Final Fantasy X

True. Wasn't that the real reason Yevon made Machina forbidden? So nobody could just build a gun big enough to just blow Sin to pieces?

On beating Penance: Indeed I have. It took forever. D: Should have just Zanmato'd the thing...

edited 8th Nov '10 11:14:13 AM by Darxzero

Wait, Zanmato actually works on it?

Yupyup. Tested it after beating him for the first time. Amusing. It's why I like to call it the easiest and hardest bonus boss in FF history.

edited 8th Nov '10 11:17:30 AM by Darxzero

It sure does!

I don't have the International Version, so I never fought Penance or the Dark Aeons.

How much gil do you have to give Yojimbo to get him to use Zanmato reliably?

True. Wasn't that the real reason Yevon made Machina forbidden? So nobody could just build a gun big enough to just blow Sin to pieces?

Among other things. It was a way of controlling the populace in general, by dictating what they could and could not do, and then if anyone asks why Sin keeps coming back, you could point to it and go, "Because you're not repenting HARD ENOUGH, you selfish bastard." And it lets them blame the Al Bhed for Sin's continued existence.

Information control, forced dependability on the nation, and a neat scapegoat all in one.

edited 8th Nov '10 11:22:45 AM by TobiasDrake

I forget... wasnt it Yevon making the Giant Space Whale keep coming back in the first place?

Yes. That was part of the system of control.

Yevon says Sin exists because of all the evil machines that people used. He's humanity's punishment for letting technology get out of hand. But don't worry. If you listen to Yevon and obey Yevon and do everything the way Yevon wants you to do it, then some day, Sin will be gone forever. You can trust Yevon. Yevon loves you and wants you to be free of Sin.

When actually Yevon is responsible for Sin existing and is using it to keep you in line. The entire thing, the Temples, the Summoners, the Maesters, Sin, even Yunalesca herself, is all one giant system of control.

edited 8th Nov '10 11:34:04 AM by TobiasDrake

No. The reason Machina was forbidden is because Yunalesca demanded it. Before the war with Bevelle, her people used machina for luxury and summoning for combat, and the latter proved inferior to Bevelle's machina weaponry.

So, to preserve her people and her culture, she offered a means for temporary reprieve from Sin . . . on the condition that summoning remain a revered practice, and machina be outright outlawed.

While it's true that the thing is one big system of control, Yunalesca is the mastermind of it all. Really, the Vicious Cycle has three big catalysts: Yevon/Sin, Yunalesca, and the Maesters.

edited 8th Nov '10 11:36:41 AM by KingZeal

Where'd Yevon even come from in the first place? I assume that they first showed up when Sin appeared 1000 years ago.

^^Was that why? I missed that.

edited 8th Nov '10 11:38:37 AM by TobiasDrake

Yevon was Zanarkand's king. When Bevelle was close to annihilating Zanarkand, he summoned Sin to preserve his kingdom forever.

EDIT: Yeah, nobody (not even Yunalesca) actually believed that Sin could be defeated. In her view, there was no point in trying to fight Sin with machina, because it was invincible. Thus, keeping her satisfied was the only way the Maesters could give the world a semblance of hope.

edited 8th Nov '10 11:41:06 AM by KingZeal

Ahhh, it makes sense now.

Back to Yojimbo: How much gil to get him to pull off Zanmato? I assume using Grand Summon makes it more likely.

EDIT: Y'know, I really hope the OP isn't reading this thread anymore, what with the rampant unmarked spoilers.

edited 8th Nov '10 11:52:57 AM by OmegaKross

^ Yojimbo's calculations are... complicated.

You know, while it's probably a weird thing to say, I honestly always thought that Tidus was the only FF protagonist I could really relate to. While his execution I guess was flawed, though I personally didn't have any real problems with him, I just thought his issues were more reasonable.

Well, at least compared to everything VII and onwards. Typical FF weirdness in regards to his true nature aside, I kind of felt for how he related to Jecht.

It's not weird. I felt exactly the same way.

Much of his childhood mirrored mine.

I don't get why people get so upset at Tidus. He's one of the few RPG protagonists who reacts to things like a real human being. Probably a little better, actually. Do people not appreciate a semblance of realism in their heroes?

edited 8th Nov '10 12:36:38 PM by Rebochan

^No.

"Then they all just basically wing it and succeed anyway. Of course, I realize the central point of the game is about fighting destiny, but ...."

This sounds more like 13, at least in 10 they made a plan with the Aeons.

No, they do not.

A girl I know who despises Final Fantasy X for that sole reason. She posits that realistic characters are boring because Humans Are Bastards.

Thinking on it, yeah, it's not really weird. I'm just so used to what appears to be a prevailing opinion that I'm supposed to be annoyed by Tidus.

And...well...I'm not.

Final Fantasy X was a game I liked a pretty good bit. Music was excellent, Spira seemed pretty well-realized (and what's more, looked pretty), and the story was reasonably solid, give or take a misfire or two. Plus it had Tidus, Jecht and Auron. I'm quite fond of all three. Shit, Yuna can hop on board too, she was alright.

The only flaws I can really see were that the game was reasonably bad at really giving the illusion of freedom (something which I'm not overly preoccupied with anyways), and that some of the characters seemed to be really reaching for a purpose. Lulu and Wakka probably needed more to do, and much as I'd like to give him a pass, Seymour seemed increasingly pointless the later they tried to have him be menacing, something which would've been fine if it didn't seem like I was supposed to take him seriously.

Oh, and I guess the dubbing could've been better. But to be totally honest, considering FFX was, like, one of the first things Square-Enix dubbed, I'm willing to give it a pass. Yuna was the only one whose voice acting really bothered me anyways.

edited 8th Nov '10 1:54:22 PM by DrPravd

^ Regarding his menace, I think Seymour would have been fine if he'd never become an Unsent. His role in the story was fulfilled the moment they completed "We just murdered a Maester of Yevon. Holy shit, guys."

After that, he just popped up here and there to pester the crew pointlessly.

If he'd had a bit more of a role besides in being a challenging boss in a few spots, I'd have liked him more. As it stands, he just had a few cool boss fights... actually, I quite liked all four of them, so I didn't really mind.

I'm pretty willing to accept the second time he showed up too, if only because I guess it made sense for him to survive and do his thing with the other Maesters around.

The third time though was stretching it (though I kinda liked how intense the Flux fight was), and by the fourth...

"Alright, we need to go stop the enormous menace to the world, and destroy Sin!"

"HAI GAIS I WILL BE YOUR BISHIE FOR THIS EVENING; don't suppose you're still up for that wife thing, eh?" 8D

"who're you again?"

I always thought Seymour felt superfluous - like they felt they needed to have a humanoid antagonist regardless of whether it meshed well with the story. The boss fights were interesting, but the character was weak.