Type-Moon: Fate/stay night, Tsukihime, and Kara no Kyoukai discussion

I don't mind Amakusa's plan being bad because of magibabble. I mind it because the story acts like it's inherently a bad thing. There's nothing mentioned about pruning or lostbelts, just that it's somehow not good to make everyone immortal or whatever.

Also for all the love Amakusa x Semiramis gets, they still decide it's the one canon relationship that doesn't follow through into FGO because they needed a new waifu.

Yeah, as it stood there wasn't a reason the heroes could give that made any real sense. I don't like resorting to Nasu's own universe mechanics to argue against it because Fantastic Aesop, but it as least would be something.

Edited by VeryMelon on Feb 13th 2021 at 9:22:40 AM

They have addressed the relationship in FGO. During the Enma-tei event, the little child servants ask Amakusa why he's escorting them to the inn instead of inviting Semiramis along. His response is that Semiramis wouldn't go along with anything like that if it's in the public eye.

Basically, Semiramis is being evasive about the relationship where anyone else could see it, but it's implied that there's still something going on when they're alone.

EDIT: As for Apocrypha, maybe some of this comes across clearer in the light novels? From what I've seen of discussions on Beasts Lair, the Apocrypha anime is kinda shaky as an adaptation of the novels and is prone to skimming or trimming off bits between the fights. But at the same time, the fan translators for the novels seem to have lost their drive to finish up Volume 5 (the final volume).

As for the discussion about the knock-off Grail Wars... what the Yggdmillennia leaked was the basis of how to make a Grail War, but these weakened Subspecies Grail Wars often couldn't operate with a full seven Servants. The smaller amount is enough to grant some smaller wishes, but without a full seven, one couldn't use these knockoffs to punch a hole through to the Root. Mind that the Association did not realize that the Fuyuki Grail had the potential to forge a path to the Root while it was in Fuyuki.

Anyway, there are a bunch of side-details we've been told in the Materials books about what happened to certain other people.

Apparently Waver and Kayneth got caught up in a knockoff Grail War somewhere, Kayneth still died, and Waver still took over as Lord El-Melloi II.

Zouken suffered a meltdown seeing the Fuyuki Grail be stolen, and so without him snooping around at the worst moment, Tokiomi stuck with his first option and turned to the Edelfelts to take Sakura in. She's now Luvia's tag-team partner, and the two of them will someday come into conflict with Rin, who is focusing on merging the family mage raft with martial arts.

Shirou is still living with his birth family since there was no Fuyuki Fire, and is described as being fairly similar to how he appears in the Capsule Servant side-game from the Hollow Ataraxia re-release.

Kiritsugu continues on being the Mage Killer, as he never got involved with the Eubzberbs and settled down. The Einzberns, for their part, are still pumping out homunculi, but show no signs of ever getting the total outlier of a result that was their ultimate creation in the FSN branch, Illyasviel.

The various Hassans originally dominate the lesser Grail Wars by eliminating Masters over fighting enemy Servants directly, but the few survivors would record details of the Hassan they fought, until eventually something like a 'Grail War wiki' was formed that included deets on every one of the Hassans. With the Hassans no longer having the mystery of 'what does this Hassan do?', the Hassan Boom came to an end.

In Greece, mages could never get a Grail War going because the mages themselves just killed each other over catalysts for Heracles, because getting the top hero of Greece summoned in Greece would make him so much stronger than he usually would be that victory would seemingly be assured. The conflicts got so bad that eventually someone had to come in and ban Heracles from Greek Grail Wars so that a Grail War could actually start... but now the mages are fighting over catalysts for Achilles. So there has never been a Holy Grail War in Greece.

There are more details - what I just listed are most of what I remember off the top of my head.

Edited by Tsuzurao on Feb 13th 2021 at 11:41:46 AM

Basically Semiramis is kind of a tsundere about the whole thing.

See, the part I'm questioning is how they managed to have this many of the knockoffs between WWII and whatever recent-ish year Apocrypha takes place in, given that kickstarting the Fuyuki grail took Zelretch showing up and it still has... what, 50-60 years between wars except in the case of 4 to 5?

Or how it's granting wishes in the first place, since the wish-granting aspect was relying on the Einzbern sorcery trait. Never mind that if you're copying that you could only make a wish with 4 Servants, which I'm not sure from memory is even enough to make the Fuyuki grail manifest, so that's got to be tiny...

What he seems to have shared is the most inefficient way of gathering a large amount of magical energy and getting magi killed.

big f for the translator who got addicted to way too many Chinese gacha games

Amakusa plan was bad, because immortality ain't shit, and it's wrong to force it on people.

Kind of?

That woman hates any display of public affection.

The Greater Grail needs decades to recharge only under certain circumstances. The cool-off period post 4th war was only ~10 years

So you just plug your whatever into some leylines and come back in a couple of years.

Those circumstances are "everything except the 4th grail war". They started it around 1790. The third war was in the 1940's. The fourth war was in the 90's. The only reason the 5th war was just a decade later is because Kiritsugu had the grail destroyed, which left it holding on to the accumulated energy and the much shorter recharge time.

Interesting summary of Case Files volumes 6 and 7, with info about Morgan, Gray's village plans, and one of Atlas weapons.

Has there been any word on an official translation of the Waver books?

No.

TM's had a consistent record of not officially translating their book series in English and the El-Melloi series hasn't really done anything to indicate they'll shift on that stance.

Why would anyone outside of Japan want anything that isn't anime or (some of) the games?

IIRC Gen also supported not localizing the Zero novels because he felt it wouldn’t be right to do so when the VN hadn’t been localized first

Jokes on him, Fate/Zero was localized in Brazil, with a very unprofessional quality.

You’re going to Brazil

lol, that sucks tho

@ Raineh Daze

I still think that one of the reasons some japanese media products don't get localised is because the authors don't want to import any controversy through Values Dissonance.

We've gotten Grand Order, the various anime, and Extra and its sequels (CCC being the exception.). Yes we haven't gotten the different manga either but there's no reason not to bring over the visual novel or the light novels. Especially the visual novel because if the anime adaptations sell you can bet people would want to be able to play the source material.

Yeah, that logic only holds for a completely new franchise. It's not like there's anything in Stay Night that would prohibit a localisation; Valve has shown complete indifference to porn games being sold with the actual porn in a patch elsewhere if you want to provide that, and even without the porn there's Realta Nua; so it's not like there's a lack of distribution possibilities for a VN (especially since Extella is on the damn thing). And it sells VN's fine.

There's no reason to expect that Fate-related non-anime non-games are going to do overall worse than other franchises that have been localised and outside of maybe CCC because it was on a console, there's nothing that would be impossible to sell.

i'm fairly confident that CCC is the only Fate work that would be nearly impossible to bring over/remake nowadays simply because of how absurdly horny the game is

like, that would NOT pass from a major developer nowadays.

at the very least type-moon seems to think so because they've officially stated there's no plans to remake it for that very reason

anything else is completely fair game and its a mystery why they aren't localizing more

Edited by EpicBleye on Feb 18th 2021 at 12:17:03 PM

It's not THAT horny.

Okay it IS that horny but why should that stop them?

Because it’s very, very, horny.

I don't see why being horny is a limitation if you don't publish it somewhere like a console where they would actually take note. If you're going to keep referencing the thing, commit to it.

Yeah, I agree. If you're going to keep taking elements from it, you can only go "just take our word for it" for so long without real exposure. Not good for investment.