The Boss!?

Tell me if this should go in It Just Bugs Me! instead, I'm not sure if this belongs here.

Oh, also MASSIVE MGS 3 SPOILERS BELOW!

Anyway, to the point. I've seen many people referring to The Boss as if she is a legendary patriot who loved and served her country to her last breath. This just sort of bugs me, as that’s not at all how she puts herself across and is somewhat counter to the entire theme of the game.

I mean, what? Do people just choose to ignore that whole 13-or-so-minute confession at the end of the game where she and Snake face off in a field of white flowers? Where she explains how he and she are just pawns in the massive power-struggle between the squabbling arms of the Philosophers?

How she went in to space and saw the truth of truths: that there are no such things as borders and that the Cold War, the era's defining national conflict that not only spawned numerous proxy-wars the repercussions of which are still being felt today but also almost destroyed Human civilization on this planet was utterly meaningless and that all it has spawned, the Space and Missile Races in particular, are just arenas for meaningless national competition? How national conflict itself is an utterly meaningless and absurd exercise, and that the purpose of a soldier is to be nothing more than a tool to their governments, to be used by politicians to further their own ends? That there is no such thing as a true, absolute, timeless enemy because we are all at our most basic level Human beings who cannot be accurately reduced to a simple good-guy/bad-guy dichotomy? That she went along with the Philosopher's plan in order to acquire the Legacy for herself and further her own ideals using the Legacy's massive funds? That they took her father and her child from her, and forced her to kill her lover the Sorrow? That the Philosophers have become war incarnate? And that by consuming both her and Snake, the Philosophers intend to continue that cycle of war forever?

It bothers me so much because all of what she actually says is in fact anti-nationalistic! And that people miss the entire point of the game and the character of The Boss. It's pretty explicit, indeed it would not have been nearly as effective had the message been subtle, and it's one of the reasons I love the series so much. It was not only an extremely powerful moment, but a heartfelt one that encapsulated the message of the game. It's one that affected me personally, and people just seem to ignore this!

It was true that in the final recorded monologue by Eva, she praises and extols the actions of The Boss as those of a true patriot, explaining her entire role in the plot to acquire the Philosopher's Legacy for the American branch of the Patriots, but I can't assume that she told Eva what she told Snake before their final battle. Her true motivation. The entire Debriefing goes against the Boss’ own professed beliefs. Maybe that’s the point, that that was how Snake interpreted the Boss’ words (which influenced his later efforts to create an Outer Heaven where soldiers would always be needed and not manipulated by their governments) but why do people seem to selectively hear that part and not the speech that codified the meaning of the game?

Truth is, The Boss wasn’t a patriot. She was a visionary. An anti-nationalist in one of the most divisive and potentially destructive national conflicts ever to occur, in fact a product of it.

By the way, just how the blue Hell does the Shagohod render the concept of Nuclear Deterrence meaningless? The man point of nuclear deterrence is responding with massive force against an attack ensuring nuclear annihilation. The main draw the Shagohod is it's ability to deploy and launch a nuclear missile from anywhere operating solo. It doesn't really have anything to do with deterrence, because the doctrine of deterrence is not predicated upon the ability for the West to stop a nuclear strike, only that it can respond in kind.

You're exactly right. That's just how the american government in that game paints her at the end, since she died following their orders. Of course, Big Boss realises how hollow the word is. Also, I think maybe EVA was trying to soften the blow for Snake, and perhaps herself as well, when she went on about the boss being a true patriot. Plus, as you said, The Boss didn,t tell EVA her true feelings.

As for the Shagohod, I think the main thing was it could launch nukes right into the whitehouse if it wanted, and it could be moved. Dunno if that renders the concept of nuclear deterrance pointless, but it made a pretty cool boss, so meh.

edited 8th Nov '10 9:18:57 AM by OmegaKross

The capability to launch a nuclear warhead undetected could theoretically be used for a decapitation strike, i.e. taking out strategic targets to prevent retaliation - and the inevitable retaliatory strike is the whole point of deterrence. During the timeframe of Snake Eater that was somewhat viable despite the OTH radars already in place.

I suppose, though I'm not sure I get you. You're saying the Shagohod was meant to be sneaked on to the US mainland and then used to take out critical facilities before the US could react? If so, then why would it need the range-extending booster rockets? The Shagohod's a one-shot weapon too, so they would either need to bring a bunch of nukes and somehow load them on to the Shagohod after each launch or bring a whole bunch of Shagohod to the party in the first place.

