Type-Moon: Fate/stay night, Tsukihime, and Kara no Kyoukai discussion

Huh.So Jackie just sliced his throat in this version,instead of ripping his jaw off.

Secret Signature

Huh, weird to think that it was only 13 years.

13 years since what?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Today's the release date of F/SN.

Huh. The same year I started university.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Apocrypha: I like Astolfo's style.

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!

It's weird to think I didn't discover this series until like five years after it released.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

I discovered it a couple years after Zero ended.

Either way congrats to the franchise for lasting this long & making it big.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

BTW, I skimmed the first 10 or so pages of that Apocrypha chapter, and the scene with Jack, Reika and Hyouma is a lot different than in the Act I: Unbirth short story. Reika shouldn't have even needed to interrogate Hyouma about the Holy Grail War; Servants are automatically given knowledge of how everything in the Holy Grail War works, minus certain important facts that Masters do not want the Servants to know lest they all turn upon them (e.g. that even the victorious Servant will be sacrificed to the Holy Grail to fuel the wishing mechanism to the fullest, meaning it's their Master who will be making the wish).

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Edit: Oh, you didn't mean Masters, but Servants.

edited 30th Jan '17 7:49:06 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

So Fate's 13 years old.... that's gonna totally mess with one of my friends: It's older than her brother is

Reika doesn't know Jack would know, so she just goes straight to the man who's guaranteed to know, and Jack, if her Master just wants to ask another instead of her, just will let it happen. It's as simple as that, really.

Also, Jack is insane and kind of, what? detached? a lot of the time. She's not a good source of information.

You do know that "insanity" is a rather nebulous term IRL, right? Putting aside all the technicalities that a psychiatrist may take issue with popular usage of the term, however, I'll assume that you mean "Ax-Crazy kind of insane", since that seems to be the most common definition in use... and note that Jack doesn't really act like a typical Ax-Crazy person. She acts normal and with decent self-control most of the time; she only goes psychopathically out of control if her designated "Mother" triggers her rejects her.

Jack appeared from seemingly nothing, and it involved Hyouma; the latter tried to kill her, while the former not only saved her life, but violently attacked her would-be killer in self-preservation. Reika has zero knowledge about what she's been dragged into; it's natural that she'd ask Jack if she knows anything, especially since she knows zilch about Jack anyway.

For the curious, here's a link to the short story.

---

BTW, another major discrepancy: In the short story, Jack didn't rip off Hyouma's lower jaw for evulz. She did it because he was about to active a Command Spell (which requires a verbal component) to force her into obedience. Whether or not she could've achieved the same result by cutting off his hand, I wouldn't know; I'd imagine that it would take a few moments for the mana link between Hyouma and the dismembered hand to properly cut off, which is a few moments too many for any rebellious Servant's liking when it comes to stopping a Command Spell before it even has a chance to start.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I wouldn't say Jack is insane but she is definitely not mentally well. For however long she lived, her life was just a literal shitstain of surviving in the worst slums of Britain with no form of parental figure guardian her. I'm surprised she lasted as long as she did.

Which makes her outfit all the more grosser cause she's most likely never even reached 10 years of age.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

I dunno about mana, but the order turning into "I command you toAAAAAAAARGH" should do the trick. Not that Jack's ever been one for efficient and painless attacks, anyway.

edited 30th Jan '17 9:12:08 AM by ExeloMinish

Actually, Jack's official height is only slightly shorter than Rin. So she likely got to late teens at the least.

edited 30th Jan '17 9:11:16 AM by BlackSunNocturne

I mean, Jack is not any particular child, but an amalgamation of the wrights of all the abandoned children of London, so a question of the age she died makes little sense.

Oh yeah, shes like Nursery Rhyme.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

I thought it was more that her body is supposed to be Jack the Ripper, but her mind is that gestalt amalgamation.

Marq: Okay, then she's a casual killer who wants to cut you up and crawl inside your womb, has disassociation issues, imprints on random people to be her mother whether they're male or female and a whole host of other issues involving warped values.

That sounds pretty insane to me. Why are you even arguing this? She's a giant ball of fetus ghosts, abandoned children and child prostitutes. Of course she's screwed up. And this has nothing to do with her being a terrible source of information anyway.

Slim: Of course she lasted as long as she did. Or at least parts of her did. Cause she is not a single distinct individual, at the very least not as her basis. And Nursery Rhyme is also kind of messed up, but less obviously so.

Black: Jack is like 130cm. That's only just over four feet tall.

edited 30th Jan '17 9:32:45 AM by Arha

Yeah, that's pretty similar to what my headcanon for her true nature was before that particular fact was revealed in the light novel: Sometime in the late 19th century, a London prostitute heartlessly dumped her newly born kid somewhere, and the child ended up an Orphanage of Fear run by a pretty vile heretic magus. Long story short, the kid snaps after about 4 years of horrific abuse and the orphanage burns down as a result, with the kid as the only survivor (one may assume the other orphans' deaths were seen as a Mercy Kill by said kid). The kid lives as a Street Urchin under very crapsacky conditions, and gets further abused on the few times she gets caught by lowlifes in one alley or the other. Then they finally happen across their mother by pure chance, whom they identify as such on an instinctive level... only for said mom to not only reject the kid, but try to kill them in a rage.

The kid is on the border between life and death when a loosely-consolidated gestalt of 80,000 ghosts of children who directly or indirectly died at the hands of their own mothers offer to essentially save the kid's life... if they allow a merger between them and the gestalt to happen and let the end result use the kid's body as a vessel for both venting their combined rage, sorrow, pain and all the other negative emotions they're feeling from their collective misfortune upon the world and, more importantly, attempting another chance at life.

The kid obviously accepts, but the process is anything but clean and orderly; the resulting individual is largely amnesiac, and even their physical sex might not have been the one they were born with. Oh, and the ungrateful mom died a grisly death at the hands of the newly merged child, who automatically went into brief episode of violent psychosis and lashed out at everything she percieved as a potential threat before calming down.

Your previous post says otherwise. To quote you...

Emphasis mine.

edited 30th Jan '17 9:44:04 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Wow dude that is like fucking awesome.

I am like clapping here cause that is like a fucking awesome backstory.

Good job, good job.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Arha: Jack's height seems to fluctuate between being 139 cm^note 4ft 6in or 150 cm^note 4ft 11in. Apocrypha's character entry for her says the latter, while Grand Order's is the former.

The latter is only slightly shorter than Rin (159 cm^note 5ft 2in). Also, her being really short doesn't stop her from being older. Like, no joke, my girlfriend is 4'10", and she's a couple months older than myself.

And I'm in agreement with slimcoder: Marq, I like your one better than the official version

edited 30th Jan '17 9:54:54 AM by BlackSunNocturne

Marq: I meant that the reasons I gave still aren't why she's a bad source of information. Jack doesn't care about the details of anything, so she'd be horrible at explaining anything if you could even impress upon her the need for information. You were arguing that she wasn't insane, which is absurd. The way you act like Jack is just a sympathetic little kid who wants a mommy is totally missing the point of the character. Yeah, she wants a mommy, but she doesn't care who it is and her ultimate goal is to cut them open and climb inside them to get back to the womb where she feels safe.

Black: She's a kid, she's the shorter height.