With Brand Names specifically, I suspect a big part of what causes it is that brand names are designed to be catchy and easy to remember. Generic terms are often comparatively boring, unwieldy, and technical.

This is especially true of the concept is heavily popularized by a single brand. For example, the throwing disc and Frisbee.

In the case of Google, it's the same deal. We need a term for searching things over the Internet, which usually involves Google.

So, what we need to readopt the more accurate terms is to split up those companies so one can't verb the nouns?

Google doesn't particularly like that either, mind you. It's poison for brands to become a commodity name.

I wasn’t even aware that Frisbee was a brand name until I saw a team Frisbee match on TV (yes, that’s a thing) where the commentator explained they couldn’t say the word because of that.

Speaking of names, in France we like to act outraged at those who don’t call chocolatines/pain au chocolat/couque au chocolat by the "right" name (which is "chocolatine", obviously).

What are the petty conflicts on regional naming conventions in your countries?

Frisbees and q-tips are prime examples of brand names turning into generic names, and it is the bane of brands. Imagine trying to market a frisbee called, well, Frisbee.

To the point where if a brand's name becomes the common-enough term for it, the name is no longer eligible for trademark.

In America, a famous shibboleth is what to call a sugary soft drink—the "soda"/"pop'/"coke" distinction has resulted in several maps.

Oh yeah, those maps are fun.

@Lyendith The Czech language has three words for bouncy ball (hopsakoule, hopík, hopskulka). We have funny time at University, when two groups adutl people argues about name of child toy and rest of room dont understend, becouse they dont know none of this two words.