^ The Shagohod was meant to launch from Groznyj Grad, which is why they had the huge runway used to accomodate the Rocket Boosters. Volgin wanted to mass-produce them using the Philosophers Legacy, which he would have deployed around the world and tried to, you guessed it, take over the world with[1].

[1] I haven't played MGS 3 for a while, so I don't remember if he wanted World Domination or not. I think he just wanted to turn the Cold War Hot, or some such terrible pun from Sokolov.

No, the air strip at Groznyj Grad was for general transport and air access. Besides, why not just construct a missile base there along with the facility? The point of the Shagohod was that it was mobile and all-terrain, that it could launch from virtually anywhere. Fields, highways, straight roads of sufficient length etc. Besides, the Shagohod's Archimedes Screws it uses for transport tore the shit out of the runway. Planes can't land or take off until it's repaired.

And yeah, his plan was to use the Legacy's funds to mass-produce and spread the Shagohod around, igniting the Cold War. For some reason. Not sure how he really benefits from all this. He's not being manipulated by the Philosophers, as he is aware of them and they are trying to get the Legacy from him.

But all that's somewhat off-topic. Anything about The Boss?

I think the Boss was supposed to represent the idealized version of what a soldier should be and fight for. Pity she couldn't live up to it, would've been interesting to see her try to fight back against the Patriots. Then again, maybe that's the real reason why she accepted the Virtuous Mission assignment - to see if the opposing side had a better alternative to what the Philosophers in America were doing.

As for Volgin? The guy's clearly outta his mind; he seriously thought that the whole idea of nuking the hell outta his enemies, despite the fact that there wouldn't be many survivors on his side either was a good idea.

The Boss is a deconstruction of the whole 'Patriotic American Soldier' idea. Snake himself as well. And yeah, it is pretty dumb how people always sum her up as a patriot, when she was really a pawn of a hugely corrupt government, and well aware of it at that.

About the Shagohod:

Before the invention of the nuclear submarine, nuclear warfare was deterred almost entirely by the prospect of Mutually-Assured-Destruction (MAD), because nuclear missiles could be detected far ahead of time before they struck and a counterattack was more than possible. However, nuclear subs cut down the amount of response time dramatically, especially for countries whose government or economical centres were less then 200 miles away from a coast (such as New York City or Washington, DC).

If the Shagohod is a nuclear tank capable of firing from any mobile terrain, that makes MAD even less effective, because it could be possible for Russia to, say, park one right outside of London and let 'er rip.

I don't think something that big would be able to get that close. But it could get pretty close. Or manage to blame a third world country... or frame the US for an attack on an ally ect.

edited 9th Nov '10 9:14:12 AM by Raso

Good points about The Boss. Although if I remember correctly, it was a necessary part of her plan to either continue the fight herself or have Snake continue in her name. Killing her was his assignment, and doing so would allow him to be an operator in the system, having done his mission. The problem I think was how Snake then interpreted The Boss' ideals.

That brings up another problem; either you just stick to what happened in MGS 3 as evidence, and interpret what both the Boss and EVA said from there, OR:

You include the rest of the canon as well for all the little extra nuggets of info. Problem is that it has become EXTREMELY convoluted to the point where even the Boss's reasoning has changed considerably.

It depends what you want to make out of her message. If you wanna believe that she was real Patriot who was used as an unfortunate pawn but still did her mission due to possible consequences of her failure, then stick to MGS 3's fluff. But if you want her to be a person who attempted to be a world-changer but got taken down by the CIA, who was fearful of her charisma, then there's Portable Ops and beyond.

Err... The discussion so far has sort of been about how the plot of MGS 3 keeps getting misinterpreted as a patriotic thing. I haven't played Portable Ops, but from what you say it sounds as if the wider story only serves to show that the Boss wasn't a patriot, but instead a revolutionary.

Or maybe she was simply a patriot with revolutionary ideas?

She died for her country despite believing what it was doing was wrong. How is that less than patriotic?

That's not patriotic, that's nonsensical. It goes completely counter to her stated goals. She died so that her disciple Naked Snake could take on her mission and work within the system to remove national boundaries. Due to the plan that the Americans devised after Volgin fired off the Davey Crockett, she had to die. That was the only way she could continue her mission, was to live on through Snake. If things had gone as planned during the Virtuous mission, the Legacy never would have left the Boss' hands. You can't reconcile a belief in the meaninglessness of national boundaries and yet still be a patriot. To such a person, patriotism is meaningless.

edited 19th Nov '10 6:28:37 AM by Gault